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eli
07-16-2004, 02:03 AM
Segway Thoughts, Day 3 with a p133

Here's my thoughts on 3 days with the Segway. I'm sure these will continue to evolve as time and experience passes.

* Technology

I'm just humbled by this thing. It was probably worth buying just to keep around the office for my colleagues as inspiration in designing a satisfying and immediate first-user/"out-of-the-box" experience, as well as for a tactile/visual/body motion user interface. I've never seen anything like it in a decade of consumer product development. It's been a joy to see friends try it out for the first time.

(Actually, it was worth buying just to give myself something that I'd lusted after for years -- whether I ever use it for practical purposes or not! I've never done this before, and it was the hardest part of making the purchase decision.)

* Riding on recreational mixed-use trails

This worked *really* well. There was space for cyclists to pass, although the 10-15 mph trail limit didn't really render that necessary. The Stevens Creek trail that felt horribly dangerous and poorly designed to me as a cyclist -- narrow lanes, blind spots everywhere, sudden turns, unpredictable pedestrians --- felt totally natural on the Segway. I could slow down easily, and turn in a much tighter radius than my bicycle could. The Segway's relatively low speed probably also helped, since my decision time was greater.

I'll definitely continue to use it for trips that are bike trail-heavy, especially if I need to be presentable on the other end.

* Sidewalks

This was uncomfortable to an extent that really shocked me, especially after reading many conversations on SegwayChat from Seggers really comfy on sidewalks:

- I frequently got off the Segway and walked -- where the entire sidewalk was taken up by little kids, or a woman was pushing a stroller on a narrow sidewalk (just narrow enough to walk past sideways, but not wide enough for a wheeled Segway.) When I reached the densely populated Downtown Mountain View streets, I just got off and power-assisted --- it was just as fast, and it also provided some exercise.

- Sidewalks around Middlefield (in Mountain View, for you Bay Area Seggers) are single-width, and occasionally (and unexpectedly) have obstacles such as fire hydrants in the middle of the sidewalk. Getting around them was a pain that involved dismounting.

- Traveling beyond walking speed near traffic interaction points was really awkward. Slowing down at every major driveway and doing a lookback for traffic was painful. It was the equivalent of biking on the sidewalk, but with a bit more control.

- Maybe it's just time, but I'm totally uncomfortable entering a crosswalk in a wheeled device, where I'm not 100% predictable to a motorist. I tended to dismount before crossing, as I used to do in the first few weeks of riding a bike at complex intersections.

Overall, my initial experience was that it did not seem useful as a transportation device on our sidewalks. Now, mind you, if I had a disability that hindered my walking, I think the experience would have been nothing short of a gift from God.

Whereas cyclists have had decades to amass bodies of documentation on "correct" vehicular interaction technique to pass down with extensive studies documenting actual sources of injury and fatality (and we have lots of cyclists to observe and learn from -- both as role models and as negative examples!), the Segway hasn't yet reached that critical mass.

* Bike lanes

This was really awkward to me as well. The curvature of the road resulted in the need to excessively lean in the opposite direction to avoid falling off the road every minute or two. Using a bike lane safely also requires the ability to migrate to the traffic lane (or border thereof) at an intersection when a car needs to make a right turn; I just didn't feel comfortable making such a vehicular maneuver on the Segway, as I comfortably would in a bike.

* Bystander comments

The Segway definitely was an ice-breaker, and I'd had a conversation with a man who had asked about it. (I'd gotten off to avoid scaring his toddler, and as I walked by, he'd asked if my battery had died.)

A few people stared (especially when I almost fell off -- I'm sure many have a yuppie-Schadenfreude feeling towards anyone on a Segway), some kids said "those are really fun to ride" and "are you getting any exercise?" I don't mind the exercise quips -- between biking 100-200 miles a month, and doing 100-200 pound presses at the gym, I know I'm probably in better shape than most of them anyway!




SegwayUtah
07-16-2004, 02:09 AM
eli,

Practice a bit more on your HT, and then just go walking speeds when you're next to people, moving into an intersection, etc., and I think you'll find that the value of your HT goes _way_ up.

Chris

Sal
07-16-2004, 02:40 AM
Eli,

Practice, practice, practice, you'll notice that the Segway is just as intuitive as walking. In crowds, with autos (when necessary), with cyclists, just about anywhere. I would think that the P would be much more maneuverable than an "i."

I do applaud you for being, what seems to me like overly cautious. Better that than to go whole hog wild.

Please keep us posted, we're all eager to see you gliding effortlessly.

-Sal



Think Different / Answers that Matter
www.apple.com / www.lilly.com

Sleepy
07-16-2004, 02:51 AM
You'll get used to sidewalks. I ride from Santa Clara to Sunnyvale almost strictly on the sidewalks, except where there aren't any.
Occasionally I'll head off of the sidewalk if I see a concerned pedestrian walking toward me. They'll tend to step off of the sidewalk if they see you gliding toward them. I feel bad when they step off the sidewalk. So now if I see someone coming toward me, I'll drop into the bike lane until I pass them.

Once you get comfortable manuevering, you'll be able to handle busy sidewalks. A bunch of us rode up and down the sidewalks on Telegraph Ave in Berkeley on a weekend, with no problems at all!

zoomster
07-16-2004, 04:04 AM
Most of us can certainly relate to what you're rxperiencing. Sal said it best "practice, practice, practice". I'm still not great compared to others I've seen, but I feel comfortable in all environments now. In the beginning I was not only nervous about the machine, but you get a lot of attention while on it, which just adds to the nervousness. Give it another 10-15 glides and you won't ever want to walk again...hahaha.

Enjoy!!!

Rob

statmed
07-16-2004, 08:11 AM
quote:Originally posted by eli

* Sidewalks around Middlefield (in Mountain View, for you Bay Area Seggers) are single-width, and occasionally (and unexpectedly) have obstacles such as fire hydrants in the middle of the sidewalk. Getting around them was a pain that involved dismounting.


Having never been to California I thought there would be some of the worlds best sidewalks. How is it that you have fire hydrants in the middle of the sidewalk? That sounds really weird!

In NYC especially in my borough, The Bronx the sidewalks are not always as wide as I would like them, but it is a real pleasure to ride on the sidewalk. Even riding in NYC along with 12 other Segways during rush hour traffic amongst millions of people on the sidewalks was exciting with not one incident.

SUGGESTION: Continue on the sidewalks and just take it easy. Don't pre-judge that you're intimidating or scaring people as most are aware of you and it might just be that they in awe of your Segway.

Keep gliding!



H.M. Stern
statmed@optonline.net
www.segnyc.com
www.biker-glasses.com

I Love It When A Plan Comes Together (Hannibal Smith)

ElectraGlide
07-16-2004, 10:21 AM
Eli I've been riding "p"s for a year.....as with any Segway, the more you use it the more comfortable you will feel. In fact, I predict that in a short time you will be moving right along those sidewalks and intersections without a second thought...it will be second nature! Glide safely by keeping your eyes open and on the road, and you will have a safe and fun gliding experience. Enjoy your new machine!!

Steve

KSagal
07-16-2004, 01:10 PM
I ride an "I" but I concur. The more you ride, the more comfortable you will be at negotiating different situations.

You mentioned that when you first started riding, you used to walk the bike through intersections, and now you don't.

The segway is new technology, but you are not. I suspect that your learning curve will parallel that which you have experienced in the past.

Have fun, be adventureous but proceede at your own speed...

Karl Ian Sagal

KSagal
07-16-2004, 01:15 PM
By the way, thanks for "schadenfreude".

It pays to enrich my word power...

Karl Ian Sagal

defenbaugh
07-16-2004, 01:17 PM
Eventually it will be just an extention of your body under all circumstances, walking, standing, moving (forward or back). It takes a little time as it is so different than anything one is familiar with. Can you imagine your 3rd day critique of the first bicycle ever? It would really have been critical.

Ron

Brooster
07-16-2004, 01:19 PM
Hey Eli,

As others have suggested, you'll be fine--and more and more confident--with a little more practice. I'm glad you're being ultra-cautious around pedestrians ... that's always a good thing.

I always make a point of cutting my speed way back around pedestrians, whether approaching them from the front or rear. I'll pass from behind at a slow speed if there's room to do so. If two or more people are walking abreast, or if the sidewalk is really narrow or even if someone is just walking right down the middle of the sidewalk (which is often the case), I'll always just proceed at their walking speed from behind until there's a safe opportunity to pass. Sometimes they'll notice you and let you by; other times they won't notice you, or perhaps pretend not to. In any case, I never announce my presence by saying "excuse me," or "on your left," or what-have-you. I don't ever want to give a pedestrian the impression that I feel like my machine and I are more important than they are. I guess I've always figured that if I'm in such a hurry that I can't proceed at walking speed, I should be in my car or on a bike on the street.

To me, one of the coolest things about the Seg is demonstrating that it can blend in and proceed at walking speed ... or come to a standstill with other pedestrians when necessary.

You'll do great ... enjoy your ride!

Broo

[8][:P]



Brooster

Florida Ever-Glides
07-16-2004, 04:45 PM
Better to be safe than sorry. You could always wear a T-shirt that says "If you don't like the way I drive, then stay off the sidewalk." Just kidding. Stay safe...

Tom Jacobson
http://www.floridaever-glides.com

Burke
07-17-2004, 03:16 AM
Hi, Eli. Ditto what everyone else said. Overly cautious is better than daring, but we've never had to get off around pedestrians. Like Brooster said, we slow way down. Occasionally I'll use my bell or say "passing on your left" just so I don't startle them when I do go around them. But if we come up behind someone and there's just not room to pass, we wait till they notice us, and they always do, eventually!

I don't slow way down for toddlers (assuming it's safe and all); they seem to have no fear are are totally accepting. But I do slow way down for dogs so as not to spook them.

The unevenness of sidewalks can be very jarring, and that's why we must ALWAYS watch where we're going.

Part of my commute is a skinny sidewalk I sometimes share with oncoming bicyclists and pedestrians. I will often stop, turn sideways (taking up less room) and stand still so they can pass me, and I think they appreciate it. But a lot of times, they yield to me. I try to tell them thanks but that they didn't need to do that, but since they mostly don't appear to speak English, I doubt it registers. They'll smile, though.

A fear of what cars will do at corners is probably a good fear to have. In California, you can just never cross a street without making good and sure the driver who's turning sees you and is going to yield.

The other day I was peacefully crossing a wide street, more than halfway across, when an oncoming car made a right turn right in front of me. I could see that the driver obviously wasn't planning to stop, and I slowed down. Then she saw me and stopped dead in front of me, right in the middle of her turn with her hand to her mouth and her eyes wide open. She clearly knew she had just blown it! I smiled at her and shook my head. At least I knew she was sorry, and I think she'll be more careful for at least a while now. And because she WAS sorry, I wanted her to know there were no hard feelings. Funny how much can be communicated in a split second, huh?

Anyway, eventually you'll feel confident crossing streets on your p, but you can never been too careful.

Happy gliding!

Janice

eli
07-17-2004, 08:34 PM
Hey, everyone --

I really appreciate your sharing all of your wisdom, thoughts and experiences. I've spent more time with it on sidewalks, and reached a point where I don't get off at intersections, and only once got off (really narrow sidewalk with cafe tables). It was a bit awkward seeing people point at the person-on-the-Segway all the time, but I'd have to be pretty dense not to have known to expect the attention from all of your experiences.

And, yes, day 3 on a bicycle would have been pretty critical, too.

I'll definitely spend a few more weeks using it, but my gut feeling is that I'm probably going to sell it next month, so that it reaches someone for whom it would be more useful. I'm pretty torn between the insanely cool technology and the fact that I don't see it actually offering an advantage on a regular basis over a bicycle or walking for my present lifestyle.

My trips with the Segway have come down to so far:

- Just a few blocks away in a relatively dense pedestrian environment, so the Segway only saves 2-3 minutes (but I lose nearly all of the exercise from the trip)

- 2-4 miles away, so the Segway takes about 50-100% longer than my bicycle.

Where I think the Segway would be super-useful would be on trips that are a few miles away, and on which I'd have to arrive non-sweaty. I bet a lot of people on Segwaychat have lots of trips like that, but they're relatively rare for me.

No matter what, you're all awesome, and I've appreciated all of your advice and thoughtfulness!

mzokc
07-17-2004, 11:10 PM
The day after the Segway HT arrived I looked at it and thought, "I paid $5,000 for this, I don't want it sitting in the garage or closet, I'll just step on it each day and use it." Wow, that simple commitment really helped. Round trip distances I never thought possible did occur - over time. Following the advice from Segway, the glides were short at first and gradually became longer. No pedestrian activity in the first few days helped too.

What I find absolutely amazing is how after one year of use I started to have a lighter touch on the handlebar. Rather than holding the grips, I now relax and place my hands on the top front of the handlebar more often. It's different, and has given a new dimension to gliding. When the street is empty, it's a nice change of pace.

Everyones suggestions are excellent, practice is critical. The neatest advantage of practicing with the HT, it's always fun and enjoyable when glide surfaces are smooth and empty.

Mark