Re-boot Relief

[Florida Ever-Glides]

Does anyone know if Segway LLC is planning to locate a simple re-boot switch in a convenient location on a new model? I have 9 machines and it sometimes is embarrasing to take-the-thing-apart during a tour. It only takes a moment to correct (re-boot) but it just makes good sense to place a button near the handgrip. Any suggestions?

Tom Jacobson

[Ground Loop]

I think they should fix the dang DEFECT so a reboot isn't necessary. It's not like this isn't a known bug. If you see some guy on the side of the road with a control shaft in one hand and a hex key in the other, frustrated look on his face, well, that's me.

One thing I intend to try next time is the "Emergency Shutdown" trick. You know.. Lick your thumb and index finger. Press your thumb into the key socket and rub the black screw under the handlebar with your index finger.

This is a 100% effective way to cause the machine to panic and shut down. I'm curious to know if it will get the machine out of the "Beep, I'm Ignoring You" mode.

[wayne]

All you need to do is splice into the wires and install a toggle switch. Probably only need to cut one or two wires but which ones is the question. LLC could be nice and let us know which wires to splice into but I don't think they are interested in helping with the problem of re-booting.
Re-booting and the 12.0 software and battery power seem to be the major problems with the Seg at this time. Maybe if enough of us complained they would see the light and give us some help.


Seg-On
Wayne

[dhugger]

One way to figure out which wire does what is to play around with a volt/am meter. I'm sure you could figure out which cables are power, which connect to the key port, etc. One word of warning though, if anyone is gonna try this, TAKE THE BATTERIES OUT FIRST. you could accidentally fry something if you connect the power to a data input or something.... wait, on second thought, unless you're an electrical engineer, don't try it.

-Derek Hugger-

[SegwayUtah]

Is it possible that the "beep-no-start" issue was with the earlier cables (static tolerance or something) in the control shaft? I have the "new style" cables in the control shaft and powerbase on my new HT, and while I do still get "beep-no-start" I can simply wait a few seconds and then she'll start up fine.

My old machine would consistently make me take it apart and reboot on the occasions when I got "beep no start."

Does anyone with the new-style cables had to restart?

Chris

[dgbint]

Hang on a minute !!

I am an electrical engineer, with some experience on products with embedded control.
I strongly suggest that you DO NOT install an external re-boot switch.
I can only guess at the horror with which the talented team at LLC might view such activity.

Safety is a prime consideration with HTs.

What if anyone accidently bumped the reset switch whilst a glider was present ( let alone moving ) ?
Face plant is the likely result.
What would the insurance comapny people say, if somebody was hurt and the unit had been 'messed with' ?????

Michael

[wayne]

Most would know to put the switch in a hard to get place or even better have it operated with a key to turn off and on.
That may be the reason LLC didn't not install a switch. They didn't know you could activate it with the turn of a key.


Seg-On
Wayne

[gotseg]

I agree with dgint, an exteranl reboot button on the CS could make one hell of a problem. But I also dont think you should have to go opening your segway to reboot it. Almost any electroic device has a 'reset' button at the end of a paperclip size hole. This could be placed under the charging flap (just make sure you dont stick the paperclip in the wrong hole!). Im sure LLC could find a nice place to put it. Altho, the best fix, would be to get rid of the need to reboot your segway.

gotseg?

No profit grows where is no pleasure ta'en:
In brief, sir, study what you most affect.

[Phil]

What usually leads up to the need for a reboot?
I seem to remember that it is trying to restart the HT too soon after the previous shutdown, is this correct/
If not what has been your results regarding what "causes" the need to reboot. How can i force my HT to need a reboot?
I'm trying to recreate this problem.
Help me,....

Phil Webb
"Cherry IT Driver"

[Ground Loop]

Phil: You have the right idea.. it's usually (not always) caused by putting a new key in before the Segway is fully off. Others have reported that it can happen even after an overnight rest, but my own experience has been just on quick restarts.

Unfortunately, this is pretty common when giving demos, switching from the red key to black and back. I'm usually in a bit of a rush anyway, which doesn't help.

Just keep powering up and down and you'll see it.

[Phil]

I have now been able to get the HT to give some error beep upon restart soon after shutdown. (it gives an error type beep and then does not enter into power assist mode) but i have then been able to start the HT after that with a key, without having to remove/reinstall shaft.
Will keep experimenting,...


Phil Webb
"Cherry IT Driver"

[SegwayUtah]

Phil,

When did you get your HT? You've sure been on the board since the early days :)

Chris

[Florida Ever-Glides]

My re-boot problems happen randomly with the 9 units, usually trying to restart after a 10-15 minute break at the middle of our tour. It can happen on 11.0 version and the 12.0.

It is just a random occurence. I like the idea of a re-boot pin hole that would be safely covered by the plug flap.

Tom Jacobson

[Phil]

I received mine on 12-27-02 E-series.
Remember, I'm a Vantage Controls Dealer, Home/Business Automation (their also located in Orem)
DEKA research is a Vantage customer.
We've developed a voice control system/ open air mic and or telephone
control over lighting,security and anything else that's powered by Electricity.
Someday i'd like to install a Voice control system for DEKA to work along with their Vantage System. "Computer," "Yes Dean,.. how can i assist you this evening?" "Open my hanger doors,... i'd like to take the Brantly for a spin" "Well Dean the weather shows low ceilings in the Manchester Area,.. would you still like me to open the hanger doors?" Etc
We're actually doing this in my house (not hanger doors, just garage doors) anyway it's really neat.


Phil Webb
"Cherry IT Driver"

[SegwayUtah]

Phil,

I feel silly. We talked about this before. Wow, over a year and no reboots. Good deal! I haven't had to reboot my new i-series once in almost a month.

Chris

[Segway City]

Phil: Reminds me of an early voice-operated-everything client I had in the mid '90's when ViaVoice was the big thing. We installed a CTI voicemail in his office and he listened to his vmail over his PC speakers (almost unheard of technology then!) His buddies would leave him voicemail messages like "Computer!....C Drive!...Format Backslash U!"

He hated his friends..... ;)

[ronzul]

A little bit annoyed now...

After about five weeks of flawless performance, last Wednesday was the first time it needed a reboot. With this muscular condition I have, I can't take the Segway apart by myself. Fortunately I was with my work colleagues and they helped out.

Today it happened again -- this time my friendly taxidriver helped reboot my machine. But twice in a week is a little annoying.

I guess it would be very hard philosophically for Segway to include a reset switch. On one hand they have to show the world how rocksolid reliable and stable the machine is. How can they say that, and then say "Oh yeah, and just in case the machine goes wonky, we have a little reset switch hidden away..."

I also liked the idea of the reboot pin tucked away inside the power socket housing.

If anyone has any tips on reducing the incidence of Segway coma, please post your suggestions. I am going to always shut down from power assist mode and see if that makes any difference... who knows?

---
Who said that you shouldn't get carried away on your Segway?

[ronzul]

By the way, I haven't noticed this tip on the Segway web site until now...

quote:1. Don't try to rapidly startup your Segway HT after shutting it down. Wait until the display on the handlebar is gone before restarting.

2. If you are unable to restart the Segway HT (possibly because of trying to restart it too quickly), wait at least 30 seconds before trying to restart it again.

3. If you still can't restart your Segway HT, you should try the "key-tap" method. Rapidly tap the Segway HT's key port with the intelligent key repeatedly. The machine will reset and you should hear the handlebar play the same 3 tones you hear when you first plug in the handlebar to the base. When you hear this tone you should pause for 5 seconds and then attempt to restart the Segway HT.

4. If all else fails, please disconnect the control shaft and reattach.


Next time I will try suggestion 3. Has anyone had situations where this didn't help and still needed to disconnect and reconnect the control shaft?

---
Who said that you shouldn't get carried away on your Segway?

[Phil]

I'm working on a solution for this problem. Will be doing some testing today and will let you know how i'm progressing.


Phil Webb
"Cherry IT Driver"

[jrmiller]

Ronzul, I have had one shut down in alsost a yers usee. Lucky Me. But I did try he tap tap tap method to no avail. I still had to separate the CS and disconnect the wires. That is a sure fire method, at least for me. I still like the idea of a conviently "dislocated" switch idea. SEG-ON SEG-RIGHT JR

[GadgetmanKen]

I think that part of the re-boot problems are due to one of several reasons. After hearing of how some do the wet finger trick in the key port and then touching the screw on the base you are basically grounding out the circuit. Which suggests to me that one of the boards (control or handlebar) isn't properly grounded. Unplugging the cords inside the shaft have the same effect as grounding it out.

It may be possible the ground problem may also be in the plug connectors, too. They may become lose after a glide over rough terrain or by raising or lowering the handlebars which stretches the cords, possibly loosening the connections a bit. Is there any cord clamps, tie wraps or rubber bands to hold the connections together? With a rubber band all you would have to do is use a short fat rubber band and take each end and fold it towards the middle making two little loops at each end (like a slip knot) and place one end over the plug on one end and then the other end over the other.

Another problem I've seen with some other computer controled motor driven devices is that when they are shut off they have to have time for the boards stored charge, memory, capacitance, whatever, to die down or discharge. Which is done on a quicker version when the wet finger trick is given. You'll notice this problem when there are idiot lights or LED's that slowly dim to nothing when turned off.

Another cause for re-start is trying to do this while the LED's are diming. They haven't gotten rid of the discharge. And you can't turn it back on till the lights dim completely. At this point I'm wondering if a short chain attached to the screw on the bottom side of the handlebars and the other end attached to say a round shaped paper clip to fit in the shape of the hole in the keyport. Say, having an Segway emblem attached to it dangleing from the screw. I'm not sure something like this will work or not, you take the risk of trying, not me. I don't know if this would cause damage or not because you are shorting something out, either the ground loop or power to the board...
The list goes on and on, but you get some idea to go on to confirm for yourself at your own risk. Its late for me so I may seem to be rambling, so hope this clears up and or gives you some ideas to go on your own with.



"Wouldn't it be cool, if?...is like Folgers in my cup"