Congress has Approved a 300k 6-Horse Mounted Unit

[Blinky]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=7&u=/031001/180/5g0i4.html

Does spending $325k on three horses for one year sound better than spending $15k on three segways?

At least not everyone in DC feels this was a good idea.

quote:Kingston explained that he is more concerned with the department's expansion than the mounted unit itself. But, he added, at about $100,000 a horse, "the price tag is very aggressive."

"You could buy a lot of segways" for that price, Kingston said, "and you don't have to feed them."




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[wayne]

This has nothing to do with a Segway, lets move it.

[Blinky]

quote:Originally posted by wayne

This has nothing to do with a Segway, lets move it.

Good morning wayne,

Actually, I think this article has everything to do with the segway. A long time ago, before you registered an account here Wayne, Segway Chat members discussed a similar topic before.

http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=335

I am not sure if you read the article or this previous thread about replacing horses with Segways. All respect to Chicago, who probably saved $600k just on using segways as a replacement for horses just a year ago.

I had no idea it was that costly ($100k) to maintain a horse.



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[wayne]

From what I read this was about DC and Horses. The name Segway was mentioned only once and that was just cost related. So like I said this is not about a Seg, it's about a Horse.
Just because some think the Seg will replace the car it's not even replacing the horse.


Wayne

[pam]

So a Segway could replace a horse, quite easily, I would think. The only "advantage" one might lose would be the ability to be above the crowd so much higher as well as the intimidation factor. You'd have to get off of both of them to do any hand-to-hand stuff. In the long run, a Segway would be a lot less expensive than a horse. BUT, you wouldn't have the parade pretties with a Segway that you have with a horse.
Pam

[wayne]

Since this was NOT a Segway related topic (DC and Horses) we have made it Seg related.
But I would like to disagree(in a friendly way) that the Seg can't replace a horse when being used in law enforcement.
Lets see a Seg chase someone, up and down hills, across small creeks and etc. You would have a hard time running down a 3 year old on a Seg. The Seg may replace the merry-go-round but thats about it.
The horse does not run out of fuel in 15 miles.
The Horse can carry more.
The Horse can go on the streets, sidewalks and etc. without the law looking down your neck.
A horse can be trained to do things for you that a Seg can't.

Wishful thinking on the future of the Seg is not going to make it happen. But wishing is fun.


Wayne

[q]

quote:Originally posted by pam



__snip__

BUT, you wouldn't have the parade pretties with a Segway that you have with a horse.
Pam



//

...as long as one watches
one's step.

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_sunday_3h.jpg
(plz click image to enlarge.)

//

[powderhound]

Denver just eliminated its mounted horse patrols in downtown in order to address city budget shortfalls. It looks to me like the Segway is a much lower cost way to have some of the capabilities of a mounted patrol without the cost! I'm not comparing a police horse to a segway on a feature by feature comparison but it you have no horse patrol at all, maybe a segway fits!

Here's another article about this issue -
Mounted patrols at risk as cities cut expenses

http://us.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/09/05/horse.patrols.ap/

[fireballfive]

I'v been stepped on by a lot of horses and thrown off by a few. I'd rather get that treatment from a Segway, anyday. Also, a lot less emmissions from a Seg.
Fireball Five

[ElectraGlide]

The horses may cost a lot , but they sure are more effective when you use them for crowd control . An animal that size can be VERY intimidating and get a group of people to scatter, or move on, very quickly. $300K?? No big deal...the government is paying for that , not us ! ; )

Steve

[fireballfive]

I don't mean to clutter here, but I was just thinking of how much "Stealthier" {is that a word?} a Segway is than a horse or even an officer running on foot.
You don't have to feed it [much] and it will stay where you put it.

Fireball Five

Sometimes You Have To Grab The Horse By The Tail And Face The Situation.

[q]

(from the article)

...

"The House has a philosophical concern that we don't want the Capitol campus to become a police state," said Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.), chairman of the appropriations subcommittee on the legislative branch, in an interview. "We still want this place to be tourist friendly in the eyes of a 12-year-old girl."

Kingston explained that he is more concerned with the department's expansion than the mounted unit itself. But, he added, at about $100,000 a horse, "the price tag is very aggressive."

"You could buy a lot of segways" for that price, Kingston said, "and you don't have to feed them."

Nevertheless, Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-Colo.), who once a mounted patrol officer himself, led the charge to fund the mounted unit and the objecting body gave way in conference.

"Mounted horse patrol offers officers maneuverability among crowds," Campbell said through a spokeswoman. "Also mounted horse patrol has been known to have a calming influence on the public that the police serve."

...


//

i didn't know sen. ben nighthorse
campbell pulled the strings. (and
i just saw him at the denver flea
market a couple months ago.)

if i see him again, and my seg is
nearby, he'll get offered a demo.
(small world.)

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_0831003_sunday_3d.jpg
(plz click the image to enlarge.)

//

[Blinky]

Those are definately examples of how they are more useful, but lets look at some of the benefits of using segways and horses, and negatives of using horses

quote:Originally posted by wayne

The horse does not run out of fuel in 15 miles.
Segways need to charge, their current preformance in distance may be an issue, but these officers who ride them could easily change the batteries with fresh ones if available. I really don't see a major downside here.
quote:The Horse can carry more.
yes, true.
quote:The Horse can go on the streets, sidewalks and etc. without the law looking down your neck.
I am sure if 'you' went down a sidewalk on a horse you would be stopped. I don't think the same uniformed state or city workers would have a problem on a Segway. Why do you think they would have a problem with the law if they already work enforcing the law?
quote:A horse can be trained to do things for you that a Seg can't.
lol, if you can't teach a human to ride the segway where he/she want to go then I think they might have a bit of a problem.

Here are some reasonable thoughts, [}:)]

- Replacing horses with segways will save city/state money

- Horses defecate (very stinky) not having to clean up will save on sanitation costs or resources

- horses themselves smell as well, especially on those rainy days (not to say a segway rider who does not shower wouldn't) ;)

- horses are no longer exposed to the city/street air (pollution) {still remains a factor for rider/glider}

- horse dies out, I don't see a horse rider dragging the body back on power assist mode.

- and speaking of death, you can't make glue out of a segway

- wheel goes out on segway you replace it in an est. 20mins, horse shoe goes out the animal is out of commision for a much longer time

- when was the last time you seen a horse chase down a car or anything for that matter? I certainly have not seen one here in NY, ever!

- rider can jump off segway quicker than horse, and it may actually be safer for them to do so as well.

- may actually be cheaper to maintain a Segway, especially if one if on lease if it breaks down for any reason. I can't imagine a vet bill for a horse is any less.

- one downside, if the Segway rider passes gas, he can't blame it on his Segway HT :(

- officers can't rider their horses into a store as easily as they could with a Segway.


I can do this all day, there is certainly a case to be made for replacing horses for segways.



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[wayne]

I can picture it now. Policeman chases a mugger, pulls up beside him on his HT, jumps off HT and captures the mugger.
Meantime HT crashes with repairs of $600.00 or more.

[Blinky]

quote:Originally posted by wayne

I can picture it now. Policeman chases a mugger, pulls up beside him on his HT, jumps off HT and captures the mugger.
Meantime HT crashes with repairs of $600.00 or more.

Wayne, you own a segway ht don't you?

I thought the Segway, when no user is detected on it, rolls about three feet and turns it self off.

Question, when you get off your segway while it is in balance mode, do you go through $600 worth of damage repair every time?

most likely not :) lol


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[stuart]

quote:Originally posted by wayne

I can picture it now. Policeman chases a mugger, pulls up beside him on his HT, jumps off HT and captures the mugger.
Meantime HT crashes with repairs of $600.00 or more.


Wayne,

The E series (the most likely to be used by law enforcement) has a self balancing mode. I'm not sure what would happen if you jumped off the E at full tilt but I'd imagine it'd be a lot less likely to be damaged than the I or P series.

Also, don't you think you're taking the "devils advocate" thing a little far on this Wayne??

Stuart

[wayne]

"Devils advocate" well, maby just a little.

The Seg will be good for Police where all they do is ride around and do "PR" work. For the more serious patrols the horse will be better.

There are a few on here that seem to think the Seg is going to replace the car, horse, walking and etc. I see the Seg as tool for someone to use around warehouses and for some to use to get to work or do some shopping where they don't own a car. For the most part I see 85% of its use as pleasure. Going to the store to pick up a carton of cokes is probably more pleasure for the owner than anything.

As for the Seg turning itself off after you dismount and not doing any damage, you can try it but my control shaft cost a little more than I want to spend.


Wayne

[JohnHHarrington]

>>> $300K?? No big deal...the government is paying for that, not us !

What a RIDICULOUS comment! This is exactly the type of thinking that puts our government in debt. Even more offensive is the concept that government employees, all of whom have the responsibility of being good stewards of OUR (we the taxpayers) money, will apply the "use it or loose it" mentality right before the end of the fiscal year.




Happy gliding -- John

[powderhound]

I don't think the segway replaces the effectiveness of a horse mounted police. However, in this time of budget cuts, many cities are getting rid of them to save money! In that world is the Segway a logical and cheaper alternative - I say yes!

[SegwayLongIsland]

IMHO:

Look at how many people visit this web site everyday who can't afford a Segway? Why, because it's simply beyond the constraints of their budget. They've got to work harder and save up or sacrifice something else to afford one.

Unfortunately, our government doesn't have those constraints.
87 BILLION for Iraq and we're not even asking them to pay for the reconstruction with their oil! Shame on us!

One of these days the american public will hit the wall with taxes and government waste (take a look at your cell phone bill) and simply say "enough is enough". (Remember what started this country way back when...over-taxation by England!!)

If someone's job was on the line for spending $300K for 6 horses, they wouldn't even be buying Segways, they'd be buying bicycles!

Wayne