Colorado Laws (Revisited)

[defenbaugh]

A search for specific laws for specific places has served up only generalities.

We are going to Breckenridge and Leadville the end of this month. We want to take our HTi's. Does anyone have specific information concerning these two citie's acceptance/rejection?

TIA

Ron

[fastfreddie]

Ron--

Colorado is open territory as far as Segways go--laws vary depending upon where you go. Around Denver and the 'burbs they are more fussy about where and how you glide. But I have found both here in NE Colorado and in the mountains around Rocky Mountain National Park, they are quite liberal and as long as you don't impede traffic or go on a trail that has limited, pedestrian access no one really cares. I would call ahead to the specific locations where you will be and talk to either the police or to the park authorities and see where they are with this.

Hope that this helps.

ff

[defenbaugh]

ff,thanks. Sounds like we are going to have some fun in the Colorado sun.

Ron

[Sunday]

Mark (mzokc) took his machine to Durango last Fall, and seemed to have no troubles. He gave a demo to a gentleman while there, who later purchased an HT! You'll have to look him up when you're out there. I bet he'd be tickled to have someone else to ride with.

Mark

Don't laugh at my shoes, they're really a Segway.

[Seginaway]

I'll be visiting Denver in August and would like to take my X2 to get around downtown Denver.

Is anyone aware of the current laws for Segways in Co?

Thanks.

[MagiMike]

Colorado:
Has not yet enacted legislation affirmatively permitting Segway use on public ways.

Use of an X2 in a downtown area is not recommended by me. Open country and private land. I know you would hate to be the one to cause a harsh or restrictive law to be passed.

[Seginaway]

Colorado:
Has not yet enacted legislation affirmatively permitting Segway use on public ways.

Use of an X2 in a downtown area is not recommended by me. Open country and private land. I know you would hate to be the one to cause a harsh or restrictive law to be passed.

No doubt that one wouldn't want that on their head. However, on the other side, the appropriate, safe and effective use of one might motivate those that make such decisions that Segway use is a positive for our environment, urban congestion, greater food production, individual health, energy independence and lifestlye.

What better time than when major policy-makers get together and totally over run downtown Denver so much so that it makes short distance urban travel unbearable. All the while wishing they had one as they sit in their cabs (if they can get one), mass transit vehicles (herded like cattle) or walk blocks to the Pepsi Center.

Assuming proper and safe usage, the only reason an X2 has limitations in an urban environment has to be the wider stance that makes doorways LESS accessible but not impossible to navigate. If the X2 will always be ridden outdoors, even in an urban environment, then the doorway access and slightly larger size in an interior environment does not really matter.

One man's fear, is another's opportunity.

[bentbiker]

Assuming proper and safe usage, the only reason an X2 has limitations in an urban environment has to be the wider stance that makes doorways LESS accessible but not impossible to navigate.Surely you don't believe that INC's position statement that the X-series is inappropriate for sidewalk usage is based on an inability to negotiate doorways. Simply put, they intimidate pedestrians and do not allow for a pedestrian to stay on narrow sidewalks when an X-series is approaching. Just because you think it is great doesn't make it so. If you read the posts about previous bans, you will find a disproportionate percentage involved X-series units. I guarantee you that you will not be doing our community any favor if you insist on doing as you say -- you will only alienate still more people against the Segway in general.

[Seginaway]

No one mentioned the use of sidewalks, small or large, in an effort to intimidate pedestrians. I don't use sidewalks in my daily commutes at all and wouldn't envision using them in Denver as a means to intimidate pedestrians. Also, in many modern downtown areas, most sidewalks are not the narrow three foot variety. They tend to be the 12 to 15 foot variety. Even so, I wouldn't use the X2 to intimidate anybody, whether on a small or large sidewalk, path or road. Whenever approaching or approached by ANYONE, I always defer and leave the path or roadway.

I've never had a name for my X2, perhaps the "Intimidator" would fit.

Nah, not my style. Leave that to another.

[bentbiker]

No one mentioned the use of sidewalks, small or large, in an effort to intimidate pedestrians. I don't use sidewalks in my daily commutes at all and wouldn't envision using them in Denver as a means to intimidate pedestrians. Also, in many modern downtown areas, most sidewalks are not the narrow three foot variety. They tend to be the 12 to 15 foot variety. Even so, I wouldn't use the X2 to intimidate anybody, whether on a small or large sidewalk, path or road.
Your careful choice of words regarding your intent makes me believe you already realize how your response in no way relates to my post -- it matters not that the rider has no intent to intimidate people, it is the machine itself that is intimidating. People jump into the street a block in front of you, well before you can show any intent to defer to them. And, if you think you can negotiate downtown Denver strictly by the streets, I believe you will find that impossible.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Even so, I wouldn't use the X2 to intimidate anybody, whether on a small or large sidewalk, path or road. Whenever approaching or approached by ANYONE, I always defer and leave the path or roadway.

No one said anything about intentional intimidation - your words.

Do you really believe you can always leave the path or roadway when confronted with potentially conflicting (albeit legal) traffic? This is not always possible or practical in many instances. Your approach to this subject is in conflict with the intended & recommended use of the X2 by the manufacturer, and their efforts towards acceptance and favorable legislation for EPAMDs.

[Seginaway]

No one said anything about intentional intimidation - your words.

Do you really believe you can always leave the path or roadway when confronted with potentially conflicting (albeit legal) traffic? This is not always possible or practical in many instances. Your approach to this subject is in conflict with the intended & recommended use of the X2 by the manufacturer, and their efforts towards acceptance and favorable legislation for EPAMDs.

In my particular case, if the X2 is not used on sidewalks, as was previously stated, there are no laws specifically outlawing EPAMD use in the jurisdiction that one is in, all applicable pedistrian and traffic laws are obeyed, then I don't see how my use conflicts. It may conflict with an individual's notion of correct use, but many individuals have notions that are viable.

Further, you'll find that a number of Segway Tours offerred in many metropolitan areas thoroughout the U.S. employ X2s as well as I2s. Many of these Tour Operators are Segway Dealers as well. It would seem that your viewpoint conflicts with many of these operators who are the most experienced and sophisticated in regards to city use. Surely you don't suggest that such Segway Dealers are recommending an "approach to this subject (that) is in conflict with the intended & recommended use of the X2 by the manufacturer, and their efforts towards acceptance and favorable legislation for EPAMDs".

If INC. was in agreement with your X2 notion, one would assume that these offending Segway Dealers would have already had their licenses revoked by INC. I can't imagine that INC. would allow the most sophisticated users, approved Dealers, to continue to condone use and charge for it, thereby creating greater liability, that "is in conflict with the intended & recommended use of the X2 by the manufacturer. . .".

[bentbiker]

In my particular case, if the X2 is not used on sidewalks, as was previously stated [no, you said that you "wouldn't envision using them in Denver as a means to intimidate pedestrians"], there are no laws specifically outlawing EPAMD use in the jurisdiction that one is in, all applicable pedistrian and traffic laws are obeyed, then I don't see how my use conflicts. It may conflict with an individual's notion of correct use, but many individuals have notions that are viable.[If there is no EPAMD-enabling legislation in place, you are subject to motor vehicle codes. Will you have a vehicle registration and plates?]

Further, you'll find that a number of Segway Tours offerred in many metropolitan areas thoroughout the U.S. employ X2s as well as I2s. Many of these Tour Operators are Segway Dealers as well. It would seem that your viewpoint conflicts with many of these operators [please provide us an example of a Segway-authorized tour operator in a non-EPAMD area using X2's on sidewalks or roads] who are the most experienced and sophisticated in regards to city use. Surely you don't suggest that such Segway Dealers are recommending an "approach to this subject (that) is in conflict with the intended & recommended use of the X2 by the manufacturer, and their efforts towards acceptance and favorable legislation for EPAMDs". [I will reserve such judgement pending your example.]

If INC. was in agreement with your X2 notion, one would assume that these offending Segway Dealers would have already had their licenses revoked by INC. I can't imagine that INC. would allow the most sophisticated users, approved Dealers, to continue to condone use and charge for it, thereby creating greater liability, that "is in conflict with the intended & recommended use of the X2 by the manufacturer. . .". [I can't imagine that either. Maybe a Segway-authorized tour operator will comment whether their contract with INC allows them to operate in such a manner.]Bottom line is that I doubt anybody here would strongly oppose a desire on your part to test the laws in CO by operating your X2 strictly on the streets of downtown Denver. I do think this will prove to be impossible, and unsafe for you. We have another member here who has tried this in a big city and he has the tickets to show for it.

[Seginaway]

The purpose of the original post was to discover the laws that would be applicable in a location that I would be visiting. It was not to stir up a hornets nest.

That being said, the conversation has obviously touched a nerve for a number of people that are desirous of maintaing and building a Segway friendly community and environment. To that objective, I agree whole-heartly, indeed it was the primary rationale behind my inquiry -- to discover the rules of the road before going on the road so as NOT to break the rules of the road.

I too, look forward to what some Tour Operators could offer as they would have a much higher understanding of X2 usage in a city environment than I. INC's site states: "Certain states have not yet enacted legislation affirmatively permitting Segway use on public ways. This does not necessarily mean that Segway PT use in public areas is prohibited, so check your local regulations prior to use."

As to the declarative statement that "If there is no EPAMD-enabling legislation in place, you are subject to motor vehicle codes." For, without specific legislation one cannot automatically assume another concept applies.
I would expect that you can provide statutes stating that your statement is true. While your statement may be true in your locale, not in mine, perhaps in someone elses. That's why I asked the question on this thread in the first place.

Further, my intended use did not envision sidewalks and I never stated that I would be utilizing one. Another poster stated usage on narrow sidewalks intimidates pedistrians which I responded with the quote you related where I specified that I had no intention to ride on sidewalks or to intimidate anyone, anywhere.

The X2 may not be appropriate for sidewalks, even 20ft. wide sidewalks, but that does not mean that all urban or city usage is wrong, illegal, an attempt to have harsh and restrictive laws passed or an effort to derail acceptance of and favorable legislation for EPAMDs.

Yet, at the same time, the conversation has been stimulating, open and has brought light to some issues I hadn't thought about and has given me a much better understanding of SegwayChat. Best Regards!!

[PeteInLongBeach]

In my particular case, if the X2 is not used on sidewalks, as was previously stated, there are no laws specifically outlawing EPAMD use in the jurisdiction that one is in, all applicable pedistrian and traffic laws are obeyed, then I don't see how my use conflicts.

But you mentioned sidewalk widths and leaving the path or roadway to avoid intimidating pedestrians, so this alluded to the possibility of sidewalk or path usage, and that's what my response was directed at.

If INC. was in agreement with your X2 notion,

It's not only my "notion", so all condescention aside, here is a direct quote from Segway INC.'s i2 / x2 Reference Guide:

"The x2 model is optimized for
outdoor use. The x2 has larger
Wheels and wider Tires with
knobby treads, and is intended
for use on more varied and
rugged terrain than other models.
The x2’s wider stance and lowpressure
Tires provide increased
stability and traction on rough
terrain. The x2 is not intended for
use on sidewalks."

I can't imagine that INC. would allow the most sophisticated users, approved Dealers, to continue to condone use and charge for it, thereby creating greater liability, that "is in conflict with the intended & recommended use of the X2 by the manufacturer. . .".


Neither can I. So, I too would like to know who are these Dealers? My local dealer does not use X2s in their city tour or rental fleet, and I'm not aware of any who do.

[Seginaway]

Pete,

Another poster inferred that any sidewalk usage would mean intimidating pedestrians. I didn't mention any sidewalk usage on my part and responded to the poster that I don't use my X2 to intimidate anyone, anywhere. Indeed, I go out of my way not to alarm anyone. Additionally, in my locale, there really aren't any pedestrians except the ones I meet on wide paths where one can easily go around them without coming within 15 to 20 feet of them.

INC.'s Reference Guide mentions sidewalks & the X2. I didn't. I don't use them.

INC.'s Website states: Certain states have not yet enacted legislation affirmatively permitting Segway use on public ways. This does not necessarily mean that Segway PT use in public areas is prohibited, so check your local regulations prior to use.

All I wanted to do here was check CO's local regulations and to know what the ACTUAL LAWS in CO are, not interpetations, so that I could glide there when I visit without offense.

BTW, beautiful glide to work today and nary a sidewalk traversed. Hope your day is as nice.

[fnelken]

I'm going to buy a Segway in the next day or two. I want an X2 as it seems to have more advanteges. I have talked to tour operators in CA, NV, etc., and they do use the X2.

[Seginaway]

I'm going to buy a Segway in the next day or two. I want an X2 as it seems to have more advanteges. I have talked to tour operators in CA, NV, etc., and they do use the X2.

What is the terrain like where you will be using the X2? Have you ridden both the I & the X?

What was the response of the Tour Operators that you spoke with? Did they use an X2 in an Urban area or only Suburban / Rurual? Are the areas that they operate in Segway friendly and Segway lawful?

Thanks.