Advice?

[secretoftheeast]

Sorry to make the topic too short to figure out, but I am looking for tips and advice on how to approach a business owner (in my case a mall) that disapproves of Segway use and produce effective arguments supporting such use.

I figure theres plenty of people here that have gone through this but that is definitely not me. I am a new Segway owner and I'd like to do my part in keeping Segways allowed everywhere. Any advice (such as points to bring up, how to address the subject, how to word things you want to say, etc) would be EXTREMELY helpful.

Thanks (sorry if its a repost, I did do a search)

[dhugger]

Most malls, unfortunately, disapprove of HTs simply due to the fact that they've got wheels. Even the Mall of New Hampshire, in Manchester (Segway's birthplace) won't allow the machines inside. Most malls are private property and they see the HTs as a big liability. My guess is that the only way you'll get into a mall with one is to bring a doctor's not saying you need the machine for mobility. But... if you're going to meet with the owner of your mall, here's what I'd do: Give him/her a demo. Show the person what the Segway is, how it works, that it’s safe, and that it's pretty darn hard to hurt someone on it. If you accidentally run into someone, the machine will simply stop, and if you're going at a slow walking speed (which you should be in a crowded environment), the person who you bumped into will probably hardly notice. Anyway, like I said, malls haven't really budged too much (like SF, CA) but, it's definitely worth a shot. What've you got to lose, right? Good luck in your endeavor!

-Derek Hugger-

[Sleepy]

Here's my personal take on Seg use in malls:
I use my Seg as transportation from one place to another. But I walk once I get to my destination. My only problems have been finding a safe place to park my Seg, where it won't get stolen or risk getting the kick stand broken. After explaining that in the past other mall customers have attempted to steal my Seg when parked outside, they now let me park it with the baby strollers, where they have an area fenced off and an attendant watching at all times. I think this is the best solution for Segs at malls. Unless you have problems walking around, I don't see a need to ride Segs in malls.

-Alex

[JohnM]

Let me play devil's advocate here and take the role of mall manager.
My first question for you, before you begin your Segway sales pitch, is "Why do you want to ride that thing in my mall?"

I can think of four likely reasons.

1. You have documentented mobility issues.
Because I'm a reasonable guy (and fear the ADA) I'll say OK. But please be careful.

2. You want to increase the distance you can cover in a single trip to the mall.
My response is that the mall not so huge that it can't be totally covered by a healthy adult in a single trip. (Unless this is the Mall of America.) It was designed specifically for foot travel. Again, if there is a mobilty issue involved I'll be reasonable. But if it's just your lack of fitness that limits your ability to walk from one end of my mall and back again, I'll suggest that you take advantage of the fact that we open our doors early so that people looking for safe indoor exercise can use the mall as a walking track.

3. You want to increase your productivity.
RED FLAG! You're saying you want to move faster than the foot-bound shopper. LIABILITY ALERT!
But here's my real reason: I don't want you to zip in, make a couple quick purchases, and zip out. I want you to spend some time spending money. Take your time and look in the windows. Go into every store that looks interesting. Eat in the food court. Let your kids ride the carousel or play in the arcade. My mall is not just a collection of stores, but a carefully designed shopping experience. Once you walk in the door, I want you to spend the rest of the day here. Bottom line: Your 'productivity' runs counter to my business philosophy.

4. You say riding a Segway is fun.
RED FLAG! LIABILITY ALERT! Lots of things are fun, but we don't allow them here. No skateboards, no scooters, no roller blades, no exceptions. You want that kind of fun, there's a nice park down the road.

Advice: Before you meet the mall manager to make your pitch for Segway acceptance, be sure of your own motovation for wanting to glide in his mall.

[secretoftheeast]

JohnM, I assure you that my purposes are only reasonable.

There are no bike racks or supervised (or even high visibility) places to lock my HT against and the area I was at doesn't have the best coverage in terms of security. I have no issues with locking and going by foot as long as I feel secure where it is.

In this case, I did not feel comfortable with leaving it unsupervised and made the decision to bring it into the mall. In my mind, anytime I have time to go to a mall I am not in a hurry and I would not need to cut time.

I have not done anything to provoke management to disapprove (i.e. riding faster than walking pace or recklessly). I am a very conscientious glider and the last thing I want to do is encourage legislation against Seg's. This is the main reason I am asking for advice, to help ensure that others are properly informed about the HT and to give a positive impression.

Thank you all for the advice, it's quite helpful (keep 'em coming if you have more :))

[fredkap]

Secret of the east - we have pages on this topic. Until Segways become commonplace and even then, most of us don't expect acceptance inside private property without a bonafide handicap sticker. Having insurance may help your case but try to get a store's permission to lock your machine near the entrance of a store and plan on walking your machine into that store. Welcome to SegwayChat!

Fred

[verbl800]

I bring this up often when people complain that they aren't allowed to Seg on private property (malls, etc.) - the issue has nothing to do with people's like or dislike of the Seg.

Rather, as JohnM alluded to, the reason behind entities disallowing the Seg on their property likely has everything to do with their insurance. As part of their liability coverage, it's safe to assume their insurance policies prohibit mobile devices like scooters and Segways from being ridden indoors.

Remember, if you hit someone in the mall, the mall itself would have an absurdly large amount of lability in the case and could be sued for negligence in keeping danger out of the mall.

[dhugger]

quote:Remember, if you hit someone in the mall, the mall itself would have an absurdly large amount of liability in the case and could be sued for negligence in keeping danger out of the mall.


Isn't that ridiculous???? I bump into someone, so the mall is responsible??? Somebody please explain this logic. SELF RESPONSIBILITY, people!!! It's scary how much the people in this country lack this simply quality. Everyone is so greedy and out to make a quick buck.

All us Seggers should just move to DK’s island. I betcha anything we could seg freely there ;)


-Derek Hugger-

[LarryL]

We are in the process of opening our Las Vegas Rental Center at the Fashion Show Mall. We will be outside on the plaza and we won't be able to ride them in the mall either.

The answer is because of insurance. If you do have an accident the mall could be sued for allowing you in. Therefore they will not take that chance. As the owner of several businesses, I can see this as an issure. Sure, I would love to ride int he mall. Fashion Show Mall is HUGE and has nice smooth tile floors. It is a wonderful place to ride. I've done it before hours when they let me go to the mall office at the other end of the mall and it was fantastic. But rules are rules and it is their neck on the line so we obey them.

The worst thing any of us can do is to cause problems and try to demand that we be allowed to ride. That will create more problems than you could imagine. We are allowed in some of the casions and others don't want us in. Therefore we have taken the stance that we won't go in any of them rather than creat more problems.


Larry

[MagiMike]

secretoftheeast,
For what its worth here are the talking points I used with the manager of my local mall in an unsuccessful request.
- The Segway HT was designed from the ground-up to be pedestrian friendly and compatable with riding indoors.
- Tires are a special compound and will not damage or mark floors.
-Black key sets the maximum speed to walking pace.
- I will ride in a responsible deliberate manner. I am an adult and not reckless.
- We are still in an introductory period when people (read mall managers) are getting used to Segways in pedestrian environment, I would welcome a trial period of use in which I could demonstrate the lack of impact this will have on your mall and customers.
-Small footprint of the Segway takes up no more floor space than I do when standing there.
- While I am not handicapped my self, increasing numbers of Seqways makes it inevitable you will see disabled segway users in the future and now is the time to develope a policy which will not get you sued under the American's with Disabilities Act.
- Segway merchants are starting to open Segway stores in malls now.
-I would be happyto give you and your security people a personal demonstration to help you make an informed decision on this subject.

Best of luck with your mall manager.

Mike in Houston TX.
It is better to know some of the questions than all of the answers. - James Thurber

[verbl800]

MagiMike -

You are missing the point. No-one cares about the Segway per se...you could request to come into the mall with your magic flying carpet and the answer would still be no.

Regardless of the actual merits of the Seg, the liability the mall owner maintains far exceeds any benefit they would have by allowing Segs in. Telling them how cool the device is and how the tires won't scuff floors is completely irrelevant.

[wayne]

Think of it like if you owned the Mall or Store.
Would you like someone riding around in your store with a chance of them running over something or someone.
The Segway in a motorized scooter whatever way you look at it.
I know a lot of Seg owners think they should have to right to ride them anywhere they like (and I would too) but that is just not going to happen.


Wayne

[segwayowner]

secret of the east- would you be willing to power assist once in the mall? if yes, its a totally different issue, i assume people can walk their bikes through the malll and why cant you.....

DES: Segway owner....
it has a nice ring to it

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by segwayowner

secret of the east- would you be willing to power assist once in the mall? if yes, its a totally different issue, i assume people can walk their bikes through the malll and why cant you.....


I assume that because there are bike racks outside the mall, that's where I'm supposed to park. Can't say I've ever seen a bike being walked thru a mall. Have you?

[segwayowner]

yes, i have seen bikes walked through malls.

DES: Segway owner....
it has a nice ring to it

[mzokc]

If the lack of a secure parking place is the problem, why not walk the HT to the security office or mall help desk and lock it up there. They might let you ride it, but if not, then they should be motivated to help by providing a safe place to lock it.

(I am assuming you glided to the mall, otherwise you could leave it in the car!)

If a mall forced me to lock it where it could be stolen, I would say this: "A stolen Segway will make the local news, I wouldn't want your mall to be considered unsafe by the media."

Mark

[Race3]

I have used my segway in two malls in Boston and the major mall in providence without any problems. I think it should be perfectly accepted. However, if the management will not allow it, then of course you must comply. Hopefully they will at least let you walk it in the mall... it is no different than pushing a stroller, imo. Make sure you talk to a supervisor and not just the regular security personelle. I know some people disagree with me on this issue and I don't intend to engage in a debate... as we've done that plenty in the archives. In general though, the Segway is clearly designed for indoor use and the mall is one of the safest indoor places I can think of. The walkways are much larger than sidewalks and if used properly, you should not cause any problems. I encourage people to use their segways in the mall so that others will see this as a safe, indoor friendly device. Parking them outside does not give this impression. Anyhow, bottom line... try riding in the mall, if you are stopped, then talk with management and at least ask to walk it. Also, check the laws in your state... if the segway is looked upon as a 'pedestrian' often that can be helpful in your arguement. However, if they say no, you are out of luck, as it usually is private property.