Segway Lifeboat (aka) Re-inventing the wheel

[macgeek]

OK, fellow gliders.
before I go crazy, has anyone found a PORTABLE power source for the segway that can be fit into a 12.0 cargo bag, and give the seg a 1.5 hr recharge to use as a 'lifeboat' when you run out of juice and you still have a mile or so to go?

Any help would be appreciated!!!

Jonathan
Segway - "let's roll"

www.segwaygeek.com

[segwayowner]

I can remember somebody a while ago who had a car battery mounted on one one of his fenders that went through a power inverter, they would start their HT then plug the inverter into the power outlet, it would "charge" the batteries while gliding....

DES: Segway owner....
it has a nice ring to it

The average American/Canadian will eat about 11.9 pounds of cereal per year.
Mel Blanc (the voice of Bugs Bunny) was allergic to carrots.
There are more bacteria in your mouth than there are people in the world.
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[Deviant]

Not gonna happen.

While charging, gliding speed is a CRAWL pace because the voltage level indicates that the battery is overfull and could not be relied upon for braking (slowing) the vehicle. Way too dangerous for crossing a road.

So, you'd need to step off and wait the 1.5 hours (after cool down) before resuming your ride.

The front bag is not designed to carry that kind of weight, but I and others have utilized a battery/inverter or Power to Go type charger (built in inverter for AC current) mounted on Wayne's side carrier.

Best answer is that when you are down to the last 2 bars, slow down to a crawl speed, which surely beats pushing.

Good luck.

[dgbint]

There are lifeboats on almost every corner.
Coffee Shops.
Go order a coffee and a sandwich or a donut.
Sit a while and enjoy it.

Of course pick a seat near a power outlet, and plug in your HT.

It's not recommended to charge warm batteries, but on the rare occasion, a lifeboat situation, it's probably OK.

Michael

[macgeek]

As the song says "I want it all, and I want it now"
I am working on BOTH sides of the equation. I keep a 12' cord in my bag, AND I am designing a 'lifeboat" pack for my Seg. I have spoke with a electrical engineer and he has given me the specs for a unit (Which I am now building) - (Photo's to follow of course) We will see if it flies! (well.. recharges)

I would not recharge a battery while gliding. That idea is way to risky.
I like downtime to go and smell the roses, and talk with people.
Thats why Im on my seg in the first place. If I want to "Go somewhere"
I get into my car!

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
www.segwaygeek.com

[Ground Loop]

My initial reaction was "Hey, you can't charge while you're riding", but then I thought I had better check before posting..

Sure enough, while in balance mode you can plug in the AC cord and the lights start flashing. Is this for real? If so, it opens the possibility of providing 110AC while riding. I don't think the charger would be able to 'keep up' with the power consumption, but it's a curious state to be in -- charging while discharging in large high-current surges.. how could the end-of-charge detection circuit possibly work under those conditions?

So is anyone doing this now -- riding with an inverter and battery while on? How's it work out for you?

I will say that it tripped the GFI outlet when I tried it -- that doesn't give me a warm feeling about the Segway charger.

[legpain]

I was the one who tried this. My first set up was thring to use a solar panel connected to a battery, connected to an inverter, plugged into the charging port. Having e-mailed LLC with the problems I was having they responded that it can't work because the way the batteries are charged. I won't go into detail because they are correct. You can recharge the batteries while riding but you are in a mode that you can ONLY go about 1 mph. The batteries WILL charge but not enough to do anything. There is a chat here ALL about this. THE ONLY WAY IS TO LONG TERM CHARGE YOUR BATTERIES TO GET ANY WORTH WHILE RIDING IS TO CHARGE OVERNIGHT. Believe me, Segway is NOT going to change the software, they don't own it, so we can ride with external batteries. About the ONLY way is to provide the same amount of power as needed and remove the batteries and connect directly to the terminals. I'm NOT this talented and so will not be trying this.

John

[beckpm]

quote:Originally posted by legpain

I was the one who tried this. My first set up was thring to use a solar panel connected to a battery, connected to an inverter, plugged into the charging port. Having e-mailed LLC with the problems I was having they responded that it can't work because the way the batteries are charged. I won't go into detail because they are correct. You can recharge the batteries while riding but you are in a mode that you can ONLY go about 1 mph. The batteries WILL charge but not enough to do anything. There is a chat here ALL about this. THE ONLY WAY IS TO LONG TERM CHARGE YOUR BATTERIES TO GET ANY WORTH WHILE RIDING IS TO CHARGE OVERNIGHT. Believe me, Segway is NOT going to change the software, they don't own it, so we can ride with external batteries. About the ONLY way is to provide the same amount of power as needed and remove the batteries and connect directly to the terminals. I'm NOT this talented and so will not be trying this.

John


John,
The guy that was showing the fuel cell segway here at SegFest said that he tapped into the board and was able to either charge the batteries or power the segway directly from the fuel cell. He claimed that he could go until his cylinder of hydrogen was empty and that would take him about 20 something miles plus the range of the battery charge.

<div align="right">http://www.segwaychat.com/photos/beckpm/smallsig.GIF</div id="right">

[legpain]

Hey Pete, if you go by Pete, sorry otherwise! Yes, he would have to connect the the board directly, I don't have the skills needed to do this. Boo Hoo!!! Or the bucks to replace if I screwed it up!

Thanks for the answer!

John

[macgeek]

OK, im pre-ambling this project.
I decided because of the additional weight, and for balence factor. I was going to build this unit into a 25.0 bag. Also keeping the heavier stuff like locks/cables/ poncho, etc
in the 25.0 bag. Leaving the 12.0 bag for cargo, and other "stuff"

Here is the link to the batteries / charger I am buying
http://www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=SLA-12V9-F2
This charger can be used for BOTH batteries, as well as my 12.0 bag battery for my lights / accessories.

I found a 300/600Watt power inverter thats small, but still has enough kick.

The combines batteries will give me 18 AMP's of power, using the specs of 200watt draw for 1.5 hrs - 300watt peak for 6-10 minutes. The combines power should last 1.5 - 2 hrs.

The total weight of the kit is 13 lbs - (11lbs batteries, 1.7 lb inverter) leaving 12 Lbs carrying weight left for all the other things.

When I hook it all up, and try it. I will know if it really works!

More to come!

Jonathan


Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

[KSagal]

The fuel cell unit has had over $100,000.00 in modification to it. Yet it still does not charge on the fly. What it does do is have the ability to power the motors from the batteries or the fuel cell.

If I understand what was said, the motor gets authorization from the control boards to draw power for a specific speed or function, and normally draws that power more or less from the batteries.

In the fuel cell unit, this draw can come from the batteries or from the fuel cell. My understanding was that the fuel cell did not charge the onboard batteries, but instead provides and alternate power source.

For $ 100,000.00, I would hope you get all that you want.

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[legpain]

Karl, give up, Janathan isn't listening, he's going to do what he wants and that's it. He WILL fail but he believes he'll have at least tried.

Ah, youth!

John

[macgeek]

I would drather to have Love and lost, then Not to have loved at all..

Im no fool, I will NOT be charging my segway while im riding it!
and if I don't try, how do I learn?

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

[KSagal]

John,
You may have a point.

Jonathan,

I have had a 7amphour 12 volt battery on my unit for about a year.(Like a small motorcycle battery)

This battery powers my lights, which are many. (Ask people of the 'E' with the EL strands and many LED lights. I also installed automotive type power sockets.

In an emergency, I can take my inverter, which is always on my E, and plug it in to the 12 volt source, and charge the main batteries by plugging in that way. I have done this, but it takes time, and I have only done this while powered down.

However, if you are willing to pay the $100K that you referenced earlier, I have a solution. Give me the hundred thou, and I will follow you with a charged spare set of batteries.

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[macgeek]

For $100K I will buy a Hydro pack, and have the CIA follow me!

;)

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

[Ground Loop]

For the well-funded project-seeker, there really isn't anything magical about the cells in the batteries. You could easily build up another huge pack of SAFT NiMH cells, wire them in parallel with the existing cell groups in the batteries, and the HT would be none the wiser.

You would have to drill into the battery packs to bridge your aux packs in, or install an interloper connector between the batteries and HT, but that's hardly rocket science. If you keep the voltage of each sub-pack the same (10 cells?) then the HT charger should be happy to charge them for you too.

If you can afford the extra weight, you could double your range this way for around $1000. You'd have a Segway that's a good 25+lbs heavier than stock, taking twice as long to charge, but that's not an aweful tradeoff. So long as you keep to NiMH technology, you should find plenty of compatible options that can piggyback on the existing power structure.

[macgeek]

Simple., Elegant, Brilliant!

Great post, Ground loop

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

[Stan671]

It does not make sense to go through the Segway's charger because this would require changing the DC from the fuel cell into AC and then have the Segway's charger turn it back into DC. This is besides the fact that the Segway will not go faster than about 1 MPH when it senses that the on-board charger is running.

The hydrogen fuel cell assisted Segway was indeed VERY expensive, as Karl says. They hacked into the power boards inside the platform to get access to the direct DC connections from the batteries. The electronics in the fuel cell box constantly monitors the Segway's battery voltage and then it falls below a specific voltage, the fuel cell supplies current.

If the Segway's power boards happen to be sucking power from the Segway's batteries at this exact instance, then the fuel cell power will mix with that from the batteries and power the motors. This will result in a lower load on the batteries. If the Segway's power boards are drawing less current from the batteries than the fuel cell is providing at any particular instance, then the batteries will receive a charge.

Stan Dobrowski

[macgeek]

OK -- First Experiment results:
Using a 12V 9Ah battery with a 300/600peak Inverter.

The battery and the lighter / Switch All fit PERFECTLY in the 12.0 Bag
taking up the whole Lower quarter section. Using Silicon Sealant
and the Sholder strap from the 12.0 bag, I made a Battery Compartment.
that protects the batteries from banging and moving around.
PHYSICALLY its a beautiful thing! - I also fashioned a plastic cover
for the whole thing, so I can use the rest of the 12.0 bag for other stuff
(IE: inverter/modified power cord)

I ran down the battery, And set up the lifeboat, All was going great,
for the first 5 minutes, the unit 'chirped' every 20 seconds or so, while the seg was
doing its set-up / initial charge. Then the unit when into fast charge
and the chirp from the inverter stopped, about 15 Minutes in
I did a check of everything, and noticed that the Wire from the battery to
my RC Quick connect was way to hot!

SO I think I need to Re-Do all the wiring with much heavier cable.

More to come.

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

[macgeek]

OK -- Second Experiment results:
Using a 12V 9Ah battery with a 300/600peak Inverter.

***** Friggin AWESOME!!!
I ripped everything out (well all the wires out)
and re-wired the whole kit and caboodle with 12 Gauge solid strand
(one copper wire) household electric wire.

As well as running a separate circuit (fused) for the lights,
12V 'accessory' adapter (formally known as the cigarette lighter plug)

I glided this morning and drained the batteries till I had a safety shutdown
then "black key" traveled another 5 or 6 blocks till My second safety shutdown.

Plugged into my power inverter, plugged into my 12V plug, Started charging
kept tabs on the heat levels of the wires (minimal) and charged for about 15 minutes

I had enough charge to go about 1/2 mile more without any problems!
though the battery level went from full to safety shutdown pretty quickly
(Im sure thats from the 'rapid charge' and the software was doing its best
in giving me a monitor of the power usage)

My LAST experiment now is to see HOW LONG and HOW MUCH charge
I can get out of my 'Lifeboat' and then I will write the final report with
additional pictures of the changes.

Jonathan



Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

[Stan671]

Good work, Jonathan. Keep us informed.

Stan Dobrowski

[W9GFO]

quote:Originally posted by macgeek

The combines power should last 1.5 - 2 hrs.

2 hrs at 600 mah per battery is 1200 mah going into the batteries. Taking no losses into account that is a 40% charge.

Realistically I think you are looking at a 33% charge if you are able to charge for about two hours. Should be good for three to four miles. Pushing it may get you home faster.

Rich H

The Un-Official Segway Battery FAQ
http://www.spinfoot.com/SegwayBatteryFAQ.html

[macgeek]

I have to admit, that I am definetly getting more of a WORKOUT pushing the segway home. BUT a lifeboat is good for just that. If Im 4+ miles away and my batteries die. I can at least get 3 of those miles home on seg, and walk the rest.

Untill I take out a loan on the new 'extended' batteries, I am always looking for ways to extend my glide!

Jonathan

Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com

[macgeek]

OK, Last tests are done.

Using the 9Ah Battery I get 30 minutes of charge time (bout 2 miles) using a 300/600 watt inverter.

48 Hours of 24 LED Light time (That would cover a blackout!)
Enough juice to recharge my cell phone from a dead battery
use a Spotlight for about 50 minutes (1,000,000 candlepower)

The only complaint I have is that the bag is now a bit 'top' heavy
In the future I may consider re-working the batteries in one of the side cargo bags.

Jonathan


Segway - "Let's Roll"
Centaur - "Lets Roll on all fours"
www.segwaygeek.com