Xogen Update

[Kenetic2k4]

Hi guys,

I just wanted to give everyone interested in the activities of Xogen a little update. I noticed a post about Xogen in early December and thought it would be interesting to see some reaction from Xogen's release, at Midnight New Year's Eve, of output numbers. All of the following information can be found at http://www.xogen.ca . It also includes the full report.

Anyway, here are some finding of the Technical Advisory Panel (TAP)


Conventional Electrolysis of water


53.6 Amp hours of current flowing will liberate 22.414 litres of hydrogen gas at 0 degrees C, 1 atm.


Xogen Technology


18 Amp hours of current flowing will liberate approximately 100.2 litres of hydrogen/oxygen gas of which 2/3rds (66.8 litres) is hydrogen and 1/3rd (33.4 litres) is oxygen.


Tested by the Alberta Research Council March 2001.

The TAP has concluded that the technology is not conventional electrolysis as governed by the laws of electrolysis established by Michael Faraday in 1834, because the Xogen technology does not operate within the voltage parameters as defined by Faraday's Law. The Xogen technology produced approximately three (3) times more oxy-hydrogen gas output using approximately one third (1/3) the current used by conventional electrolysis. As a minimum, with the same power input, the gas production that has been achieved with environmental streams tested is similar to what has been achieved with ordinary tap water.

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I would love to hear some opinions about these findings. Also, apparently there is more information to come in the followings days.

-Kenetic

[citivolus]

I find the results suspect.

Firstly because they speak in terms of volumes and not masses and don't provide pressure and temperature data for their "hydrogen/oxygen gas" so it can be compared evenly.

Secondly, they provide some creative analysis of "power efficiency", from their website "The theoretical power efficiency for the electrolysis of water can be calculated in a number of ways." Let me put it this way, so what? Nobody really cares about power effeciency because it doesn't mean anything, the interesting thing is energy effeciency. I can cook a turkey with a candle (low power), but if it takes two weeks, who cares.

Third, they use improper units, "amp hours of current", which sets off my BS alarm.

Finally, their equation
quote:Ideally, 1.47 V is needed, so the ideal power efficiency is:

= (53.6 Ah)(1.47 V)/(0.022414 m³) = 3.52 kWh/m³ of H2 gas at 25 °C, 1 atm (1.013 bar).is pure bovine excrement. Look at their logic, all they did is take their first statement and multiply in a voltage to get amp x volt = watt. But look, they got kilowatt hours (energy) per cubic meter and not watts per cubic meter (which they stated they were doing). All I have to do is up the pressure to something else, let's say 300 bar and I get about 300 times more product for the same energy. Not so you say, why not? Their equation does not involve temperature or pressure and therefore are independant of the task at hand.

I also like the statement that it was "Tested by the Alberta Research Council March 2001." And...?

quote:"the technology is not conventional electrolysis as governed by the laws of electrolysis established by Michael Faraday in 1834, because the Xogen technology does not operate within the voltage parameters as defined by Faraday's Law."Faraday's Law has voltage parameters?! Is that a cow patty I hear forming?

Unless they can come up with real data in terms of mass and real equations I wouldn't consider them to be serious.

All quotes were taken from this page in case anyone wants to read.
http://www.xogen.ca/tests.php

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swiftly flying

[Kenetic2k4]

citivolus, Thanks for your remarks. I find those issues you brought up very interesting. As for pressure and temperature let me direct you to this website for further information. Perhaps this will help with regard to that. It is the ARC report. Of course, it's interesting to note that TTC was suspended for 20 months following the release of this report.


http://www.sedar.com/csfsprod/data24/filings/00344985/00000001/C%3A%5CBAPRA%5CINPUT%5CC2440E.PDF

These next two are files you will have to download and open.

http://files.newswire.ca/123/0405pressure.xls

http://files.newswire.ca/123/0405temp.xls
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Once again, I'd be interested to hear what some people think about the pressure and temperature. I know for a fact that it also raises a lot of skepticism.