Some People Can't Glide

[defenbaugh]

Short Story-My wife can't glide.

Long Story-Early on I knew my wife didn't share my enthusiasm for the HTi. We took the orientation together and she watched as I had my first face plant and cleaned me up after the second face plant. By this time my expertise guaranteed there would be no more face plants and I consider myself quite proficient gliding.

A good buy blessed me with a second HTi. I missed the first SegwayFest in lieu of a prior commitment. The second is in our plans and I told my wife she couldn't go unless she learned to ride and was able to participate in some of the Segfest events. Bless her soul, she has tried to learn to glide. After several months, no spills and no advancement in learning. She is tense, hits all potholes etc. at the wrong speed and still makes jerky turns. I have decided she will never be comfortable on an HTi.

Question-Are there other chatters that have experienced riders that will never be gliders?

Ron
"Literacy requires reading, change requires effort and enlightenment requires courage."

[opti6600]

Ron, I did training for a while with a whole bunch of people. The trick is to watch very carefully what she does, and try to just walk her through it - it's a matter of just "letting go" on her part and doing what needs to be done, and also on your part being there right in front (on foot!) to help out.

However, in terms of jerky turns - something I realized is that a lot of people try to let go of the steering grip when they make a turn to bring back to center. It springs back faster than they can react, and just looks bad. Try to get her to always bring it back slowly to center with her hand, and do a -lot- of slalom practice.

Hope this helps! I mean, heck, even my dad can glide...well...use a Segway at least...maybe gliding isn't the right word...

-Jordan

[defenbaugh]

Jordan-Thanks much, but it is beyond that. We glide every night, she is on her own and too tense. My helping only makes it worse, so I am to the hands off stage. She just doesn't get it and you evidently aren't married as spouses don't take spouses advice well.;>

Ron
"Literacy requires reading, change requires effort and enlightenment requires courage."

[Segway City]

Could be the "parent teaches child to drive" syndrome. Is it possible she associates gliding with negative energy? Has she ever had a chance to glide in a purely social environment without you around? Maybe the location is wrong for her style of riding? Ever had a chance to do a large flea market or other locale with items specifically of interest to her (very low speed)?

I don't believe for a moment (optimist that I am) that there is such a creature as the "one who cannot glide". I do believe, however, there are plenty who haven't the desire or motivation to do so. JMHO

You have to give her credit for hanging in there, maybe even a commendation:

For gallantry in action by tending the wounds of a fallen comrade while in the midst of battle with the foe beast machine!

[TedS]

Ron, I know what you mean. I recently got another HT for my wife. She hasn't or won't learn to trust the machine. "It" does things that she can't control. She had a problem going uphill. The HT kept going backwards down the hill. I could not convince her to lean more forward to go up the hill. Even trying to get her to put one foot more forward on the platform to make going up easier.

I think we will have to start all over on flat and level ground and just practice basic operation.

Ted

You won't find anything if you are not looking for something.

[SegwayUtah]

Ron,

It's almost certainly a matter of trust in the machine. Since you and the machine parted ways in an ungraceful manner (two!) times early on, I'm guessing that didn't help things :)

It's very, very rare that I find a person who doesn't ride well. And it seems to universally be that they don't trust the machine completely (note: except for some people who don't have quite sufficient mental or physical abilities to ride).

I find people sometimes who have learned how to "drive" a Segway. They get on my HT and start making some agressive manuevers. Then, I teach them how to "ride" it (i.e. be one with the Segway HT, as cute as that sounds). Almost universally, they say "wow, that's such a much better way to ride!"

What I would do it let her practice a whole bunch in the house. Don't teach her to lean forwards and backwards to move. Do this:

___ be in about a 12x12 foot open space ___
1. Tell her that she should ride the machine, not drive it. You'll teach her how. Make sure you start her in black key. Seriously.
2. Have her stand behind the machine, and put her hands on the handlebar grips.
3. Hold tight on the front of the machine. Tell her "your first instinct may be to balance the machine. Don't. It will balance you."
4. Tell her to step up, one foot at a time, and look at you--not at the ground.
5. To see if she's centered on the platform, see where she is standing. She should be a bit closer to the front than to the back. You can also take her hands off the grips and hold them in yours (you are her husband, so that's alright -- hee hee). If you feel her pulling backwards or forwards, have her step a bit in the opposite direction. Both feet should be the same distance front-to-back.
6. If you're on a flat surface, you may let her rock the machine back and forth slowly so that she can learn that the machine really will hold her up. If you rock the machine back and forth gently, you can tell if she's relaxed. If she is not relaxed, it will be very hard to ride. She'll, um, be really tense and turn jerkily and . . . :) She doesn't have to "bend" her knees, but she needs to be relaxed, like she was just casually standing around.
7. Now, let go of her and ask her to think towards you. Walk backwards slowly. She should start to follow you.
8. Put both hands up in the air and tell her to "now, think stop."
9. Now, ask her to "think backwards." Put your hands up and walk towards her, getting in her personal space just a bit. She should move backwards.
10. Ask her to stop again, and come forwards. She should come forwards easily this time.
11. Now, tell her that turning the grip (not the handlebars) will let her turn in place. Turning left will turn to the left, right to the right. Tell her that the farther she turns, the faster she will turn. Since she is in black key mode, tell her that it won't move really fast, and that she should start out by barely turning. Tell her that it's important to be graceful in turning. "Just like we don't walk and turn abruptly while we're walking."
12. Let her turn both ways in place until she's comfortable, and then have her follow you around as you move around.

Once she's gone through this, let her practice a bit. Take her outdoors with you, in black mode, until she's completely comfortable. THEN let her graduate up to yellow key. You really have to make sure she's comfortable before taking her to a higher speed. I know that means you'll have to go slowly with her outdoors, but it's only for a few days/weeks :)

Once she gets comfortable in a controlled setting, you can go ahead and tell her that she can lean in the direction she wants to go. Seriously, even if she just "thinks forward," she'll probably adjust her speed to the speed you're going if you just ask her to "stay with you." Once she's comfortable with all this, hills should be no problem.

Anyway, I hope that helps. If I was there, I could explain the process better. Maybe if I make it out to Missouri sometime, we can play :)

Chris

[SegwayUtah]

quote:Originally posted by defenbaugh
She is tense, hits all potholes etc. at the wrong speed and still makes jerky turns. I have decided she will never be comfortable on an HTi.


P.S.

This is the perfect example of a person who doesn't trust the machine. When I was young, I learned how to swim in an outdoor swimming pool. But when they filled it in and built an indoor pool, I totally freaked out. I went from diving and swimming back to the beginner class. It was all psychological. I just didn't trust my abilities to swim, probably.

Chris

[defenbaugh]

Chris and Ted, you have hit it dead on. She will not trust the machine and we've talked about it.

Ted, your wife sounds like mine. My belief is that I get her down to Bonnita Springs with the cool, breeze, Malibu lights, palm trees waving in the wind with a pack of other gliders and she will forget about trying to "control" it and just go with the flow.

I've had employees with machinery such as a new printer that they just fight. My experience is that when this type person "gets the hang" of it, they love it and master it. This is my hope for my wife.

Segway City-You may also have something. She doesn't have the desire or motivation. I'm hoping the desire and motivation will arrive if she gets the "feel" and quits trying to control.

Thanks everyone for the help. I'm still interested if others (other than Ted and me) are seeing this problem.

Ron
"Literacy requires reading, change requires effort and enlightenment requires courage."

[Burke]

What key is she on when she's doing jerky turns? How fast is she going? Does she know to "lean into" the turns?

I quickly realized the red key was too jerky for me (or I was not smooth enough to control it without jerking), so I went to a modified key with black turning and am quite happy with that. It's hard to imagine turning jerkily on a black key, but does she know to slow down and lean into it?

I agree, she just doesn't trust it. Especially going uphill--that's the best part of all on a Segway!

But I give her lots of credit for hanging in there and giving it her best effort.

Spouse teaching spouse isn't always the best idea. (Speaking from experience--ask Dick how I am with a stick shift!) Maybe she needs to start over with a new trainer if at all possible.

Janice

[defenbaugh]

Janice-We have graduated up to the red key, but it doesn't matter what key. She doesn't grasp the linear action of the turning handle. She thinks she has to jerk it and let it return. This is hard to explain since each poster can't know the personallity of my wife. I think TedS gets the idea. I was just curious if there were others. And, yes, Janice, I am very proud of her for trying. I think she knows how important it is to me and therein may be the problem.

Other than Ted, I think Chris has the right idea. It is probably the teacher and not the pupil who has the problem. It comes so easy to me and I don't have the patience required.

Again, I was just curious if others knew of people that couldn't glide. Evidently not. ;>

Ron
"Literacy requires reading, change requires effort and enlightenment requires courage."

[Florida Ever-Glides]

I teach many people of all ages every day. The first and most important thing that I try to instill is Trust & Relax. If you can do both of those things and not be tense, you can easily learn to ride the Segway. try hving her ride directly behind you and fro her to follow your smooth riding technique. Keep speaking to her during the turns giving both direction and encouragement. This way she can practice riding following your smooth turns and going up and down inclines comfortably. This method work very well in the over 2,000 people taught in the last 5 months. give it a try and see what happens. Another thing would to be to walk along side whils she goes smoothly through several spaced low cones.

Be patient, she will come around and then you won't be able to keep up with her....

Tom Jacobson

[opti6600]

Did somebody mention parents teaching their kids to drive? Hah, going through that one now - scary food for thought - me behind the wheel of a 5500 pound steel brick. w00t.

Aside from that, I'll second Tom's remark - he's done a lot of training (we'd hope!) in public scenarios too, and he offers another piece of valid advice. The biggest thing is trust in the machine. A lot of us don't have that problem, since we or somebody we know has done something reckless or somewhat insane in their own backyards and in doing so, has tested the limits of this machine which we all love. However, those that don't trust or know of these other scenarios are likely to take the 4-wheel mentality of "ack! two wheels! death! doom! destruction!" when they step on.

One of the things I occasionally do (very sparingly) with my friends and peers at school is to give a good, strong, push to the person to get them to realize that they aren't going to very easily keel over on this thing. Although I strongly caution you to make sure you don't have any other friends hanging around ready to push them even harder...bad things happen.

Ron, you really need to just take the understanding route here (as does your wife, I think, although I'm not about to become a marital relations counselor here) and hit your backyard a bit, roam around, but make sure that she's on the HT and you're on foot. There's no other easy way to do this, I think. Some cautious follow the leader, perhaps?

[Burke]

Personally, no, we've never demo'ed to anyone who just couldn't get it. Everyone seems to figure it out pretty instantly.

Put her back on the black key and tell her to just SQUEEZE the handle left or right to turn, and SQUEEZE it back to straighten out. Is she squeezing with a good grip by her whole hand? Make sure she doesn't try any turns while she's moving fast, no matter how YOU are doing it, and lean into all turns by bending her knees, moreso with the knee heading into the turn. Practically sit into it if that helps.

It's GOT to work! Personally I still feel the red key turning speed is freaking her out. It did me.

Janice

[Sal]

My Ex couldn't get it, I had her try at least a dozen times off and on... But I attribute that to major disinterest on her part.

I could picture an external trainer coming to the spouses' homes as the husbands watch:

This trainer is 6"3' and looks like Tom Cruise, the wives are giggling and giddy, while the husbands fix themselves a scotch on the rocks!

-Sal

Think Different
www.apple.com

Answers that Matter
www.lilly.com


http://home.earthlink.net/~sal1k/images/si2f.jpg

[SegwayUtah]

Janice,

I did a demo once for a woman who was really, really terrified. I don't know why she stepped up on the machine in the first place, but she wouldn't even try to turn. She was shaking. Seriously.

Also, I find that sometimes people start laughing because the experience is so cool and unreal. It's really hard for them to "think forwards" and subconsciously operate the machine when they're laughing, so these demos take a bit of extra care: I either work with them to calm down a bit, or I resort to having them put weight on their heels/toes to move :)

Ron: some people don't have fine motor control. I'm assuming this isn't your wife's case, but if she exhibits the same "jerkiness" in walking and in driving and other ways in life, I expect it'll stay that way for the HT. Otherwise, there's hope :)

Chris

[BruceWright]

"We" graduated up to the red key?


Says it all.



It ain't the student. It's the teacher.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[defenbaugh]

quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

"We" graduated up to the red key?


Says it all.



It ain't the student. It's the teacher.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream


Bruce-I'm sure you and others are correct with this point. Deb and I joke about it quite often. The poster with the "stick shift" story hit a note with us also. I'm backing off and going to let her tell me when she's ready. Again, my fear is she never will. Oh, well, someday there will be more HT's out here to glide with. Thanks all.

Ron
"Literacy requires reading, change requires effort and enlightenment requires courage."

[Segway City]

One way to cure the "jerk" is to advise her to grasp the turning grip with the bottom/inside of her thumb backed up against the raised "indicator" portion of the movable grip. That way, she's actually gripping the back edge of the stationary T-bar while holding the grip in the bottom of her palm. When she turns, she'll have to fight the friction of the bar vs. the spring of the grip and give her a point of reference as to how far the grip has been twisted. I call this the "white knuckle grip" when used by new riders, but they generally do so with the indicator bump resting against the top of the thumb, rather than under it. If she "tweaks" the grip with her forefingers, she'll turn past the point needed almost every time, then scare herself and let loose, causing a violent return to center.

In baseball parlance: she's trying to hit a homer instead of an infield hit. Tell her to choke up on the bat!

[4Seg]

Ron,
Perhaps this suggestion:

Many people are tense because of a simple fact that we are use to controlling things with our hands and arms. I immediately notice this in about 50 of the demos I give.

Most folks "get it" when I have them do one simple thing. (now, I make sure I'm am right in front of them ready to grab the control shaft.)

Here's what helps, Tell her:
Breath! Relax. Keep your head up. Let go of the steering grips. (Folks normally keep their hands above the grips.) "Think forward." (not lean b/c they will try to lean, but won't change their center of gravity and won't move). "Think Stop." Then have her put her hands back on.

If you already haven't tried this, you'll see a light turn on followed by a smile. :-)

As far as the jerky turns, I normally tell folks to think of steering with their elbow instead of their wrist.

just my .02



mike

[BruceWright]

Relaxing and taking it slow should do.

I didn't move from black until I stopped jerking. Then yellow. It took me awhile, and I'm quite techno savvy.

It's very very tough to teach technology to a loved one, if the loved one is shy in the ways of technology. It takes a lot of patience from the both of you.

OH, but it'll be great when you're both gliding together. Do you have any "roll" models? A great couple like the Burkes gliding together that she can see and meet, and realize it's not scary at all?!!

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[defenbaugh]

Bruce-don't have any "roll" models here in Mt. Idyville. That's why it's important to have my buddy (wife) "roll" with me.

Actually she either did better tonight or I subconsciously took everyone's advice and relaxed.

Ron
"Literacy requires reading, change requires effort and enlightenment requires courage."

[vanclute]

I know I'm just echoing here, but... it's absolutely completely and utterly 100% all about TRUST. My girlfriend is still very nervous on her "p" and has only spent probably 20 minutes on it in the month+ since I got it for her. She knows consciously that it's all about trust (which she's not good at when it comes to vehicles - bad "Carma" if you know what I mean ;) and thankfully, she DOES really like it and wants to get better at it. But trusting a machine to suddenly take over something you've been doing since you were about 12 months old is very much not easy for some people. To be honest, early on it didn't help that I was on my Seg and smoothly zipping around doig whatever I wanted to do without even thinking about it. Seeing how fluid and easy it was seemed to actually make her have a HARDER time on it, rather than an easier time. Maybe the best thing in your case is to just let her out into the backyard on her own (with you within earshot of course) and just let her get a feel for it... as someone else said, to be "one" with the machine. That's really what it takes. ANd once you acheive it, you really DO feel like you're "one", as you might know yourself.

I find that with my handlebars down low where I prefer them, the machine is actually outside my peripheral vision while I'm gliding, and I really do merely consider it an extension of my body. It's so incredibly natural... for *me*. Your glideage may vary. =)

J

[askpatj]

Hello Ron,

I'm currently having your issue of a couple years ago with my girlfriend. And I was wondering if your wife ever 'got' it. Is there hope?

Thanks,

Pat

[unclejay]

you had 2 face plants ? why ? could it have something to do with your approach to the machine also ? Maybe you're teaching her incorrectly.

Telling her she couldnt go unless she learned to glide - well I guess that will give her enough hidden resentment to squash the whole deal.

I find that women do better than men becasue they dont try to master the machine.

I would let someone else teach her.

[terryp]

My wife went with me to training three years ago, took to gliding right off, and seemed to enjoy it. Being gawked at was the only thing she didn't enjoy.

I bought a p-series for her about two years ago. We rode together in parades, did some group glides, did a TV spot, gave lots of demos, etc., and she didn't show any sign of being uncomfortable.

Then about a year ago she decided that gliding downhill was scary, and I caught her dragging one foot to slow down. She claims she's always been uncomfortable going downhill, even on her bike, but she used to glide downhill over root lifts that were scary to me on the i, and it didn't phase her.

The next thing I knew, she was having trouble going uphill. Now, I can hardly get her to step on at all. She's never had a close call, and doesn't understand what changed her attitude.