Segway CEO Resigns [Archive]

muckle

11-20-2004, 11:36 AM

So it's pretty much a new CEO every year.

Even the most die-hard Kool-Aid drinkers would now have to admit that the way Dean was portrayed in Codename: Ginger SEEMS to be proving true. At least in his inability to let anyone manage LLC without interference.

And his utter contempt of marketing.

But then, if these are true, why wouldn't the other ways be true too?

Perhaps the book-trashers could respond? Or am I reading too much into the CEO revolving door?

pam

11-20-2004, 03:42 PM

You may well be reading too much into it, since none of us know anything about why any of these people are no longer with Segway. You are certainly wrong in your assessment of Dean's reaction to marketing. I don't see why you can't be wrong in the rest of it, too.
Pam in Niceville

Itsi Atkins

11-20-2004, 11:40 PM

New York Times Sunday Nov. 21, 2004 Business Section has a 4"x4' photo of Ron Bills standing on the Segway. Under the photo, "Rolling out, Ron Bills chief executive and president of Segway, maker of the Human Transporter, the self-balancing scooter that looks like a lawn mower, will resign his position in mid-December, Segway said.

The problem with the photo is that a large misleading headline on the left side of the photo, "Some Executives Can't Take a Hint". This misleading text is about the dispute of Eisner and Orvitz at Disney and is no way connected to Ron Bills. Very poor copy placement.

Hauptagon

11-20-2004, 11:56 PM

LOOKS LIKE A LAWNMOWER?

Excuse me while I go trim the grass...

-Justin

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -From Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

muckle

11-21-2004, 06:04 AM

Pam, whatever the reasons for the ex-CEOs no longer being with Segway, it's not a good thing for a young company to have such instability at the top.

You may well be right about me reading too much into it, but you'll have to admit that it really doesn't look good. And public perception is very important for Seg right now.

Of course, just my two cents...

pam

11-21-2004, 08:07 AM

Muckle, I don't *have to admit* it doesn't look good. I will admit it doesn't look good to you - and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.
Pam

Brooster

11-21-2004, 10:51 AM

Four CEOs in four years certainly doesn't look good to me either. I want very badly to see the Seg succeed, but these aren't good stats.

With each new CEO, we have renewed hopes that things will actually happen. We hope for passion, innovation, marketing, vision, communication, PR, advertising, increased sales, all kinds of stuff.

One good thing Ron Bills did ... is that he really understood the need to get dealers open, and he did get a bunch of them opened in a relatively short time. Why that couldn't have been started a year earlier, I don't know.

LLC fans are kinda like Chicago Cubs fans ... "Just wait'll next year!" :)

My 2¢

Brooster

JohnM

11-21-2004, 11:09 AM

Muckle,
You have to admit that this is a great thing for Segway LLC. It shows that there is a waiting list of quality executives eager for the chance to take the helm of this exciting new venture. And, that in a show of fairness, the LLC is giving each one a limited opportunity to play a part in the historic early years of the company. What a bunch of swell guys. It's such an exciting time to be living in New Hampshire!

Play nice, everyone. There's at least two sides to every story.

JohnM
If riding 2 hours is fun, then riding 20 hours is 10 times more fun.
RUSA #235

JohnM

11-21-2004, 11:16 AM

quote:Originally posted by Brooster

LLC fans are kinda like Chicago Cubs fans ... "Just wait'll next year!" :)

No, more like Boston Red Sox fans. Curses can be broken.
(Just feeling argumentative this morning.)

JohnM
If riding 2 hours is fun, then riding 20 hours is 10 times more fun.
RUSA #235

fredkap

11-21-2004, 11:44 AM

I agree with John on this one. Let's just chill and let the Board of Directors fulfill their obligations on this one. I wish Ron well but I will support the Board.

From a recent press release:
Myron (Mike) "Ullman joins a well-respected group of entrepreneurs and business leaders currently on Segway's Board of Directors including: Paul A. Allaire, former chairman and CEO, Xerox Corporation; L. John Doerr, partner, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers; Dean Kamen, founder and chairman, Segway LLC and president, DEKA Research & Development, Corp.; Vernon R. Loucks Jr., former chairman and CEO, Baxter International, Inc.; Michael Schmertzler, co-head and chairman of the Investment Committee, Credit Suisse First Boston Equity Partners, L.P.; and Robert Tuttle, executive vice president, DEKA Research & Development, Corp."

These guys are all major hitters and know what they are doing and most of us would fully trust Doug Field to steer the company as well.

Fred

wayne

11-21-2004, 04:22 PM

If this door keeps revolving then maybe LLC should just say that Dean is the CEO and leave it at that. He can always give the job to someone else but just don't put a title on it so if they leave no one will notice.

Doug looks likes he cares about the company and I think he should be calling the shots when Dean isn't around.

Just look at what these so-called big name CEO's have done. Given LLC a black eye.

Seg-On
Wayne

Hauptagon

11-21-2004, 04:44 PM

The problem with that is, I don't think Dean wants to be CEO... it seems like he has too many other interests.

-Justin

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams." -From Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory

macgeek

11-21-2004, 05:16 PM

Ya know, I have used the Apple computer , Inc. metaphore here more then once or twice, and this also is a pattern I have seen before with the revolving door of CEO's - Till Steve Jobs took over the helm at Apple.

Maybe Dean IS the logical choice, and they just need to get enough CEO's thru the door before the board agrees.

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

Brooster

11-22-2004, 01:31 AM

http://www.charliechan.net/sounds/chpv65.wav

--Charlie Chan, "Charlie Chan in Shanghai," 1935

:D

muckle

11-22-2004, 02:34 AM

> Muckle, I don't *have to admit* it doesn't look good.<

You're right. You don't. I should have phrased it "most objective observers would have to admit it doesn't look good."

Hey, at least I didn't call you 'cute'! <g>

tomamil

11-22-2004, 03:09 AM

Yeah, exactly what I was thinking, Broo.

The boat may very well be sinking. Helluva way to be vindicated, though -- I would much rather have been proven wrong.

quote:Originally posted by Brooster

http://www.charliechan.net/sounds/chpv65.wav

--Charlie Chan, "Charlie Chan in Shanghai," 1935

:D

Tom A. Milstein

Segways should be everywhere by now!

hhaurgon

11-22-2004, 12:09 PM

It seems I have been missing out on the fun. Here we go:

Going through that many CEOs in such a short time is crazy - certainly not good business practice. Struggling ventures need stability and a strong leader that builds confidence. Whether Dean is CEO or not - he is still making the decisions. It is Dean that has stifled the marketing efforts through the years. I think the motto is something like "Why should we pay for marketing when I can get on TV for free?" Of course, he did manage to get a LOT of free advertising, but how effective was it? Anyway, just make him the CEO and move on.

Doug is obviously the "team" leader and is really looking out for the product and technology. I would hope that he gets an increase in clout.

As for Ron Bills, don't let the self-balancing door hit you on the way out.

My 3 cents.

Hugh

GyroGo

11-22-2004, 12:36 PM

IMHO, and I don't pretend to have any real insight, and with great respect for Dean and Doug (well, at least my outside limited perception of Doug):

The CEO should ideally be someone who, like Ron Bills, understands marketing, management, and money. The creative inventive risk taking processes should not be the encumbered by the burden of profit responsibility. Split these roles up. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are more businessmen and marketing visionaries than inventors and engineers, and more of an exception than a rule that would fit Segway. Let the inventor invent, the engineer engineer, and a someone else to figure out how to steer the structure of the entity without stifling ideas and innovation. Someone has to push the R&D and someone else should have to be the one to say "can't afford it", or "no one wants that".

www.bluestreet.com

panderso

11-22-2004, 12:59 PM

Could it be that all 4 CEO's from the onset believed in the SEGWAY, saw a huge potential and came on board to lead the charge only to realize there were factors preventing the realization of success? What are those factors? We don't know. I like all of you love the segway and what it stands for. Just wish we had a clear vision and direction so we could help the cause.

pam

11-22-2004, 02:27 PM

Or, rather than assuming that there's a problem with the company (which we seem to jump to without a second thought - what is it with us, do we like to scare ourselves? Do we like to think we're smarter than everyone else? Do we, underneath, WANT the company to fail for some wierd reason?) maybe the CEOs who left - had a better offer with more money, or really did have family issues, or any other host of things. IMHO, each CEO has had something to offer to the company, and they did. What a great wealth of different skills in different arenas (after all, the Segway really isn't *like* anything else) to infuse the company.
Pam

hhaurgon

11-22-2004, 03:20 PM

quote:Originally posted by pam

Or, rather than assuming that there's a problem with the company (which we seem to jump to without a second thought - what is it with us, do we like to scare ourselves? Do we like to think we're smarter than everyone else? Do we, underneath, WANT the company to fail for some wierd reason?) maybe the CEOs who left - had a better offer with more money, or really did have family issues, or any other host of things. IMHO, each CEO has had something to offer to the company, and they did. What a great wealth of different skills in different arenas (after all, the Segway really isn't *like* anything else) to infuse the company.
Pam

I wish I could believe that.

Hugh

fredkap

11-22-2004, 03:28 PM

There are a lot of fine people involved in this company. John Doerr and the balance of the board are an unsurpassed board for a start-up company. Then you have the creative and driven entrepreneur, Dean Kamen along with Doug Field and the balance of the engineering geniuses. Then you have the sales and marketing guys as well as legal and regulatory. What type of person leads such an organization? I'm not faulting anyone that has had the position to date, rather as difficult as it has been to have sales explode is how difficult it is to find the right leader. I'm just enjoying being the fly on the wall as this story unfolds.

Fred

pam

11-22-2004, 03:39 PM

Yes, Fred, that's my position, too. I truly have faith in this company, and it's been fascinating to watch it through it's growing period.
Pam

panderso

11-22-2004, 05:04 PM

Again, we do NOT know that those factors are that really made 4 CEO's decide to resign in 4 years. However, I have been in the staffing business for almost 9 years. The CEO is tradionally and for good reasons the most stable position within a company. To see that much turnover in that period of time is absolutely, NOT NORMAL in corporate America. Yes, we can hold judgement until the facts come out but speaking from experience, LLC needs stability at the top.

pam

11-22-2004, 08:53 PM

Well, it may not be normal at GE, or Ford, but I think that Segway is not a traditional corporate America company, IMHO.

So, it may well be just fine. Or not, but only time will tell.
Pam

Florida Ever-Glides

11-22-2004, 10:15 PM

They need a 'Dynamic Stabilizer'. Oh, never mind, they already have those...

Tom Jacobson
http://www.floridaever-glides.com

fredkap

11-22-2004, 10:22 PM

Heh Tom! Glad to see that your resignation was short lived!

Fred

muckle

11-23-2004, 02:46 AM

If you think having 4 CEOs in 4 years is a good thing, you probably think Ron Artest was merely trying to have 'more fan interaction'...

11-23-2004, 04:17 AM

yah, that is a bummer.

if it was 1 ceo over the last 4 years, i suspect a lot of people would be calling for his or her head here and elsewhere or praising them for where they're at now, who knows.

cheers,
pt

tomamil

11-23-2004, 09:14 AM

Who knows?

Well, business is the art and skill of knowing, PT. And the punishment for not knowing is failure -- which is where LLC is heading.

I can't stand the fatalistic mentality that pervades this chatgroup about Segway's commercial doom. Do we really think we're doing Kamen any good by clacking for LLC at every obvious sign of trouble, or by adopting this pseudo-Bhuddist pose of "If... who knows?"

What's the real story behind your withdrawal of the Book of Seg, PT? As many people have noted, lack of facts breeds wild speculation.

quote:Originally posted by pt

yah, that is a bummer.

if it was 1 ceo over the last 4 years, i suspect a lot of people would be calling for his or her head here and elsewhere or praising them for where they're at now, who knows.

cheers,
pt

Tom A. Milstein

Segways should be everywhere by now!

macgeek

11-23-2004, 10:06 AM

I actually spoke to PT about this, and he said (can I quote you) (well, maybe slightly MIS-Quote) That "The pictures and video was using so much bandwidth that I was getting grief from the ISP"

Is that correct??

I actually am pals with a ISP in NY, and would be happy to ask them to host it (there free-er with my abuse of bandwidth)

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

ElectraGlide

11-23-2004, 11:05 AM

If Segway wanted to be content knowing they invented a remarkable machine, then I would say they have been successful beyond belief. If they want to make that machine and sell it to the masses, then I would say they are failing with that and need a CEO that can direct it to the marketplace and increase sales substantially ( and not take years to do that ). They seem to succeed and fail at the same time, and the middle ground is where ??

Steve

panderso

11-23-2004, 12:19 PM

While I agree with you all that high turnover at the top does not project an image of stability and direction I want to give LLC the benefit of the doubt. Marketing could get better, distribution strategies could get more refined, prices could get lower, more commercial/individual buyers could decide to purchase, new products by llc could push all products to a better buying point, etc.
With an innovative product such as the Segway, I can not fathom current leadership and its employees allowing this venture to "fold up shop." Could anyone see a merger coming? Maybe to a recreational car company like Jeep or Hummer. Just thinking outloud.

panderso

11-23-2004, 12:54 PM

It is a good thing for McDonalds they are market dominate already or they would be going through the same type of uncertainty llc is experiencing in this forum.

pam

11-23-2004, 01:36 PM

Somehow I don't think that LLC is experiencing the same uncertainty that some forum members are experiencing <G>. Now, mind you, I don't buy at McDonalds much anymore, but the last time I did I noticed changes - I wonder how much influence the CEO and "parent organization" has in the day-to-day operations of the individual franchisers (franchisees?)

Pam

hhaurgon

11-23-2004, 01:44 PM

The most troubling side of the management flux to me is the uncertainty in direction. Are they going to sell through dealers or big retailers? Are they going to market as pedestrian transportation or as toys? Should there be many models or just a couple? You would think that with all the high-end people they have hired and that are on the board they would be better from a planning point of view.

Hugh

muckle

11-23-2004, 02:18 PM

Look, if LLC was as established and successful as McDonald's, this CEO situation would be a big NON-issue.

It's just that we're all curious about what Seg's place in the world is going to be. Will it be the revolutionary, world-changing, ubiquitous device that some had predicted?

Or will it be a 'rich man's toy'?

Or somewhere in between?

As such, we see signs and trends, and try to infer what it says about Seg's direction. It's ALL speculation. But I enjoy speculating. That's what's kept me interested for the last 4 years.

tomamil

11-23-2004, 02:19 PM

The management flux is not the problem, but the symptom. The problem is that they aren't selling any Segways.

Tom A. Milstein

Segways should be everywhere by now!

ElectraGlide

11-23-2004, 04:08 PM

quote:Originally posted by X-man

FWIW
McDonald's is going for No. 4 in the past two years

True......but Cantalupo's death wasn't directed by the board.

Steve

panderso

11-23-2004, 05:40 PM

woodenapple

11-23-2004, 06:58 PM

The Segway engineers and other employees I have spoken to don't sound very "uncertain". Those of us on the outside seem to get uncertain very easily, since LLC is not a public company and hasn't let us in on all their plans.

It reminds me of the FUD factor:
(Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt)

Rodney

May all your days be Segway days!

panderso

11-23-2004, 09:10 PM

You wouldn't want your employees to sound uncertain either...of course there not going to tell you to your face if they feel uneasy. Hopefully everything turns out all right and this will all be a distant memory but for now uncertainty rules the day.

hhaurgon

11-24-2004, 01:55 AM

Wow, great ideas, Broo!

Hugh

tomamil

11-24-2004, 02:01 AM

Fabulous! Dean Kamen and the entire NYC ownership Segs down 5th Avenue, gets arrested by the NYPD, spends the night in jail, and turns the Segway into America's next big court case: old laws vs. new technology.

(Think of the publicity, Itsi!)

Naw, better not. Too ra-a-a-a-dical. Better stick with car dealerships, rich man toys (glorified golf carts and bad joke Centaurs), and pooped-out back-room maneuvers in corrupt legislatures.

Segway LLC -- the only company in America where the engineers have the cojones and the businessmen are the nerds!

Tom A. Milstein

Segways should be everywhere by now!

KSagal

11-24-2004, 02:32 AM

Broo,

I understand and agree with your idea.

I don't know if you recall, but in July, Seg-Boston had a glide with a dozen plus Segs. That event is where I met many fine people in person that I had only spoken with on this forum.

That is also the glide where I met Doug Field. This is where I know the power of the presence of Seg-celebrity. I was impressed that he came, and we all had a good time.

There were photo's posted here and on Seg Boston's site.

One point of contentions, however Broo. Considering the half-life of a CEO at LLC, Doug would not be my first choice of draftee, unless I knew for sure it was what he wanted.

One other tidbit. I heard on Fox News channel today that CNN has had it's CEO resign. Fox news then went on to say it was CEO #8 since Fox News started. How long has that been? I think the life expecency of CEO at CNN is closer to McDonnalds, and 1/2 that of LLC.

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

muckle

11-24-2004, 03:22 AM

So I guess Pam (moderator) and panderso are the same person? Why the duplicate post?

Brooster

11-24-2004, 03:30 AM

Pam lives in Florida ... Panderso's a guy who lives in Colorado. Where ya comin' up with that one?

Brooster

RAG1247

11-24-2004, 05:14 AM

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion. However, LLC has a Board of Directors that is responsible overall and some of those people are not slouches. IMO, without any of us having any real facts, it is impossible to know why CEO’s are changed. I also feel it is unbelievably presumptive on our part, to think that “we” have all the answers and know what is best for LLC and that “if we were running the company, sales would be better, or this would be better, etc.” In many ways, I think that LLC does listen to this forum, but lately there seems to be more negative comments than positive ones. Without question, many of us are devout believers in this technology and will continue to be, as is the case with other new technologies and products on the market. For those who think otherwise, and have the background, proven experience and meet the other requirements for the position of CEO of LLC, then maybe they should apply to LLC.

I think LLC will continue and sales will increase, but I think the current major stumbling block is that more exposure, be it advertising or whatever is needed, since I still feel that vast majority of individuals know very, very little about the product. After 21 months, I have yet to pass another Segway going the other way. The second problem facing mass adoption are the current prices, and I think that they must be lowered if more of the “masses” are to partake of the technology. I don’t know what that price point is, but IMO, the vast majority of individuals do not have $4-5,000 of disposable income that they can spare. Unfortunately, it seems that the Segway is becoming more and more the rich man’s recreational toy, and that is somewhat based on current pricing.

I know there are some that will disagree, but as I started, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Pt’s statement a long time ago that this is a marathon, not a sprint, seems to be true.

We all want Segway to succeed, but without question, there are far more important things in life (or should be).

Richard
Ft. Lauderdale

If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you [img=right]http://www.sonyguy.com/rageagle.jpg[/img=right]

Stan671

11-24-2004, 11:54 AM

I don't buy (for one minute) the argument that people don't have the $5,000 of disposable income to spend on a Segway HT. Not in America - the land of consumer debt.

If people wanted to own Segways, they would own Segways. It is that simple. Period. End of story.

I have a two kids, a dog, a morgage, etc, and both my wife and I work and we both drive older cars. I bought my Segway HT with a charge card that I am still paying off. You cannot convince me that the guy driving the $50,000 SUV in front of me in traffic does not own a Segway because he cannot afford it. You cannot convice me that someone with a $14,000 giant flat screen TV on his living room wall cannot afford a Segway.

Why don't they own Segways? Because they don't want to. Nothing deeper than that. The problem is that the average person who could afford a Segway is so used to the lap of luxury (the comfort of the $45,000 Lexus and the $14,000 TV and the central air in his large house with no yard around it) that we has no desire to rough it out in the open air with a silly looking toy scooter. He did not move up in social status with all of these material things just to go minimulist on the Segway HT.

The average Joe, Jane, and kids are too wrapped up thier over-scheduled day, environmental excesses, and quest for material possessions to even consider anything but the fastest and most luxuriest way to do something or go someplace. The mind set of the Segway HT is the exact opposite of the mindset of the average American.

Look around you at the other drivers on the road. On a nice day where it is not raining and not too cold or too hot, try to see if you can spot even one person with the car windows open. They go from a closed environment of thier house to the closed car to the closed work place and back again. Most people don't even know what sunlight and fresh air are. And they don't care or want any part of it. How are you going to convice someone like this to ride a Segway HT?

Stan Dobrowski

RAG1247

11-24-2004, 12:14 PM

Stan

if you look at the segway as a form of alternative transportation for the masses, which was the original intent I believe, the vast, vast, vast majority of those people cannot afford the ht.

Those same people also cannot afford one for recreational use.

The examples of one who has a 50k suv or a 14k tv are those in the minority.

and by the way, I always drive with my window open (even though the a/c may be on.

Richard
Ft. Lauderdale

If you can’t change the people around you, change the people around you [img=right]http://www.sonyguy.com/rageagle.jpg[/img=right]

wayne

11-24-2004, 12:29 PM

quote:Originally posted by Stan671

I don't buy (for one minute) the argument that people don't have the $5,000 of disposable income to spend on a Segway HT. Not in America - the land of consumer debt.

If people wanted to own Segways, they would own Segways. It is that simple. Period. End of story.

Stan, that is the type of comment I hear all the time from people who already have money.
America may be the richest country in the world but there are a lot of folks who have a hard time paying their bills. More and more are going without health insurance.
So I don't think that statement is true, maybe in your town or state but not everywhere.
It is sure not true where I live.
Have you ever noticed that when someone gets a good paying job that they forget that everyone don't have one.

Seg-On
Wayne

Sid Viscous

11-24-2004, 01:10 PM

Er ah. I didn't ay $5000 for both of my cars. And bot ofthem have way more range than a segway. Most of trips are either to the store, disances and areas a Segway can't go, or to NY City and Montreal.

My Television costs less than a set of batteries for a Segway.

And I have absolutely 0 use for a Segway, other than neato factor.

Why would I buy one.

I'l grant you my mortgage is a little over $1,000 a month. But you see. I LIVE in that.

__________________
What's the font Knneth

muckle

11-24-2004, 01:40 PM

Oh, OK. I guess panderso was quoting pam's post w/o the quotes. It looked like a duplicate post to me.

Hey, I can't help it if I'm so easily confused! <g>

Stan671

11-24-2004, 01:43 PM

For the average person that can afford a Segway (middle/upper class living in suburbia), then s/he has moved far enough up the ladder to not need one. If s/he has $5,000 to spare, it is going to get spent on a fancier car or a big screen TV or landscaping around the house, or anything that moves them up the ladder. Not on something that is more basic, more simple, more practical (in a very limited way) and better for the environment.

Or, if they might be interesting in the Segway as an alternate means of transportation, they predict that it will just not be practical because most of thier car trips are too far or they are carrying stuff (like groceries) or people (the kids). This past summer, I did only 1/3 of the communting on the Segway than I did last summer. This is because I had a million errands to run (with stuff and kids) or I had to be home immediately after work and could not afford the extra time the Segway takes.

Stan Dobrowski

SegwayUtah

11-24-2004, 02:03 PM

Wow, it's interesting how the topic of this thread changes topics so quickly :)

One more thought -- I'm pretty sure that a number of employees at Segway LLC used to read these threads. I'm pretty sure they absorbed what they could.

I'm pretty sure that the things we say here are often depressing for the people working on the inside of the company. Consequently, they probably stopped reading the forums a long time ago -- or only check in from time to time. So they don't see much of what we say here.

We're our own enemy.

Chris

Stan671

11-24-2004, 02:11 PM

quote:Originally posted by wayne
Stan, that is the type of comment I hear all the time from people who already have money. America may be the richest country in the world but there are a lot of folks who have a hard time paying their bills. More and more are going without health insurance. So I don't think that statement is true, maybe in your town or state but not everywhere. It is sure not true where I live.I understand what you are saying, Wayne. There are lots of people that just cannot afford a Segway no matter how much they want (or could use) one. There is no way to sell a Segway to them, so I am not talking about them.

I am talking about the people that could buy a Segway but don't. Those are the people that need to be convinced to make the purchase.

quote:Have you ever noticed that when someone gets a good paying job that they forget that everyone don't have oneWithout getting into specifics about anyone, I am sure that I am quite average in that department. I know of people making 1/2 my income with a Segway and people making twice my income with a Segway. I can only speak about what I am experiencing myself and see around me in my friends and neighbors.

I should not have purchased my Segway. Practically speaking, I could not afford it. If my wife and I sat down to discuss this family purchase, it would not have been approved. Instead, I used the last $5,000 of credit line on my charge card. But I was a highly motivated buyer for many reasons that had nothing to do with any marketing efforts by Segway. Many of us here on this forum probably have a similar story.

Pretty soon, the market of motivated buyers (like us that are motivated for reasons other than Segway's marketing efforts) will become saturated and then sales will drop off if Segway does not start motivating other people.

Stan Dobrowski

hhaurgon

11-24-2004, 03:26 PM

quote:Originally posted by Stan671
Pretty soon, the market of motivated buyers (like us that are motivated for reasons other than Segway's marketing efforts) will become saturated and then sales will drop off if Segway does not start motivating other people.

Stan Dobrowski

Exactly.

Hugh

Itsi Atkins

11-24-2004, 03:47 PM

No need to push NYC like Critical Mass, to force Segways on the City or Police. The City is doing all it can while the State and LLC work to pass EPAMD laws. The City looks the other way, if you don't mix with street traffic, cars and cause problems. They support us and our work, and someday we will have legal use in the City. NYC is the model city and doing it's part. Don't screw with the City and leave it alone, it's Segways best solution to success.

tomamil

11-24-2004, 04:48 PM

Itsi, with all respect, you are uninformed. The City has no policy of "looking the other way" whatsoever. It's left entirely up to the individual cop to make a decision about whether or not to enforce the law. Some cops are nice, some are b-ds. Every time I go out for a glide in NYC or Brooklyn its a crapshoot so far as NYPD enforcement is concerned.

If you don't think this illegality is a major impediment to Segway sales then I don't know where you've been gliding. It used to be, the main question I would get asked was "How much?" Not any more. Now the most prevalent comment I get is, "Aren't those things illegal in NY?"

Your Critical Mass comparison is a red herring. I hold no brief for those bicycle anarchists or their tactics -- although at least they have the courage of their convictions, unlike LLC.

Getting Seg-arrested on 5th Avenue would not be my idea of fun -- I've already been through it on 9th Avenue! But it is a likely outcome of Broo's scenario of having Dean join us for a group glide in NYC. And it would serve him right!

quote:Originally posted by Itsi Atkins

No need to push NYC like Critical Mass, to force Segways on the City or Police. The City is doing all it can while the State and LLC work to pass EPAMD laws. The City looks the other way, if you don't mix with street traffic, cars and cause problems. They support us and our work, and someday we will have legal use in the City. NYC is the model city and doing it's part. Don't screw with the City and leave it alone, it's Segways best solution to success.

Tom A. Milstein

Segways should be everywhere by now!

Itsi Atkins

11-24-2004, 09:33 PM

Tom, I love your impute, but if the City wanted to rid the streets of Segways every cop would give us a hard time. No official policy can be issued to allow an illegal device, but NYC is working in the best way they can. They have their hands tied, until the State acts on EPAMD. So let's keep our Segs out of the streets and treat the cops with respect and continue to get positive pr.

FusionMag

11-24-2004, 09:38 PM

nice response itsi! Well said!

AJ

Itsi Atkins

11-24-2004, 09:44 PM

Thanks fusion, I could use your support.

KSagal

11-25-2004, 01:40 AM

Itsi,

I agree with you as well. Cops are people too, and if you are being a good neighbor and positive, productive member of the community, and not causing a nuisance, they generally have no desire to hassle you.

This is true even if gliding is technically not legal. They choose their battles just as we all do.

I also recognise that there are exceptions to all rules. If you are a great person, and get hassled all the time, it may be a bad cop, or a fellow glider that left a sour taste in his mouth. (Maybe even a rude scooter rider, and the cop doesn't know the difference...)

I truely believe that your own actions do have effect on your destiny...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

KSagal

11-25-2004, 01:59 AM

Stan,

I have been posting for many months that dollars are not the only issue that is driving sales numbers.

Of course, I was attacked for my views, but there are plenty of people out there that have disposable income and still do not buy Segways.

I went on at length in previous posts how many hoops I had to jump thru just to buy my seg. I really wanted someone to make it easier for me to do it, like have a dealer network to find them easily, or have them at the mass marketing locations that I go to for other purchases or things like that.

This is not to say that there are not others that have a problem with the cost. They are another market for this product that can be addressed at another time.

One other thing. Everyone's values are different. When my son was born 5 years ago, my wife and I made the family decision that she would be a stay at home mom. This cost us more than $40,000.00 a year. It was a great investment, but expensive.

I cannot tell you how many times one woman or another thinks they are giving me a complement by saying how nice it is that I let my wife stay home. They almost always follow up by saying that they cannot afford to do it.

First off, I don't 'let' my wife do anything. It was a mutual decision. Also, I see other people's cars. Sometimes their homes. I have not bought a new car since 1987. (When I was single) I do all the repair work on my own home, not because I aspire to be a plumber, but because they cost a lot of money.

We all make these decisions every day. I decided to take some of the limited family resourses and bought a segway. Just as Stan said, another person in my position my buy something else. That is all.

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.