Segway pricing

[Arun]

I live in Paris. I am in touch with Keolis, distributors for Segway. They quote the prices highen than normal. I wanted to buy one i170 and they offer it to me a used one for the price of a new one. I aksed them if I can buy a new one. The answer I got was it will cost me more since they cannot sell me direct.
They did not give me the name of the place where I can buy a new i170. I was surprised to have such behaviour from the main distributor. Keolis people also told me that they can charge nay price they want to as there is no uniform pricing from Segway.
I wonder why the people in Europe are treated as second class citizen on earth. In US one can even rent it for $100 a month and it is not availabel in Europe.
WHY WHY WHY

[Sandmann]

Hello Arun,
same happend to me in Germany. The only reasonable price you can get, if you import one of your own. Like me, mine is just now in the air, flying from chicago to germany as cargo. Payment and shipping is no problem. The only thing you have to do is to have a closer look to this forum. There is the topic "Stuff to Buy & Sell". Contact these dealers and ask them for an reasonable price.

Sandmann, Segwayowner to be

[Kramer]

You should be able to buy new segways here:
http://www.segwayenfrance.com/

Kramer

[Segway City]

quote:I wonder why the people in Europe are treated as second class citizen on earthDo you really believe that? Nothing could be further from the truth. It suggests an inferiority or envy problem. Another mind lost to the product of propaganda. What arrogance, to speak for all of Europe! quote:.....and it is not availabel in Europe.Perhaps you should seek governance from your EU representative? ;) Or maybe, embrace capitalism and open your own distibutorship. Talk about cursing the darkness. Sheesh!

[woodenapple]

Is Keolis actually a distributer? I thought they were a partner with Segway for rentals only. Could that be why they offered to sell you one of their used ones?quote:In US one can even rent it for $100 a month and it is not availabel in Europe.
WHY WHY WHY I believe you would be lucky to find a segway to rent for $100 a DAY anywhere in the US. It would cost a LOT MORE than that for a month.

Rodney

May all your days be Segway days!

[Segway City]

Fact is, if I wanted to buy a Citroen, I'd have to pay whatever price a private importer asked, since they are not available in the US.

Or, I could contact a Citroen dealer in Europe, negotiate a price, pay in cash up front, pay an importer for shipping, pay import and export fees, then run the maze of regulatory issues with federal and state DOT officials (perhaps buy 2 so that one could be crash tested).

Or, I could complain that people in the US are "are treated as second class citizen on earth". That would be a WHOLE lot easier!


Sorry, this guy ticked me off in a way I normally reserve for predatory felons.....

[BruceWright]

I'm sorry, But Segway City, you are just being rude. They are obviously enthusiastic about the Segway. This person's not a troll, they're a frustrated customer.

And basically you are blaming him for all the politics of Europe. Put your freedom fries down and welcome the new Member of Segway Chat. Jeez.



-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[KSagal]

Back on point...

Arun, the issues brought up by you are more political than anything else. In a capitalistic, free market society like we have in the United States, the market, the want, if you will, is enough to create an item. If enough people want something to happen, it will. Money drives it, but not as much as desire. Many people here forget that the mindset in other places is different.

In truth, your complaint that you are saying is all over Europe, is with the socialist form of market that you live in. Unlike here, change is not readily accepted, and the difficulties that you are having in finding a segway at what you consider to be a reasonable price is because governments in Europe are very protectionist. They do not want or help free market forces, in fact they make every effort to crush them.

I would guess that there is not a single dealer here that would not want to sell you a segway for a good price. You would then have to endure the costs and efforts to bring it home, and get your government to allow you to use it. The problem is not on this side of the Atlantic.

You said yourself, in your post, that Keolis could not sell to you directly. This indicates to me that there is a communication gap in what you are calling "Segway's Main Distributor". They seem not to be a full dealer. There may not be one. If this is so, it is not because Segway does not want to sell in Europe, it would be because no one has gone thru the steps to get them authorized, or to get government approval, or something else on your side of the water...

You may or may not know that several of the parts, the Batteries come to mind, are made in France. The tires are from a french company as well.

Considering the horribly disrespectful way that France has been speaking about the United States, and the very different politics that our two countries have, it may be easier to get a helpful response if you don't start your comments with an accusitory, inaccurate complaint, but an honest and open question instead...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[KSagal]

And Segway City, why in the world would you want to buy a Citroen? That is just crazy talk!

Read Ann Coulter's book on how to speak to Arun.

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[ElectraGlide]

Hmmmmm....I dont have a new Segway to sell you , but I do have a French Army WWII rifle......it was never used and only dropped once !!!!

Steve

[matevzg]

quote:Originally posted by KSagal
In truth, your complaint that you are saying is all over Europe, is with the socialist form of market that you live in. Unlike here, change is not readily accepted, and the difficulties that you are having in finding a segway at what you consider to be a reasonable price is because governments in Europe are very protectionist. They do not want or help free market forces, in fact they make every effort to crush them.

This is just too narrow minded view to be taken seriously. I hope you wrote this in despair. It's just too funny to believe, that somebody here still thinks we are living on trees, peeling bananas.

Can you elaborate on your thesis about socialist market all over Europe?
Detailed description of crushing free market forces would also be very helpful.

Thanks.

Regards,
Matevz.

[florin]

Karl is unfortunately right, there is a big difference in mindset between the US and Europe.

In the US you can probably buy a segway almost everywhere, even in states where the Segway is not allowed. When the goverments really see that people are buying them, then they start thinking about laws.

In Europe it's a bit different. In most cases we will only have an official distributor/dealer when the Segway is (almost) legal in a country. Which makes sense, LLC probably doesn't want to waste money if there is not a possibility to sale them.

I'm not an expert in the situation in France, Arun please correct me if I write something wrong. I think that Keolis is a distributor, distributors normally only sell to dealers. And, that is the problem, stupid enough there are no official dealers in France. So, one option is indeed to become a dealer your self, which I think is not really usefull is you only want to have one segway. Or you can consider to buy one from the gray market. Or order one in the US, For the last option I can recommend you to take a look at the belgium website www.mysegway.be, although you might not understand Flamish, you will be able to find the contact information on the homepage (somewhere in the middle), he can help you to get a I model segway, via the offical way to europe for the price around 3810 euro (including vat, import taxes, shipping, etc).

Since you can't buy via Keolis, it doesn't really matter if you buy a segway via the gray market or with the help of www.mysegway.be. If there is something wrong, the segway needs to be send back to the factory.

I hope this helps you a bit further.

Kind regards,

Florin

P.S. Arun, don't believe everything what you hear about the US, there are a lot of good people there. When you will have your segway, you know that you can glide on it through paris without having the Police on your back. In New York (which is as far as I know a bit bigger then Paris), the segway is still not legal (read the other threads on this forum), so I think that the New Yorkers have more rights to be complaining :-)

Don't complain! Enjoy life, it's already short enough.


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[florin]

quote:Originally posted by Kramer

You should be able to buy new segways here:
http://www.segwayenfrance.com/

Kramer


I think this is the website of Keolis, I don't understand the language, but when you go to the contact page you see an e-mail address of someone at Keolis :(


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[pam]

OK, guys, let's keep the politics off the HT Discussion forum - you can start a topic in the OT forum, if you'd like.

I see we're getting lots of new European members, as Segway is now making it's move into the European market. Welcome, to all of you on the other side of the pond.

Since the HT is so new to the continent, it will take a while to get the kinks worked out, unfortunately. And even at that, I would anticipate that the HT will always be more expensive outside the US, just due to the costs of transportation. As mentioned earlier, it's more expensive for us to purchase a vehicle made in France or Italy or Spain. And if we buy it there, then we have to pay to import it. <sigh>

I do see the costs on the HT getting lower - I paid almost 5k for my i167, and it's less now. And I see them going down. But it will take time, and if you want a new one now, you are sure to be disappointed. Sorry.

Pam

Pam

[Kramer]

Hi florin,

they might be connected to Keolis, but they offer new segways,
which Arun was asking for.

Kramer

PS: After having a closer look to the website it looks like they
are not selling any new Segways until February 2005 - probably
waiting with their orders for the release of the new models.

[Stewbonz]

You have to consider shipping and taxes. That makes a Segway more expensive.
I don't know the import costs in France but a new Segway here costs almost $9,000.


JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/

[SegwayUtah]

quote:Originally posted by pam

As mentioned earlier, it's more expensive for us to purchase a vehicle made in France or Italy or Spain. And if we buy it there, then we have to pay to import it.

True, true. It's funny that we buy so many cars made in Japan and Korea at low prices here in the states though . . .

As Segway expands internationally, I expect the price to go down dramatically in those nations.

Chris

[FusionMag]

quote:Originally posted by ElectraGlide

Hmmmmm....I dont have a new Segway to sell you , but I do have a French Army WWII rifle......it was never used and only dropped once !!!!

Steve


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I laughed so much when I read this... too good.

AJ

[Itsi Atkins]

Anyknow where you can find a complete price list for LLC parts.

[Segway City]

One man's gospel is another man's antagonist. This post hit a nerve with me, I take his language as that of a provocateur and answered as such. Perhaps it was wrong, but I will provide recourse in that event.

Arun, if you genuinely want a Segway, contact me directly through email and I will broker a new i170 from our local dealer for their best price, probably quite reasonable at today's exchange rate of Euros to dollars. Alternatively, I will sell you a used one for a very reasonable price and ship it immediately. Either way, you'll be responsible for shipping and import fees.

There is noone who will just give you what you want, you have to make it happen. Don't blame others for what you don't have, you have to be proactive and take steps to reach your goal.

We are here to assist you in a valid quest, but others (such as myself) will take affront at becoming international whipping boys.

That should separate the wheat from the chaff.

[KSagal]

Matevzg,

I was simply commenting on Arun's comment. He was the one that commented on Europe as one entity. I am glad that you feel differently.

Others in European countries understood what I was saying. I took great effort not to insult. I wish you had done the same.

I will follow the wishes of the moderator and not get political, and will also take effort to not get nasty.

I do wish everyone that wants a segway to have the opportunity to buy one. If they don't have that, it is not my fault, and I will not be chastised for it.

Segway City made a great offer above. I also agree with him, I too will not take the whip for what is not my responsiblility.



Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[matevzg]

quote:Originally posted by KSagal

Matevzg,

I was simply commenting on Arun's comment. He was the one that commented on Europe as one entity. I am glad that you feel differently.

Others in European countries understood what I was saying. I took great effort not to insult. I wish you had done the same.

I will follow the wishes of the moderator and not get political, and will also take effort to not get nasty.

I do wish everyone that wants a segway to have the opportunity to buy one. If they don't have that, it is not my fault, and I will not be chastised for it.

Segway City made a great offer above. I also agree with him, I too will not take the whip for what is not my responsiblility.



Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.


Karl,

I understand your position and agree with the fact that Segway related business in EU is way behind the US.

However, generalization about the presence of socialist market forces in Europe is just too funny for me to swallow.

I also consider this issue closed.

Pam,

Why don't my posts show a logo of being a Segway owner, inspite the fact that I have a 'Yes' selected in my profile?

Regards,
Matevz.

[pam]

Matevz, I don't know. I don't do the "back door" stuff in the software, some of the other moderators do. Maybe something has gotten "unhooked." I'm sure one of them will see your post and try to address it.
Pam

[tomamil]

This Board seems to have become something of a hangout for rightwing crackpots. I begin to understand why discussion of the societal implications of the Segway seems to have dried up -- and why any criticism of LLC produces such a storm of indignation.

Oh well, have fun on your Centaurs, guys -- truly a rich man's toy!

Tom A. Milstein

Segways should be everywhere by now!

[pam]

Oh, are you leaving, Tom? As a gentle reminder to everyone, we do have a rule on the board re: civility - which, of course, includes not calling others names. There's plenty to talk about without making it personal.
Thanks,
Pam

[rethin]

Tom does have a point.

And without making it personal at all...

It would be nice to keep the politics out of the discussions. Its hardly a nice way to retain new members members when we fire an Ann Coulter broadside right in their face.

Yeah off topic and bound to ruffle some feathers. But it needs to be said.
I wish this board was a little more inclusive, thats all.

Rethin

[rethin]

quote:Originally posted by SegwayUtah
True, true. It's funny that we buy so many cars made in Japan and Korea at low prices here in the states though . . .

As Segway expands internationally, I expect the price to go down dramatically in those nations.

Chris


I think there are lots of reasons for cheap asian cars in the US. Originally it was the very low Yen (changed in the mid 80's) that allow Japan to import so cheaply.

Now my understanding is that most Toyotas sold in America are made in America. And that they stay competitive on price to do very advanced inventory control and other management techniques. (Which US manufacturs copied very effectivly in the 90's think Dell and Walmart).

I wonder if Segway will outsource their manufacturing to cheaper locations such as the pacific rim in the same manner as Apple does. Keeping the design and engineering at home. But I suspect their suppliers already do most of that and the manufacturing that segway does is just final assembly.

Rethin

BTW I'm not an econmist in any way, so someone who knows what they are talking about feel free to correct me :-)

[rethin]

quote:Originally posted by Arun
I wonder why the people in Europe are treated as second class citizen on earth. In US one can even rent it for $100 a month and it is not availabel in Europe.
WHY WHY WHY


By second class citizen do you mean that you can't buy a segway, therfore you are treated badly?

My understanding is that its a case of regonal markets, not preferencial treatment.

For example I live in Japan. I can get all sorts of neat gadgets way ahead (if they get them at all) of the US market. But I can't buy a Palm Treo or even a Segway cause they are made by US companies and released first in the US.
As you live in Europe you can buy Nokia handsets not released in the US. Or even as someone pointed out a Citreon. (I don't live in Europe so I'm streching for a few examples here).

Believe me, I understand your frustration. There are two gadgets I really want. A segway and a treo and I can't buy em here (at least not readily).

Slowly but surely globalization is changing this (for better or worse you decide).

Rethin

[Hauptagon]

quote:Originally posted by tomamil

This Board seems to have become something of a hangout for rightwing crackpots. I begin to understand why discussion of the societal implications of the Segway seems to have dried up -- and why any criticism of LLC produces such a storm of indignation.

Oh well, have fun on your Centaurs, guys -- truly a rich man's toy!

Tom A. Milstein

Segways should be everywhere by now!


You nailed it!

-Justin

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -From Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

[KSagal]

I'm a conservative, yes, I'm guilty.

Why is it okay for us to be accused of treating all Europeans as second class citizens, but crackpotism to defend ourselves from accusations that indicate we are responsible for the rude behavior of employees of Keolis?

I spoke my mind, but was responding to someone. I am really not trying to pick a fight, but neither am I laying down to be trod upon.

I did speak of my political assesment of the situation, but I also refrained from calling names and ad homonym attacks.

I also made a generalization in my response. The generalization was in the original post but that is no excuse, and matevz called me on it. I aggreed that it was over generalized, but my point remains. He doesn't agree, but did not attack me, but the point I made.

We don't need to attack eachother. I will continue to state my opinions and back them up with the facts that I know. I will also attempt to not make personal attacks.

It is not my place to dictate how others act, so I will not. I will just act as I see fit, and possibly continue to be attacked personally for my positions. It is the risk we all take.


Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[fredkap]

The high prices that the Seg is sold in many places is due to the VAT (Valued Added Tax) which when discussed for the USA is known as a national sales tax. There has been much discussion regarding reducing the "unfair" income taxes in the US and largely replacing it with a VAT. Many people point out that the VAT encourages saving and discourages wasteful spending. This has been pushed by Republican not Democrat leaders in the US, so any discussion implying Europe's use of a VAT is socialism is way off the mark. Democrats point to the regressive nature of the VAT while Republicans bemoan the current income tax laws.

My point is that the differences are caused by different nations raising taxes in different fashions. The US under the current administration may switch our policies to be more similar to the rest of the world so that there is a level playing field. Governments need taxes and nobody is ever perfectly happy in the way the tax burden is parsed out. If people think that people cheat on income taxes, guess what happens regarding the VAT.

Fred

[pam]

Now that Karl has explained himself and Fred has so clearly explained the difference between the VAT and income taxes and how they affect the retail process across countries (thanks, Fred), let's please keep ALL the political persuasions and comments to the off-topic area. They're not needed in the HT discussion area and tend to disintegrate quickly into dissention, as we've seen in this thread.
Thanks,
Pam