All is not well

[hhaurgon]

I don't want to paint a picture of doom and gloom after the holidays, but I thought I would share this anyway. Apparently, things are getting a little tight around LLC, as I heard through the grapevine that there were some more layoffs recently.

I don't know any specifics, but it seems that sales for 2004 were well below expectations and they are rushing to get the new models out to try to generate some interest.

I guess the Sam's Club experiment was less than successful.

Does anyone else have any additional information?

Hugh

[macgeek]

Hugh, My friend
get ready to be attacked.

People only want to hear how wonderful life is.
otherwise the claws come out.

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Proud Segway NY member
www.segwaynyny.com

[hhaurgon]

I know, I know. But, I thought everyone would like to be informed. I'm just trying to share, not cause trouble.

Peace.

Hugh

[Segway City]

Why should LLC's house be any different from my own?

Belt tightening, layoffs, poor sales and a rush to hopefully expand a place in a created market have been the norm here for over a year. That doesn't mean a complete shutdown of operations, just a regularly scheduled reality check and adjustment to continue the quest for the golden ring.

Actually, at this point. I'd be well satisfied with an aluminum ring. I'm sure LLC's got the same attitude.

[GadgetmanKen]

Perhaps it could also be a seasonal layoff. Not to many willing to wait till spring to ride their new Segway. It is winter in most of the country. You know extremely cool and wet and gloomy. LLC may not have the space to store surplus inventory at daily rate to wait till sales in spring to pick up again, I think.

"Wouldn't it be cool, if?...is like Folgers in my cup"

[Stewbonz]

I imagine it's seasonal.
Do watercraft companies keep a full crew during the off season?

JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/

[X-man]

as I heard through the grapevine
Who do you think you are, the reincarnation of Marvin Gaye?


Bob

[rethin]

quote:Originally posted by Stewbonz

I imagine it's seasonal.
Do watercraft companies keep a full crew during the off season?

JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/


Apperently yes.

"[at Polaris] layoffs are nearly unheard of."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_46/b3908071_mz056.htm

Rethin

[driley]

quote:Originally posted by rethin

quote:Originally posted by Stewbonz

I imagine it's seasonal.
Do watercraft companies keep a full crew during the off season?

JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/


Apperently yes.

"[at Polaris] layoffs are nearly unheard of."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_46/b3908071_mz056.htm

Rethin



Maybe the snowmobile and ATV business have something to do with that.

[KSagal]

Ever notice that english is not the same everywhere?
When reading an ad for real estate, a cosy kitchen in a quaint cottage means a tiny non-updated kitchen in a run-down shack that hasn't seen maintenance in many years.

"As I heard through the Grapevine", even if I give it the benefit of my doubts means, "My friend that doesn't like Segway says, and even though I don't have any way to confirm, I choose to believe, and therefore come to the following conclusions, and the lack of confirmation doesn't bother me at all."

I'll not comment on the conclusions that have been reached, as I do not know any facts. Hugh very well may be right, though I have absolutely no reason to think that way.

I get the impression that some here could find one slice of pepperoni in a dumpster behind a strip mall, and from that conclude the pizza parlour in the mall was going out of business. Why else would they throw away food?

I happen to know that the pepperoni was from the sandwich that the dentist's wife packed for her nephew when he was helping her paint the waiting room. Unfortunately, this information didn't get into the grapevine...

Who knows? Not I. But as was stated earlier in this thread, I would prefer to believe the positive rather than the negative. I am a glass half full type guy, instead of a "Who's been stealing my Beer?" kind of guy.



Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[wwhopper]

Slow sales - you sure could have fooled me - both of our local Segway Dealers are working their tails off delivering units.

I was in 2 dealerships in the past 2 days - and amazed at the amount of interest and (really amazed) at the amount of stock gliding out the door!

Will W Hopper,IFDA
Taxation Without Representation here in:
Washington, DC, USA

[IndyFIRSTengineer]

quote:Originally posted by macgeek

... get ready to be attacked...Well not so much for the content, but the way it is delivered ...quote:Originally posted by hhaurgon

... Apparently ...
... as I heard through the grapevine ...
... I don't know any specifics, but it seems that ...The problem in my mind is, if you are not willing to substantiate your speculation then why say anything at all. I'm afraid I'm with Karl on this one ...

Stuart Bloom - Rolls-Royce Corporation
FIRST Team 1018 - Pike High School "RoboDevils"

“Who goes out and says, ‘You have a better probability of winning the state lottery than making a nickel in professional sports. And by the way, last year two million exciting technical jobs went unfilled in this country because you weren't there to take that job. And it pays you 10 times as much as flipping burgers, and it's fun and it's exciting and you get to create things and build things and help make the world a better place and help make yourself a better living.’ Who tells them this?”
Dean Kamen, founder - FIRST Robotics

[rethin]

quote:Originally posted by driley

quote:Originally posted by rethin
Apperently yes.

"[at Polaris] layoffs are nearly unheard of."
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_46/b3908071_mz056.htm

Rethin



Maybe the snowmobile and ATV business have something to do with that.


Good point

Rethin

[muckle]

>> if you are not willing to substantiate your speculation then why say anything at all. <<

Look, either what he heard is true or not. We'll find out eventually - and then you can either praise his accuracy or condemn his misinformation. But I appreciate when folks tell us when they hear stuff - good or bad.

[KSagal]

I actually agree with Muckle.

Even rumor and speculation have value, there is no reason to not post it here. My complaints are the conclusions that are stated as self evident or obvious when they are subjecive instead.

With regard to seasonal adjustments in many companies, it is a reality. Polaris may be able to compensate with products for all seasons, but most companies do not.

Manufacturers have different time schedules than the calendar anyway. It is reasonable for jet ski compaines to have layoffs in summer, if they need a six month lead time to make a ski, working like crazy in july or august may make machines available for winter...

I do not know about the time frames for Segway LLC, but I have observed over many years many different seasons in the workforce. I spent much of my youth at marinas on the ocean. In winter, a great deal of work is done on boats, but when it is cold, marinas are ghost towns.

I know of the restaurant industry. People eat all year long, but each restaurant has definate seasons. Even supermarkets have seasonal employees, why would any company not be effected by this consideration.

That all having been said, I do not know the situation at LLC. I hope all is well. If it is or not however, I do not see how perdicting doom is helping any situation. There is a world of difference between saying, "I heard something about layoffs, I hope all is well but fear not," and "I have it on good authority that I will not verify or share with you that LLC is laying off people and that their sales on this are therefore bad and their marketing on that is therefore bad, and they have therefore changed their Research and Development schedual to accomodate my unfounded predictions..."


Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[JohnM]

All is not well? What's the news here? When have sales ever approached expectations?



JohnM
If riding 2 hours is fun, then riding 20 hours is 10 times more fun.
RUSA #235

[GyroGo]

Myabee I was two drunk but i thaught I only took a swig, not half the mug. when I came bak frum da Men's room, my beer was half full. Now i'm not complaining about my beer, love my beer, but if I wanna know why it seems half empty its not cause i think someone stole my beer or dat I don't like the joint, the bartender, the beer, or the company I'm with. I'm purrfectually happy wit my 1/2 full beer, but wut da frick happened to my other hapff???

maybe i really dont wanna know.

[GyroGo]

btw, the pepperoni from the dentist's wife's nephew's sandwich while he was painting the waiting room was in yesterday's garbage. THAT pepperoni was planted there by a corporate espionage agent from a competing pizza parlor chain purposely to confuse the people who pick pepperoni from such places.

later.

[hhaurgon]

As usual, I have no idea what Karl is talking about. Pepperoni...dentist...restaurants?

Anyway, I would rather not go into specifics on where I heard the info, so take it as rumor if you like. As for my original post, I don't recall bashing LLC's plans or marketing.

Also, I don't think the seasonal layoff theory applies to engineers and other salaried employees. It is my understanding that many of their production people are already temp, so I don't think that they would be subject to a "layoff".

Hugh

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by hhaurgon

It is my understanding that many of their production people are already temp, so I don't think that they would be subject to a "layoff".

Yes, I've heard this locally, that most production work is by second-shift temps (with few or no benefits) on an 'on demand' basis.

JohnM
If riding 2 hours is fun, then riding 20 hours is 10 times more fun.
RUSA #235

[rethin]

quote:Originally posted by hhaurgon
Also, I don't think the seasonal layoff theory applies to engineers and other salaried employees. It is my understanding that many of their production people are already temp, so I don't think that they would be subject to a "layoff".

Hugh


Actually I missed that point at the beginning. I just assumed it was production line workers getting the pink slip.

But if you're saying that the engineers are getting the ax. That's a little bit different.

I know you said you don't want to get into specifics here but man, talk about a tease. This is some juicy stuff from the inside of the company. A little more detail can go a long way to giving it some more credibilty.

But anyway, I do appreciate you sharing what you have. Half a bone is better than none. :-)

Rethin

[hhaurgon]

I don't intend to tease, but I would like to still get some info in the future - you know how that goes. It will be a while, but eventually you will get the whole bone.

Hugh

[Itsi Atkins]

The auto shows and a deal with any one of the major automoblile manufacturers could turn LLC around. Imagine, an SUV with an option to have a p model segway tucked in the trunk next to the spare tire. Yes, a spare tire for the human, great for going for the a gallon of gas or an off road exploration. LLC can learn from Apple, Steve Jobs, may surrender to the sub $500. Mac according to several published reports.

[rethin]

quote:Originally posted by hhaurgon

I don't intend to tease, but I would like to still get some info in the future - you know how that goes. It will be a while, but eventually you will get the whole bone.

Hugh


Thanks Hugh

Rethin

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by Itsi Atkins

The auto shows and a deal with any one of the major automoblile manufacturers could turn LLC around. Imagine, an SUV with an option to have a p model segway tucked in the trunk next to the spare tire. Yes, a spare tire for the human, great for going for the a gallon of gas or an off road exploration. LLC can learn from Apple, Steve Jobs, may surrender to the sub $500. Mac according to several published reports.

What a novel idea! Just imagine....... ;)

http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/03march/hummer_h2_bike2.jpg
http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/03march/hummer_h2_bike.asp

JohnM
If riding 2 hours is fun, then riding 20 hours is 10 times more fun.
RUSA #235

[BJ]

What about sales that we don't hear about direct from LLC to large companies, warehouses, universities, govt agencies etc etc.
Surly the leisure market, like ourselves is only about 30%
of total sales, or am I way off the mark???

[L7]

The last time I went to the local dealer, they had 4 ripped off serial number labels under each day on a calendar, so if sales are slow they must be the only one keeping LLC in business.

[Itsi Atkins]

The Centaur that really is available go to: http://www.bandiziol.it/centaur.html

[macgeek]

WOW! - did you see that thing pop a wheelie???
How do they do THAT!!!!

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Proud Segway NY member
www.segwaynyny.com

[Stan671]

Actually, the Segway Centaur is only the development/concept name - kind of like Ginger was for the HT. If Centaur does become a product, Segway would change the name.

Stan Dobrowski