My Poor Busted Seg, Need Advice

[jrunner192]

Being the moron that I am I of course got all fixed up and ready to go over to campus to show off the HT and visit with some friends. Of course right as I got outside my place I proceed to fall off while going full speed. Somehow in my turn, which I've done many times, I got up on one wheel and the HT totally freaked out on me trying to compensate. I managed to fall off the front and catch myself but for some strange reason the HT hit the ground hard and proceed to roll under power BACKWARDS. I don't know how or why it did this but it got pretty banged up. The only thing that got hurt on me was scraping my toes (sandals) and mostly my pride. As for the HT I scraped up the fenders (replaceable eventually), chewed up both grips (replaceable eventually), and last but definitely not least, I managed to do the ever popular breaking/cracking of the right handlebar. Luckily the crack isn't all the way through and it is a somewhat clean crack. I was able to fix it well enough with some duct tape and make it over to campus, but now I'm faced with the issue of fixing the handle. I know that others have had this happen, the bar hit but it didn't totally shear off. I need to find some kind of adhesive or something that will work on this plastic and give me the strongest possible bond. The crack isn't very wide so I need something that will kind of flow into the crack and not make too big of a mess. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Jeff

[brina]

try an apoxy, i saw some at target the other day, it shouldnt be that difficult to find.

[KSagal]

I agree, epoxy. (Epoxy is a two part glue, you mix the resin and hardner together then use it right away)

You can find it at hardware, department and auto stores.

My suggestion is as follows:

Mix some up. It will be about the consistancy of very thick paint.

Lay a bit over the crack. Use some thread or floss, slightly flex the plastic to open it a little, (Be careful not to do more damage) and saw the string back and forth through the glue into the crack.

Allow plenty of time for the glue to harden once the repair is complete. Good luck !


Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[teekay]

Bummer Jeff, glad your ok! thats the most important part! Your pride will heal with time.

Now about being a moron, is that because you got all fixed up with a suit and tie, with sandals, or hammered a few Bud Lite's?

The cosmetic stuff can be repaired when you get the bucks, in the mean time, make up a story about how you saved a nice lady from a biker gang!

As for the crack in the handle bar, you may want to try some two part epoxy product. Thats just my thought.

Jeff you are not a moron, you are a honest human being, take pride in that!

Someone here will help you direct the repair, in the mean time, "Stick with the Biker Story"

:) Tim

[jrunner192]

Yeah I knew about the epoxy I just wanted to find the right kind for this particular job. I know that certain epoxies don't bond to all plastics. So the issue is what kind of epoxy should I use? I thought about the JB Weld epoxy but it is kinda goopy and thick. I'd also be interested to know what kind of plastic the handlebar is made out of. Like polystyrene or what in particular. It would help eliminate some products I guess. As for the moron comment teekay, it is just that I always have stupid things like this happen to me at the worst times.

Jeff

[teekay]

Jeff dont worry about it, it's part of life.

As for JB weld it was designed to work with metals. Just look for a clear epoxy, some come with a double tube, no brainer device. You just need to try it out on something else first and you will become a expert for your repair.

:) Tim

[Brooster]

Jeff,

I read the first several words of your post-especially about flipping up on one wheel--and expected to hear a repeat of my July 2nd faceplant story.

Just be glad it's not your face. It can happen SO quickly ... like within a fraction of a second. I still have some swelling on my right cheek bone, a bit of a dark circle under my right eye, pain in my right wrist, and pain in my right hip ... 50 days later. I'd much rather have had my Seg banged up than go through what I've been dealing with all summer.

Consider yourself lucky! Ride safe.

Broo



Brooster

[Stewbonz]

Jeff,
Perhaps break it off completly, drill out both sides and insert a steel rod, then epoxy?

JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/

[jrunner192]

The idea of breaking it off completely scares me a little, not to mention that the way it is cracked wouldn't make that very easy to do. My one issue that really bugs me is why the handlebar assembly is all made out of plastic? I know that one consideration is that it helps to reduce the overall weight but I know that I for one would be more than happy lugging around the extra weight it it ment that I didn't have to be fixing this. I mean I like the fact that the HT uses all of these advanced plastics and materials (engineering student so it interests me), but that is the one place that really should be reinforced much better.

Jeff

[np]

You could try to grind off a tiny amount of the plastic,
just a couple of dust particles onto a flat piece of glass,
cover it with a droplet of your chosen (mixed) epoxy solution,
then look at it under a microscope every 10 minutes until
the droplet solidifies. Any biology student can help you find
a light microscope - of course, you could also ask Segway LLC for
advice ...

quote:Originally posted by jrunner192

Yeah I knew about the epoxy I just wanted to find the right kind for this particular job. I know that certain epoxies don't bond to all plastics. So the issue is what kind of epoxy should I use? I thought about the JB Weld epoxy but it is kinda goopy and thick. I'd also be interested to know what kind of plastic the handlebar is made out of. Like polystyrene or what in particular. It would help eliminate some products I guess. As for the moron comment teekay, it is just that I always have stupid things like this happen to me at the worst times.

Jeff

[Ground Loop]

You might also check to see if the plastic is cyanoacrylate friendly. Crazy Glue was the first popular CA glue, but most hobby shops stock better ones.

Here's the thing.. you have to find out if the plastic bonds with CA. If it bonds very well, then CA glue is likely stronger than epoxy for a crack like yours that 'fits together' well and doesn't need any filling. Especially if it's a rough break and not a clean razor-straight break.

I'd get some "thin" CA glue, put it a microdrop on the end of a pencil eraser or something, and touch it somewhere inconspicuous on the handlebar. Then touch it with your finger. If you loose a layer of skin peeling your fingertip off, then congrats! It's CA-perfect plastic.

If your finger slides right off, and feels like nothing, until you stick two fingers together with the spot of glue, then you have CA-unfriendly plastic.

In my experience, most plastics do not work well with CA glue, so it's less than 50/50 odds.

Second option is "Plastex" or something similar. This is an unusual adhesive that chemically 'melts' some plastics to bond them very well. It's marvelous on PVC, and likely just as strong as the original plastic.

Personally, I would avoid the coarse impregnated epoxy's like JB Weld and Cement Stick.. these gain strength from bulk, and you have a very thin gap to fill.

Also consider drilling some small holes along the crack, inserting some fiberglass weave behind the crack (from a hobby store), and using that as a backing to strengthen the back-side of the crack. You can make very strong repairs this way.

Lots of options.. if you go with adhesive, just make sure you test it somewhere on the same plastic to see how well it adheres. Try bonding a pinhead to the plastic and see how much force it takes to break it off. Does the remaining adhesive "rub off" or is it stuck on good?

I don't have a lot of experience with two-part resin epoxies (the clear ones), but every time I've tried to use them for an edge-to-edge repair, like your fracture, they have failed. I believe they need more surface area to work with. They are not very strong when spread thin like between the crack, so make sure there is excess to bead up inside the handlebar. Be generous with the stuff, and sand off the excess later.

There are places that can repair the plastic using heat. I'm not sure how it works, but some use ultrasonic sound to "spot weld" plastic seams. Probably costs more than a new handlebar.

Last, if you can not repair it and decide to buy a replacement, let me know.. I'm still looking for a broken handlebar for parts and can help offset the cost of a new one.

[Sunday]

Perhaps you could take it an autobody shop. Lots of newer cars have lots of plastic in them. I'm sure those folks have some ideas on fixing things like this. Might be worth a try. Do you have a vocational ed department? Maybe they'd love to take a crack at it:)

Mark

[jrunner192]

Now I really don't know what to do. I was thinking about using the Plastex glue. I've used it before to fix plastic parts before, I'm just not sure if it will be strong enough. But now I had an issue with the HT doing a safety shutdown on me. I looked up the system fault and the manual showed that it was a fault in the platform. It did this to me a couple of times and then after I checked it again later it let me glide around for awhile and didn't have the fault again. Not to mention the problem that I've been having with it going into decreased performance mode for the past month or so. It'll be awhile before my family gets up here with the box that I had to leave at home because I didn't have room in my car for it. So when they get up here I'll probably just send it in and maybe at the same time see if they can reglue or patch the handle bar for a decent price (kinda doubt that). I'm just hoping that they don't think that the perfomance problem came from me falling off, because I know that isn't the case.

P.S. How does LLC take care of the shipping when you have to send the HT back to them?

Jeff

[teekay]

Did you fix it yet?

[jrunner192]

Nope no luck yet, I'm going to just call LLC today and see if I can send it in to get the problem in the platform fixed and while it's in see what they can do with the handlebar/grip area. Always best to leave it to the pros. It'll just be several months before I get to ride it again I guess. That means back to using tech like the bike and the, dare I say it, CAR! :) After not having it to go to class today I really realized just how useful it really is going to be. Now to just find a place for it in my classes.

Jeff

[Mr_Laurenzano]

I've been riding around with a shattered CS for months now. (To cheep to pay the deductble) and at 380 bucks why even claim it.
Ive tryed super glue - not good
Try the epoxy- I will to - come back and trell me how it went.

You must have biffed hard.


Segway-
Half the speed of a car,
Twice as Smart.

[IndyFIRSTengineer]

My second repair attempt was with a 2-part epoxy that was supposedly intended for plastics. Did NOT work well - I never got a solid bond and ended up biting the bullet for the $340 handlebar repair kit (older style connectors).

I do think the key is finding out exactly what type of plastic these pieces are made from. And I also think, based on limited experience at a previous job, that the solvent type of adhesive (Plastex - as mentioned by GroundLoop earlier) will work best - if you can find an appropriate adhesive for that specific plastic. That bond will be at least as strong as the original plastic.

Good luck in your search - keep us posted!


Stuart Bloom - Rolls-Royce Corporation
FIRST Team 1018 - Pike High School "RoboDevils"

“Who goes out and says, ‘You have a better probability of winning the state lottery than making a nickel in professional sports. And by the way, last year two million exciting technical jobs went unfilled in this country because you weren't there to take that job. And it pays you 10 times as much as flipping burgers, and it's fun and it's exciting and you get to create things and build things and help make the world a better place and help make yourself a better living.’ Who tells them this?”
Dean Kamen, founder - FIRST Robotics