Hermosa Beach, CA bans Segways

[OnDBeach]

#65279;I live in Hermosa Beach, California. Before purchasing my Segway, I reviewed California State law on Segways an inquired of the Hermosa Beach Police whether Segways were legal. I was told they were legal on the sidewalks, but not on the streets. Hermosa Beach has passed no law restricting the use of Segways. After I purchased the Segway, the police reluctantly changed their mind. I have been threaten that I will be ticketed if I ride it on the sidewalks where "wheeled vehicle[s] or device[s], propelled by human or motorized power’ are prohibited. And because it is also a pedestrian as defined by California Vehicle Code Section 467, I cannot ride it on the streets. In short, I cannot ride it in Hermosa Beach.

I took it to the City Council where I learned that the City Attorney has given them the opinion that Hermosa Beach Ordinances that have been on the books before the invention of the Segway cover Segways since they are defined by California Vehicle Code Section 313 as “electric personal assistive mobility devices.” The Hermosa Beach Municipal Code referres to “devices” and thus covers Segways. Based upon my arguments they have put on the agenda for their January meeting amending the Municipal Code to specifically prohibit Segways. I want the council to allow Segways. Those in favor of specifically outlawing Segways have been offered a chance to try one. They have refused. “I have read about them. We do not need any more wheeled vehicles in the Plaza or the Strand [the walk way on the beach]. Those against amending the law to outlaw Segways say “if the City Attorney says the law already outlaws them, then why do we need a change.” Thus, we are faced with a lose-lose choice. There will be either a law that is being wrongly interpreted to prohibit Segways, or one that specifically prohibits them. The only Council member who has tried one, is in favor of permitting them as intended by the California Legislature.

Are you able to help convince the City Council to give Segways a chance?

[dexter]

>>"wheeled vehicle[s] or device[s], propelled by human or motorized power’

Are baby strollers prohibited? Carts for bringing groceries home? Luggage with wheels? Not all of these examples are wheeled vehicles, but they are all wheeled devices.

What about a pinwheel? Definitely not a vehicle, but certainly a "wheeled device" that can be propelled by human or electric power. Are pinwheels prohibited?

If "vehicle" was considered too restrictive a term when the law was originally written, then "vehicle or device" seems certainly far too inclusive. Possibly a reason to challenge the existing law. Athough then of course there is still a possiblility of a separate law prohibiting the Segway.

Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
work: www.idealjacobs.com
play: www.nyline.org

[Sal]

Although satirical, Dexter makes a wonderful point... Laws are broad and open to interpretation, and I worry about who is interpreting them!

And, why the hell is it that those who want to ban segways always refuse to try one?

I think OnD Beach is going about it the correct way, even though my gut would be screaming outrage at the top of my lungs. On what grounds are those anti-Segway folks going to prohibit Segways?

I don't know much about the law.. .BUT wouldn't CALI State vehicle code (which classifies the Segway as a pedestrian) overrule any town codes?

ugh! I hate narrow people!

-SAL

Think Different
www.apple.com

Answers that Matter
www.lilly.com

[dexter]

>>And because it is also a pedestrian as defined by California Vehicle Code Section 467, I cannot ride it on the streets.

While they certainly can make laws disallowing the Segway on the sidewalk and disallowing it on the street, it seems a stretch to define the Segway one way to fit one law and define it a different way to fit a another law. If it is a pedestrian, it is not a vehicle; if it is a wheeled device, it is not a pedestrian. Unless they rewrite one of the laws to define it similarly in both laws I'd think they'd have to choose one or the other. I would think the laws would at least have to be consistant with one another. Then again maybe government doesn't quite work that way.



Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
work: www.idealjacobs.com
play: www.nyline.org

[dexter]

>>And, why the hell is it that those who want to ban segways always refuse to try one?

Heaven forbid that their opinions be swayed by actual information. It is more important to be "right" by unwavering decision and speaking louder than anyone else than to be "right" by virtue of having all the facts, if that might possibly mean a change in stance.

Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
work: www.idealjacobs.com
play: www.nyline.org

[BruceWright]

Actually, since under California law, municipalities can ban Segways, it's possible that all they need to do to ban it is to argue that their existing ordinance covers it. They have that right, within their city limits. I'm not a lawyer, but it's very likely that all wheeled devices includes the Segway.

You need to look at your city ordinances, though. Is there a city ordinance that disallows pedestrians from walking in the street?


I think a good fallback position would be to petition to get them legal to use wherever bicycles are allowed. Can you get them to let you do that?

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[driley]

OnDBeach,
Do you know specifically when the City Council meeting is in January? There is usually a public comment session and it would be a shame if nobody spoke to the benefits of allowing Segways.

If I am available, I will attend the meeting to speak during any public comment period. If I am not available I will write the council members directly before the meeting.

Devin

[JohnM]

FYI

CITY OF HERMOSA BEACH
MUNICIPAL CODE ON-LINE
VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
TRAFFIC RULES
http://www.hermosabch.org/departments/cityclerk/code/traffic.html
http://www.hermosabch.org/departments/cityclerk/code/1012.html#020

I'm forever amazed at how reluctant you folks are to actually look at the laws.

[fredkap]

John,

Thanks for doing our homework! Quite frankly, the area where they have banned all wheeled conveyances are understandable especially on the weekends. This isn't the fight to fight. I won't want to fight to ride a Segway in Times Square im NYC on New Year's eve either. Note the law allows an exception for the disabled. Street useage where bicycles are allowed should be permissable. Sidewalks away from the crowd. For those that don't know the area there is a main walkway along the beach which is extremely crowded and a separate bikeway/roller blade way which is extremely dangerous. There are plenty of spots off of the beach that are fine for Segging.

Just my opinion, it is not that we aren't safe, we just won't be perceived as being safe.

Fred