Dont do this and dont do that on a Segway...

[n/a]

Dont Segway on slippery surfaces...
Dont walk your dog on a Segway...
Dont allow a child on the Segway...
Dont carry your baby on your back while on a Segway...
Dont use it in the snow...

I understand if these dont's are meant for early adopters/ambassadors with regard to Segway's safety record and renomeé.

But be carefull Segway advisors. Dont send too many mixed messages. Lets not on the one hand claim how safe they are to use and on the other, warn people against doing things with them that people do all the time on bikes without thinking twice. People might get the "illusion" that Segways are less safe than bikes.

[pam]

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

Dont Segway on slippery surfaces...
Dont walk your dog on a Segway...
Dont allow a child on the Segway...
Dont carry your baby on your back while on a Segway...
Dont use it in the snow...

I understand if these dont's are meant for early adopters/ambassadors with regard to Segway's safety record and renomeé.

But be carefull Segway advisors. Dont send too many mixed messages. Lets not on the one hand claim how safe they are to use and on the other, warn people against doing things with them that people do all the time on bikes without thinking twice. People might get the "illusion" that Segways are less safe than bikes.


I don't think these don'ts are meant for ealy adopters/ambassadors only. They're meant for all Segway users. (Well, some people do ride Segways on snow and live to tell about it <G>.) Every machine, whether it's a Segway or a bike, has certain parameters for use, and I wouldn't even consider comparing a Segway with a bike for that reason.

You don't have forward/backward balance issues on a bike. Weight distribution on a Segway highly impacts the sensing/gyroscope mechanisms. That doesn't make them "less safe" than a bike - only different.

I, personally, wouldn't walk a dog on a bike, either. Too big a chance the dog will run in front of the bike and get the lead caught up in the wheels.

You wouldn't put a small child on an adult bike, it's too big for hir.

Someone looking for a reason to justify not getting a Segway will use any "excuse" they can. Whether we early users or Segway provide people with safety information that makes the use of Segway more safe for all users isn't going to affect them. Regular folks who aren't quite sure if they want one or not probably aren't going to be comparing them to bikes, either. (If they are, maybe they *should* get a bike.)Safety recommendations aren't going to scare them away (I don't think). I personally am GLAD I got the safety recommendations/training, and think the company would be greatly remiss to NOT educate us on the parameters of this marvelous machine.

Pam

[n/a]

quote:I personally am GLAD I got the safety recommendations/training, and think the company would be greatly remiss to NOT educate us on the parameters of this marvelous machine.


Agreed pam. The gist of my point was that too much cautioning will send the wrong signals. Segwaying is supposed to be safer than walking I have hear it said. Who said that?

I appreciate advice being given about safe, risky, or dangerous practices regarding Segway but if Segway is safer than walking as I believe Kamen has said, some of these messages seem contradictory.

[GlideMaster]

Thanks pam, you said that like a true Ambassador of the Glide. Being the lady that you are, Glide With Grace.

<center>The GlideMaster</center>
<center>http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete/1267/gif/segway.gif</center>
<center>Glide On</center>
quote:Originally posted by pam

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

Dont Segway on slippery surfaces...
Dont walk your dog on a Segway...
Dont allow a child on the Segway...
Dont carry your baby on your back while on a Segway...
Dont use it in the snow...

I understand if these dont's are meant for early adopters/ambassadors with regard to Segway's safety record and renomeé.

But be carefull Segway advisors. Dont send too many mixed messages. Lets not on the one hand claim how safe they are to use and on the other, warn people against doing things with them that people do all the time on bikes without thinking twice. People might get the "illusion" that Segways are less safe than bikes.


I don't think these don'ts are meant for ealy adopters/ambassadors only. They're meant for all Segway users. (Well, some people do ride Segways on snow and live to tell about it &lt;G&gt;.) Every machine, whether it's a Segway or a bike, has certain parameters for use, and I wouldn't even consider comparing a Segway with a bike for that reason.

You don't have forward/backward balance issues on a bike. Weight distribution on a Segway highly impacts the sensing/gyroscope mechanisms. That doesn't make them "less safe" than a bike - only different.

I, personally, wouldn't walk a dog on a bike, either. Too big a chance the dog will run in front of the bike and get the lead caught up in the wheels.

You wouldn't put a small child on an adult bike, it's too big for hir.

Someone looking for a reason to justify not getting a Segway will use any "excuse" they can. Whether we early users or Segway provide people with safety information that makes the use of Segway more safe for all users isn't going to affect them. Regular folks who aren't quite sure if they want one or not probably aren't going to be comparing them to bikes, either. (If they are, maybe they *should* get a bike.)Safety recommendations aren't going to scare them away (I don't think). I personally am GLAD I got the safety recommendations/training, and think the company would be greatly remiss to NOT educate us on the parameters of this marvelous machine.

Pam

[ftropea]

Lawrence wrote:

quote:
Dont Segway on slippery surfaces...
Dont walk your dog on a Segway...
Dont allow a child on the Segway...
Dont carry your baby on your back while on a Segway...
Dont use it in the snow...
...


I could add another 1,000 things not to do with your Segway HT. However, it's easier to talk about how *best* to operate a Segway HT. The list of safe riding practices allows any reasonable person to figure out what they should/shouldn't be doing on a Seg.

For example: Avoid slippery surfaces.

I can reasonably assume this means: Avoid riding over ice, snow, sleet, oil, marbles, etc.

For example: Do not ride with a second passenger.

I can reasonably assume this means: No, you can't hop on behind me for a ride. No, I probably shouldn't let you sit on my shoulders.. No, I probably shouldn't carry a baby on my back.


So the point is, while there are PLENTY of *DO NOTs* - they are mostly derived from reasonable interpretation of the relatively few *DOs*.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea
"Keep your wheels on the ground!" - me.

[GlideMaster]

In order to "Keep your wheels on the ground" (per The Mayor of Glidesville) a Segway glider must glide responsibly.

<center>The GlideMaster</center>
<center>http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete/1267/gif/segway.gif</center>
<center>Glide On</center>

[n/a]

Glidemaster, how many Segwaying hours would u recommmend before somebody attemts what u did, riding in the snow?

[ftropea]

If I may chime about riding in the snow..

You shouldn't do it w/o the snow tires. However, I did ride through some sleet/snow and rode cautiously - although I did experience a hazardous condition which put the machine into a safe shutdown mode. I'm certainly not as experienced as GlideMaster, but I would think one should never ride through the snow/ice - or any slippery conditions - if it can be avoided. That evening, I did need to get home to my place. But that was a conscious decision.. not based on an assumption that it was a safe/smart thing to do.

I await GlideMaster's response to your question Lawrence, but I'm sure he wouldn't recommend anyone ride through the snow or slippery surfaces - beginner or not.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea
"Keep your wheels on the ground!" - me.

[Blinky]

Lawrence writes,
quote:Agreed pam. The gist of my point was that too much cautioning will send the wrong signals. Segwaying is supposed to be safer than walking I have hear it said. Who said that?
Probably not safer than walking, maybe what should be said is that it is the safest thing you can ride on the ride walk other than walking.






http://www.bl.com/ben/gifs/Blinky.gif http://www.harpy.net/paul/blinky.jpg

[Blinky]

Ftropea writes,
quote:I could add another 1,000 things not to do with your Segway HT. However, it's easier to talk about how *best* to operate a Segway HT. The list of safe riding practices allows any reasonable person to figure out what they should/shouldn't be doing on a Seg.
Agreed, unfortunately people will have to learn from their mistakes and the "what not to do's" would have to be a factor in their learning.

As for how the Segway is portrayed in the media - like Ftropea said, you can find a thousand additional wrong things to do wrong with the Segway. So why assume this will ever be a burden for them when you can also find a thousand things wrong with every possible other thing in the world.

The Segway will make a name for it self.




http://www.bl.com/ben/gifs/Blinky.gif http://www.harpy.net/paul/blinky.jpg

[GlideMaster]

Well Lawrence the Mayor of Glidesville is right about the snow. Stay out of it if you can. The only reason I was in the snow was because I was in a closed off parking lot which I was familiar with. The snow was about three inches deep over hard packed dirt. And then last but not least; I've been skiing for 29 years and I have about 72 hours of Glide Time. One problem with snow is if you're not familiar with what the snow covers you have no idea what's underneath; a hole, a bump, ice or whatever. But don't get me wrong, the Seg never missed a beat for almost a couple of hours of snow circles and just plain gliding. You MUST know what's under the snow.

<center>The GlideMaster</center>
<center>http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete/1267/gif/segway.gif</center>
<center>Glide On</center>
quote:Originally posted by Lawrence

Glidemaster, how many Segwaying hours would u recommmend before somebody attemts what u did, riding in the snow?

[charmed]

Dang, Glidemaster....between the new title and the awesome animation, I'm starting to get the idea that you are one fun guy to know.

I sure would like to jump into this discussion, but never having had the opportunity to ride one of these still rare machines, I will not.

Okay, maybe just a little.

Question- how could a ten to thirty pound baby in either a front strappy sling-thing or a well-designed baby back pack throw off the balance of a 150lb+ adult who was holding on to the handlebars to the extent to create a hazard more dangerous than, say, a bicycle baby seat? I know kids fidget, and sometimes even throw complete and spasmodic fits....but if it doesn't make a walking caregiver hit the dirt, why would it make a gliding one do so? I would have imagined that it would 'feel' safer to cart a well strapped on baby on a Segway than it does on a bicycle, if only for the fact that if somehow the glide is upset, the chances of recovering on one's feet would be higher...? What am I missing?

I take note of those that explain the differences between bikes and Segways in these regards. On the other hand, I live in a place (Amsterdam) where one sees countless tykes (often two up, sometimes as many as three) perched and tucked on to mom or dad's bike. Is it safe? Debatable. Is it the way things are done here? Definitely. Same goes for dogs being walked-- very common to see dogs on leads trotting in a well-behaved fashion alongside their pedaling owners. Granted, the dogs here seem a bit more focused and aloof than their American cousins. But the point is that it is an accepted practice in this culture. In short, I think the 'Don't do this and don't do that' glidelines that Lawerence points out in this thread will be a much tougher sell here in Europe (and don't even get me started on what eye-popping transportation practices I've witnessed in SE Asia).

[n/a]

quote: (and don't even get me started on what eye-popping transportation practices I've witnessed in SE Asia).



Since Kamen envisions Asia being among the major beneficiaries of Segway/stirling/water purifier, I think it would be appropriate to say more about this Charmed.

[Brooster]

Charmed and Lawrence, I think you both need to think about a little visit to Chicago this summer. It's a long way to come just to ride a Segway, but I think you'd be glad you did. Ol' Weski ... (oops) I mean GlideMaster ... and I would see to it that you get a lot of Segtime.



Brooster

[BruceWright]

I think the safe way to Segway with a baby is to first, tie the baby to a tree....

[charmed]

Maybe, just maybe, I will take you up on the kind offer, Broo. Might be headed back to the states around that time, should know more soon.

BTW, you're talking like a man who already has his ride. I like that.

L- regards SE asia, I only brought it up to add a little global perspective. I recall quite vividly riding back in the bed of a small japanese pick-up outfitted as a jitney, benches on each side, crammed in with no less than 13 other souls, racing down a two-lane highway, and just behind us, what appeared to be a 70 yr.old grandmother piloting a small motor scooter with four (4!) small children mounted from handlebars to tailpipe. The grandmother had the thing floored, trying to catch up to the tourists in the back of the pick-up, all the kids laughing and waving while I frantically hand-signed to back off.

Crazy **** like that was everywhere I looked. Bikes often carried more than one person, motor scooters often carried more than two.

To a lesser extent, Amsterdam is like that. Helmets for bicyclists are unheard of, for example, even for the kids crammed three-up on mom's bike. I've always thought that it is in part a reflection of the differences in the way our cultures regard litigation....I dunno. Add to this an economic environment, lack of space, and an infrastructure that just doesn't allow for every man, woman and teen to own a car....you get people 'improvising' with ways to creatively get themselves and their stuff around. One reason among many that I think the Segway could do very well in a place like Amsterdam. It is already overrun with bikes, pedestrians, and cars, largely sharing the same pavement. The Segway would glide right into the mix and the kinds of arguments being used in SF would be laughable here.

While I understand Segway's intentions to keep things as safe as possible, and while I also understand that their message will be, to some extent, effective in the states, I think that safety message will not have the same impact in many other parts of the world.

[pam]

quote:Originally posted by charmed

Dang, Glidemaster....between the new title and the awesome animation, I'm starting to get the idea that you are one fun guy to know.

I sure would like to jump into this discussion, but never having had the opportunity to ride one of these still rare machines, I will not.

Okay, maybe just a little.

Question- how could a ten to thirty pound baby in either a front strappy sling-thing or a well-designed baby back pack throw off the balance of a 150lb+ adult who was holding on to the handlebars to the extent to create a hazard more dangerous than, say, a bicycle baby seat? I know kids fidget, and sometimes even throw complete and spasmodic fits....but if it doesn't make a walking caregiver hit the dirt, why would it make a gliding one do so? I would have imagined that it would 'feel' safer to cart a well strapped on baby on a Segway than it does on a bicycle, if only for the fact that if somehow the glide is upset, the chances of recovering on one's feet would be higher...? What am I missing?

I take note of those that explain the differences between bikes and Segways in these regards. On the other hand, I live in a place (Amsterdam) where one sees countless tykes (often two up, sometimes as many as three) perched and tucked on to mom or dad's bike. Is it safe? Debatable. Is it the way things are done here? Definitely. Same goes for dogs being walked-- very common to see dogs on leads trotting in a well-behaved fashion alongside their pedaling owners. Granted, the dogs here seem a bit more focused and aloof than their American cousins. But the point is that it is an accepted practice in this culture. In short, I think the 'Don't do this and don't do that' glidelines that Lawerence points out in this thread will be a much tougher sell here in Europe (and don't even get me started on what eye-popping transportation practices I've witnessed in SE Asia).




Hmmm, I think that the problem with an infant on your back is probably two-fold. One, the Segway is always trying to put itself under your center of balance - that's why it goes forward when you lean forward and goes backward when you lean backward. If you have a significant amount of weight either behind or in front of you, particularly if it moves around, it will skew the Segway's attempt at balance. For most of us, when we get on the first time, we do this little oscillation number until we learn to trust that the machine DOES balance. That might be magnified with significant weight in the front or in the rear.

Now, you can, wear a backpack to carry something that might not fit in your front or top basket - but that backpack is not as liable to shift. You need to wear it with both arms through the straps.

The second reason may well be because if you were to do something that caused you to fall backwards (and it could happen), the injury to a child on your back could be catastrophic. Same as on a bicycle. I'm sure you will find that the majority of bike manufacturers will say, don't ride with a child in a front or back pack. Segway, as a responsible manufacturer, can't ignore those kinds of things.

I remember at our dinner, one of the EDC winners said, "start training but not with the video" (which is very clear on all the ways you could topple the Seg - the one I jokingly call "no Segway employees were harmed making this video" &lt;G&gt;) that the video would scare too many people off. Dean Kamen came back with "but we want people to know - we think it's important that they have that knowledge even before they get on the Segway." (not a direct quote, because after that second glass of wine, I couldn't remember a direct quote &lt;G&gt; - but that's the gist of it.) The Segway - after that first 60 seconds or so (the oscillation, remember?) seems so easy to use and it's so easy to get cocky. They recognize that, and want us to be responsible.
Pam

[BruceWright]

I'd love to see that video, but I can imagine the ways it could be used against a segway.

[MrTechno]

I've done some snow riding without a problem. I was pretty cautious because these tires are designed for many types of riding....but trekking thru the snow is not on the list. I've been out twice in snow....made a lot of Segway snowcircles (what you get when you pivot 360 degrees in place)....went at a good speed but stopped and turned with caution.

I had no problems, had a ball and videotaped it to capture the unique tracks an HT leaves in the snow. How downright geeky!

[Blinky]

quote:made a lot of Segway snowcircles (what you get when you pivot 360 degrees in place)....
I guess the "don't" in this example would be the attempt in making YELLOW snow circles.





http://www.bl.com/ben/gifs/Blinky.gif http://www.harpy.net/paul/blinky.jpg

[GlideMaster]

Since everyone is talking about snow circles here is what occurred; and Blinky don't glide yellow snow.

Well guys I went out and did about one hour and thirty-five minutes of Gliding in the snow today. I thought I was on my monoski in the wilderness of Blue Sky Basin at Vail, past the Back Bowls. The feeling was as if I were at Belle's Camp, the very peak of Blue Sky Basin, and had taken the express lift up to the pinnacle of the peak and proceeded to do a smooth glide down in virgin powder for about a mile, none stop. There was only on problem; the powder was only three to four inches in most spots and maybe a few spots of about five inches. But the virgin powder over the gritty fine dirt parking lot was a true inspiration for a true Ambassador of the Glide.

When I say I was gliding in virgin snow, you just have to imagine. The depth of the powder was as if it had been laid out for Hollywood by one of the Segway engineers. The powder was as even as if it had been measured to just barely skim the battery packs against the first crystal layer of the virgin powder.

Though I know I was gliding , it was amazing to sometimes look back and see tire tracks and ask myself where did those come from? Upon coming to the realization that my glide did produce tracks, I started to do my ski thing (large figure eights) crossing over my own glide tracks. Then it hit me, as I stopped making large figure eights I started to glide the parallel of my own previous glide path. The result of this forty five minute parallel gliding of my own previous path turned out to be something I had only seen on TV. I was Seging through imaginary cones and moguls as I performed my Glide with True Grace, the result of which appeared to be, Seg Snow Circles or but for the lack of green fields, Snow Crop Circles.

And Frank thanks to you, I decided to load my IPod (windows version), with So Happy Together and Kung Fu Fighting (thanks KaZaa) just to help add that extra smoothness to my Glide. And yes I always monoski with my mp3 player.

Once you Glide the Snow your Glide Will Truly Truly Flow.

<center>The GlideMaster</center>
<center>http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete/1267/gif/segway.gif</center>
<center>Glide On</center>

[Brooster]

GlideMaster, did you forget to take your glide-itis medication again today? [:P]

Brooster

[Brooster]

quote:Originally posted by MrTechno

I've done some snow riding without a problem. I was pretty cautious because these tires are designed for many types of riding....but trekking thru the snow is not on the list. I've been out twice in snow....made a lot of Segway snowcircles (what you get when you pivot 360 degrees in place)....went at a good speed but stopped and turned with caution.

I had no problems, had a ball and videotaped it to capture the unique tracks an HT leaves in the snow. How downright geeky!


Sounds downright fun! [8D]

Brooster

[GlideMaster]

Brooster you're getting forgetful in your old age. Remember: Gliding IS the medication of the Glide Gods.

<center>The GlideMaster</center>
<center>http://www.geocities.co.jp/Athlete/1267/gif/segway.gif</center>
<center>Glide On</center>
quote:Originally posted by Brooster

GlideMaster, did you forget to take your glide-itis medication again today? [:P]

Brooster

[Brooster]

Yeah, you're right ... I'm just jealous. LOL!

Brooster

[J10]

Dont Segway on slippery surfaces...
nor your car, bike or feet, all will slip and cause accidents

Dont walk your dog on a Segway...
Same reason you don't walk your dog by bike or car, meet mr. mailbox/tire

Dont allow a child on the Segway...
Nor a car, and unless they are practiced and mature, a bike. And nothing on any street

Dont carry your baby on your back while on a Segway...
Or a bike or any activity that requires balance

Dont use it in the snow...
Sounds more like a recommendation to me, but for the same reasons that you don't ride bikes in the snow and car driving becomes dangerous, you lose traction

Mostly though these recommendations sound like the lawyer-recommended standard safety warnings attached to any product these days, though I'm sure alot of q-tips are used just on the outside of the ear too. ;)

[bicycledriver]

I think the biggest obstacle to greater commuter use of the Segway is the warning to not travel at night. This is just a cop-out for the manufacturer not having provided a decent headlight and rear lamp.

As for snow use, I'd like to see what those snow tires look like. I've cycled in the snow and it can be fun on a well-equipped bike. See the ICEBIKE web site at http://www.enteract.com/~icebike/

-Steve Goodridge

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by bicycledriver

I think the biggest obstacle to greater commuter use of the Segway is the warning to not travel at night.


FWIW, the nighttime warning is being ignored by some Segway/DEKA employees in Manchester. However, Segway spottings have become much rarer in the past couple of weeks. There has been so much snow that most of the sidewalks are barely unusable.

Runnin' with the Big Dogs

[n/a]

quote:Sounds more like a recommendation to me, but for the same reasons that you don't ride bikes in the snow and car driving becomes dangerous, you lose traction

I have ridden my bike in snow. I have also ridden a moped. My personal experience was that it was not more dangerous than walking, especially when using winter tires. I was hoping that the same could be said for Segway by those who have ridden them.

quote:I think the biggest obstacle to greater commuter use of the Segway is the warning to not travel at night.

Where did u see that bicycledriver? Though the manufacturer does not provide lights for Segway, any user is free to mount lights on the Segway or even on their head.

[bicycledriver]

quote:Originally posted by Lawrence
quote:I think the biggest obstacle to greater commuter use of the Segway is the warning to not travel at night.

Where did u see that bicycledriver? Though the manufacturer does not provide lights for Segway, any user is free to mount lights on the Segway or even on their head.


PT says the Segway user manual warns/advises against Segway operation after dark.

Several years ago the family of an unlighted night cyclist who was struck by a left-turning driver sued the bicycle manufacturer, claiming that the reflectors gave the cyclist a false sense of security when they were in fact grossly indadequate for night visibility (one must use a headlamp.) Since then, bicycle manufacturers have been putting warning labels on bicycles that say "don't ride at night."

I think Segway's lawyers are just following this trend, treating customers like children rather than educating or empowering them to operate safely after sunset and before sunrise.

Steve Goodridge

[charmed]

"I think Segway's lawyers are just following this trend, treating customers like children rather than educating or empowering them to operate safely after sunset and before sunrise."

Steve, I don't agree. I think they are simpling taking the path of least resistence when introducing this radical new product. They knew it would be a tough road onto the sidewalks, and thus chose to introduce them first to the day workers, then to the public and the sidewalks at large. If they are accepted during daylight hours with any measure of success, then night riding comes naturally (and less litigiously) later. I believe that had they chosen to put them on a lighting par with, say, motor scooters, the sidewalk victories would have been much harder to come by. It is marketed to co-exist with pedestrians....they aren't shipped with lights, either.

Just like with the bicycle industry (for now), you supply your own lights. Snazzy high vis. factory lights will no doubt follow, should Segway suceed on its present course.

[bicycledriver]

quote:Originally posted by charmed
...It is marketed to co-exist with pedestrians....they aren't shipped with lights, either.

Just like with the bicycle industry (for now), you supply your own lights. Snazzy high vis. factory lights will no doubt follow, should Segway suceed on its present course.


The Segway is being marketed as "empowering" pedestrians. One thing that pedestrians don't have by default, which would really improve their safety, is better lighting. Most pedestrians do travel at night part of the time. Nighttime pedestrians and unlit nighttime cyclists are greatly overrepresented in crash data. And most day workers in New Hampshire do travel home in darkness during winter months.

The bicycle industry does require cyclists to add their own lights to most bikes. But most bikes don't come with their own generous supply of electrical power. The Segway does. Lastly, useful lights plus a battery system or generator would represent about 5%-50% of the price of a bicycle, but adding lights to the Segway would add less than 1% to the price of a Segway.

The omission of a headlamp or tail lamp from the Segway looks like an attempt to avoid giving people the impression that the Segway is a vehicle. I believe both the impression and the omission will adversely affect safety and destination access for Segway owners.

Regards,
Steve Goodridge

[charmed]

"The omission of a headlamp or tail lamp from the Segway looks like an attempt to avoid giving people the impression that the Segway is a vehicle. I believe both the impression and the omission will adversely affect safety and destination access for Segway owners."

Guess we'll just have to wait and see, Steve. I'm of the opinion that had they outfitted the product with lights ala a moped, for instance, then they would have had a very difficult time getting the special considerations for sidewalk use. It was, and continues to be, a very tricky concept to introduce to a skeptical trans. status quo.

Their success so far isn't perfect, but from where I sit it is very impressive. I think the story would be different had they gone with a scooter-type lighting set-up.

[BruceWright]

Charmed,

Years ago automobile manufacturers fought against installing seatbelts because it gave drivers the impression that the cars were not safe.

I'd rather they designed for safety, and let impressions be damned.