Fuel Cell Powered Segway

[Segway City]

Researched for Dept. of Defense, this 32 lb. gadget recharges the batteries while you glide, doubling range:

http://www.dodfuelcell.com/article_010604.html

Additional pix:
http://www.fctec.com/fctec_projdetails.asp?ID=21

In the days of $5000 hammers, this baby's gotta be $150K.



Seg-Whey... "Atkins Friendly"

[Ground Loop]

Yeah! Nice find, that's awesome. 35lbs and it actually does power the HT as well as charge the NiMH cells. They must have had to tie in deeper than just the 110v charge port.
700W power from a 2l hydrogen tank.

The pictures are neat. Looks quite tangible.

Cost, well...

[gotseg]

I remember seeing a picture of this a bit ago. Very very cool!
Wonder how much electricity can be produced with one bottle of hydrogen?

If only hydrogen was as common as the Gas at the pump!



http://www.giguphosting.com/gotseg/gotseg.gif

[pkradd]

TechTV did a feature on it today.

[ions82]

I can't wait until this becomes a reality. Won't 1L of hydrogen run the motors for a week or so? I remember reading about this a while ago. I'll keep my eye out for it on eBay.

[stockman]

Sounds like that suitcase sized powerplant could run your house.

[dhugger]

Unfortunately, right now this would be illegal in many states. A lot of the laws say that no EPAMD shall carry on it hazardous material including compressed gasses. I'm sure that'll change if the HT is powered by a fuel cell though. Here's to the future!

http://segwaychat.com/photos/dhugger/dhugger2.gif

[Segway City]

Magnetek has actually gone to the next step: incorporating the entire fuel cell in the platform base. Once it's incorporated in the structure, it'd have to be legal, I'd guess.

[SegwayUtah]

Segway City, Magnetek said they were working on Segway power solutions way back in 2002, but I haven't seen anything. Do you have a link to what they're doing? That would be _awesome_!

Chris

[Ground Loop]

You realize, of course, that this hydrogen fuel cell rig that "doubles the range" is larger and weighs more than, say, a second set of standard batteries.

[ElectraGlide]

If you have interest in Hydrogen powered fuel cells there's a company called Ballard Power Systems ( same words web search to the home page). They make electric fuel cells that are portable, along with industrial and vehicular cells. You can browse the products they manufacture and are available to the public today for home use! Also consider reading the book "The Hydrogen Economy" by Jeremy Rifkin.... a real eye opener. Anyway, I have stock in Ballard, I want to support the development to clean fuel sources-clean air and the end of our dependence on arab oil.

Steve

[solarseg]

Ground Loop, fuel cells produce dc voltages just like batteries which you can use a inverter if you need/want to. All they did was parrallel the batteries to charge the batteries or run the segway directly.

[ZoliHonig]

That's cool and all, but who wants two huge breifcases sitting on their fenders?!?!?


[8]-Zoli[8]

[ions82]

I'D rather have those two huge "briefcases" than have to worry about all the power problems that people are having: reconditioning, "towing" the Seg home, $600 batteries....... Granted, a the cost of a fuel cell could probably buy a lifetime supply of Segway batteries, but that might not be the case in a few (10) years. I'll take the briefcases. Also, isn't that just an "e" with one of the cases replaced by a fuel cell?

[SegwayUtah]

ions,

Just FYI, I don't think there are really any major issues with the batteries. It's mostly just that we're all trying to squeeze every last ounce out of our batteries because we're such big enthusiasts.

There are a few people who have had some abnormal issues, which could have been caused because of a bad battery or bad charging/usage advice, but all in all I think we're really happy with them. Especially the batteries that are coming with HTs these days--they seem to do wonderful.

Chris

[ions82]

Yeah. You're probably right. I'm sure there are FAR more people that are completely happy with the range and/or battery life. While I don't yet own a Segway, I'm completely set on owning one. It's just the initial investment is quite large for me. A new "i" would be exactly have of my current yearly income. Batteries within a year would be out of the question. In addition, I'm one of the folks with a disability (which eliminates the option of pulling a Seg home.) Nothin' like bein' broke and crippled! Anyway, those are my two main concerns that urge me to wait until some improvements have been made to the batteries before I try to make a purchase.

[dhugger]

Personally, I can't wait to see those capacitor batteries perfected (they were talked about in another thread). They can be charged super fast and can be charged/discharged an ininite number of times, unlike NiMH which only last 300-500 cycles.

http://segwaychat.com/photos/dhugger/dhugger2.gif

[Ground Loop]

If the batteries are good for 300-500 cycles, and cost $600 a set, it follows that each ride on my HT costs between $1 and $2?

That's not so attractive. I can cover the same ten miles in a car for less, and much less on a motorcycle. I know they're not the same, but battery replacement costs currently make the HT the MOST EXPENSIVE transportation option available.

This is indeed a worthwhile concern. Something better is needed for power. Either cheaper to replace, or longer-lived.

[ions82]

Can someone post a link to the thread in which the "capacitor" batteries were discussed? I must've missed that one. I'd guess that it's a lithium ion battery with capacitors to provide the quick power that the Seg needs. Sounds interesting.

[wayne]

quote:Originally posted by Ground Loop

If the batteries are good for 300-500 cycles, and cost $600 a set, it follows that each ride on my HT costs between $1 and $2?

Something better is needed for power. Either cheaper to replace, or longer-lived.


I got an E-Mail about 6 weeks ago from someone asking if they make a Seg battery for around $100.00 would it sell? I haven't heard anymore from them. Maybe someone soon will get some help for us.
I understand why LLC has the price up there, they are just trying to get their investment back as soon as possible.
When making a product on a small scale you have to keep the price up. The amount of Segs that have been sold is a small amount for what LLC has invested and that is why I don't see the price of the batteries coming down anytime soon.


Seg-On
Wayne

[SegwayUtah]

Ground Loop,

It costs me about $2.50 to $3.00 to go 10 miles in a car. Your results may vary, but $0.25 to $0.40 a mile for a reasonably new car is pretty typical.

This is for gas and wear and tear. Most of the wear and tear on an HT is in the batteries, which is where you see that cost. It is more economical than a car most of the time.

The batteries should get even better and more cost effective as time goes on, and the price to run oil-based cars is bound to do nothing but go up, up, up.

Chris

[beckpm]

quote:Originally posted by ions82

Can someone post a link to the thread in which the "capacitor" batteries were discussed? I must've missed that one. I'd guess that it's a lithium ion battery with capacitors to provide the quick power that the Seg needs. Sounds interesting.

I can't find the exact link but it had something to do with the quote below from a Japanese Company:
"A Japanese research institute is working on a new type of capacitor with a much larger energy storage capacity than conventional models.
The capacitor Prof. Okamura developed with JEOL engineers last October features already 88 watt-hours of mass energy density per kilogram, about 10 times that of conventional capacitors.
Unlike batteries, capacitors do not degrade over time and they charge much quicker. They could become a next-generation power supply that replaces batteries in the future.
Full Story appeared in The Nikkei Business Daily Friday edition."

<div align="right">http://www.segwaychat.com/photos/beckpm/segsig.GIF</div id="right">

[ions82]

Would there be any dangers to using capacitors for a continuous power supply? I'm not an expert on such topics. However, the limited experience I do have with capacitors has shown me that they can be charged quickly, but also unload their charge very quickly. I heard stories of people dropping a conductor (screwdriver/wrench) on the contacts of a capacitor, watching a very short "light show", and ending up with a wrench "welded" on to the top of the capacitor. That was only at something like 1 farad. Does anyone have knowledge as to how capacitors could be used to power a Seg? I don't forsee it happening. Just curious.

[SegwayUtah]

With the "new world" of super-capacitors, I think it could become possible to use them as battery replacements for just about anything.

. . . if we can make them safe (which hopefully isn't a big issue)
. . . if we can make them work in the "real world" (temperatures, etc.)
. . . if we can make them economical

It's probably only a matter of time. Isn't technology awesome?

Chris