How Can I Afford a Segway

[Poindexter]

I need to demonstrate that the cost of the Segway would be covered in the first year’s savings.

Assuming that I would sell my truck and use my Segway for my primary commuting transportation I calculate the following:

Costs:
Segway---------$4,500
Insurance----------[u]100</u>
Total-----------$4,600


Savings:
Truck Sale----------------$1,000
Insurance------------------1,000
License/Registration Fees------60
Truck Repair-----------------300
Gas------------------------[u]1,100</u>
Sub Total-----------------$3,460

Riding Lawnmower----------[u]1,500</u>
Total---------------------$4,960


The riding lawn mower expense may not seem applicable and is dependant on retrofitting my push mower to be towed by my Segway but I’m sure I could make it work. Plus it’s the only thing that will put me over the top.

What do you think? Am I missing anything?



"Anyone who wants to be a New Urbanist has never been Old Urbanist." Michael Poindexter (critic)

[BruceWright]

The lawnmower thing is clever.

Not knowing what your business is, I can't really say. But depending on your field, the Segway could be useful business tool.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[pt]

you put gas in the truck right? that counts...i also noticed when i gave up my car, i spent less on car meals..coffee, fast food type stuff, etc...

cheers,
pt

[Lohja]

You could add another item under your savings:

Gliding on a HT = Priceless.

You shouldn't expect to pay for it in one year. Try two and three years.

[Poindexter]

quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

The lawnmower thing is clever.

Thanks. Of course that hitch is going to be important.

quote:Not knowing what your business is, I can't really say. But depending on your field, the Segway could be useful business tool.

Architect, so not really. I do figure I could hire myself out as security for mall parking lots during the Christmas season. It would be a good PR for the mall and cash for me.

I had a mall bite at doing the same thing with me on in-line skates.

There was also someone posting a request to rent a Segway where I am in Nashville for trade shows. All that sideline cash is uncountable but there would be some.

[albaby]

quote:What do you think? Am I missing anything?
Well, regardless of whether you're missing something, I think you need to pay attention to whether you're going to be able to completely replace your truck with the Seg. 'Cause I think your gas savings suggests more use than the Seg is capable of.

You estimated that your gasoline cost savings would be $1,100. Conservatively estimating that you're paying $1.65 per gallon and that you're getting about 15 mpg out of your truck, that means you're driving about 10,000 miles per year.

Today's HT probably can't give you 10,000 miles of travel per year. The range of the machine on a single charge doesn't really get you there. Heavy users might push upwards of 3K miles, but where folks have estimated their annual usage it's trended more towards 1.5-2K.

That means that you're either contemplating dramatically reducing your usual travel patterns, you might need to replace those extra miles with some alternative transportation, or (most likely) you're overestimating the gas savings from selling your truck. You're part of a two-car household, right? You'll probably be putting some of those miles on the second car.

Albaby

[mrleisure]

Albaby's logic is very sound based on my experience.

And you also haven't considered the cost of replacement batteries, which are going to add say, $500+ a year to the total cost of owning a Seg. There are also mitigating factors that are difficult to assign a dollar value- think rainy days, limited cargo space, solo travel, etc, etc.

Justify the machine for the unlimited fun you'll have and the dozens of new friends you'll make and it's worth *many* times the value of your truck.

"I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell"

[SegwayUtah]

The machine should last you a few years without any maintenance, so I'd look at the cost of insurance over 2-3 years, etc. Also, I'd add in the cost of renting a car from time to time when it's absolutely necessary (maybe a few $100 during the year).

Chris

[pt]

quote:Originally posted by mrleisure And you also haven't considered the cost of replacement batteries, which are going to add say, $500+ a year to the total cost of owning a Seg.

my batteries are going to be 1 year old in a month or so, they don't need to be replaced and my range is as good as when i got them.

cheers,
pt

[Poindexter]

I buy on average $20 a week in gas (times 52 = $1,040). That's for a Ford F150 pick up truck that I use for commuting 14 miles round trip to work and errands on the weekends. I drive fast so maybe I don't get 15mpg. Oh, and there is the cost of speeding tickets - $200 last year.

We do have two cars in my family and my wife works at home. So on rainy days she can drop me off and pick me up with just a small addition to her school drop off route. We would probably buy a mini van to replace the cargo hauling capabilities of my truck. I rarely haul anything.

Things that don't figure into my decision:
Fun - I have enough
Friends - I have enough.
Save the Planet - I don't believe in global warming.

I hate public transportation. I don't really like cars that much.

I love individual transportation that gets me to the suburbs.



"Anyone who wants to be a New Urbanist has never been Old Urbanist." Michael Poindexter (critic)

[edh]

7 Miles one way? I guess if you have no choice you'll always take the seg.

I have a 3 mile commute, and I prefer the car unless the weather is nice. I can't imagine a 7 mile seg ride in rain, or the middle of winter. I'd miss my car very quickly if I had to do either.

[albaby]

Poindexter, if you're spending $20 per week for gas, you're putting a fair amount of miles on your truck, no matter how bad your mileage. Probably close to the 10-12K that the average person will annually put on their car/truck. That exceeds the amount of transportation you could reasonably expect to shift to the Segway. If you're really spending that much on gas, you're putting a lot of miles in for errands, weekend driving, and trips during/after work.

So I offer this one piece of general advice:

Anyone thinking about replacing their existing car/truck with a Segway should have a very good grasp on how they currently use their current vehicle.

I might suggest that you take a few weeks and keep a log of your truck usage. Nothing fancy - just note the time and mileage for each trip, whether it ends at work/home (or some other destination), and if you have more cargo than can be fit inside a large backpack. At the end of that few weeks, note:

1) Any single trip of more than 15 miles;
2) Any combination of trips exceeding 15 miles in a six-hour period;
3) Any combination of trips exceeding 15 miles in any period where you wouldn't able to charge;
4) Any trip where you are carrying cargo that won't fit in a backpack; or
5) Any roundtrip where you travel 8 or more miles in less than 15 minutes travel time.

That last one is a bit dubious, but will mainly be trips on weekends or where there's no traffic. It's only because you mentioned that you drive fast. The Segway is much more leisurely than a car, and for those trips you'll be adding an extra half hour of travel time. Since you drive fast, you may find it irritating to spend 45 minutes on a Seg where a car would get you there in 15 minutes or less.

As a quick check, though, figure out how many miles you've put on your truck over the past few years. The Seg is a potential replacement for an underutilized vehicle, but it's not a replacement for a fully-utilized (ie. 10K+ miles driven per year) vehicle. Unless your truck or your second car is underutilized, the Seg may not be a viable option for replacement.

Albaby

[ElectraGlide]

quote:Originally posted by pt

i also noticed when i gave up my car, i spent less on car meals..coffee, fast food type stuff, etc...

cheers,
pt

HELP !!!! I have the opposite problem!.....I'm always looking for a good reason to take my Segway out for a spin, and I end up at Starbucks, Dunkin Dohnuts, Baja Burrito, and similar places more often than before owning the Segway. It's a good thing I keep up my daily bike ride to wear off those added calories !! : )
As far as giving up a car or truck that might be your "primary" vehicle, I think it wouldn't be a very good idea unless all your travels are within 12 miles ( round trip ) and free of inclement weather. Getting rid of a second vehicle should be ok.

Steve

[Poindexter]

quote:Originally posted by albaby

you'll be adding an extra half hour of travel time. Since you drive fast, you may find it irritating to spend 45 minutes on a Seg where a car would get you there in 15 minutes or less.



What if I were giving up my truck to take public transportation (why anyone would do this is beyond my understanding for the sake of comparison let's make that assumption).

I estimate that it would take me more than an hour to take the bus 7 miles to work in my town. That is a conservative estimate and would most likely be more.

Added to that is the incovienience of public transportation. Having to be a slave to a schedule, walking miles to and from the stop in all kinds of weather and mixing with people I may not want to mix with (both on the bus and to and from the bus stop.)

My conclusion is that a Segway is a more logical replacement for a commuting vehicle than is public transportation.

[4Seg]

quote:Originally posted by Lohja

You could add another item under your savings:

Gliding on a HT = Priceless.

You shouldn't expect to pay for it in one year. Try two and three years.

Lohja, EXACTLY!!! You stole the keys under my fingers!!!


be keen, keep clean, glide green.
Help support FIRST http://www.usfirst.org

[4Seg]

Poindexter,
May I suggest getting a signature loan from your local bank. At 7.75% interest, you can have it paid off in two years @ $208 a month. Pick up some "Seg Gigs" and you can easily break even.

Just a suggestion. [:}]


quote:Originally posted by Poindexter

I need to demonstrate that the cost of the Segway would be covered in the first year’s savings.

Assuming that I would sell my truck and use my Segway for my primary commuting transportation I calculate the following:

Costs:
Segway---------$4,500
Insurance----------[u]100</u>
Total-----------$4,600


Savings:
Truck Sale----------------$1,000
Insurance------------------1,000
License/Registration Fees------60
Truck Repair-----------------300
Gas------------------------[u]1,100</u>
Sub Total-----------------$3,460

Riding Lawnmower----------[u]1,500</u>
Total---------------------$4,960


The riding lawn mower expense may not seem applicable and is dependant on retrofitting my push mower to be towed by my Segway but I’m sure I could make it work. Plus it’s the only thing that will put me over the top.

What do you think? Am I missing anything?



"Anyone who wants to be a New Urbanist has never been Old Urbanist." Michael Poindexter (critic)


be keen, keep clean, glide green.
Help support FIRST http://www.usfirst.org

[nocanfly]

So how exactly are you going to shlep 2x4's once you sell the truck?

[q]

quote:Originally posted by 4Segway

Poindexter,
May I suggest getting a signature loan from your local bank. At 7.75% interest, you can have it paid off in two years @ $208 a month. Pick up some "Seg Gigs" and you can easily break even.

Just a suggestion. [:}]


quote:Originally posted by Poindexter

I need to demonstrate that the cost of the Segway would be covered in the first year’s savings.

Assuming that I would sell my truck and use my Segway for my primary commuting transportation I calculate the following:

Costs:
Segway---------$4,500
Insurance----------[u]100</u>
Total-----------$4,600


Savings:
Truck Sale----------------$1,000
Insurance------------------1,000
License/Registration Fees------60
Truck Repair-----------------300
Gas------------------------[u]1,100</u>
Sub Total-----------------$3,460

Riding Lawnmower----------[u]1,500</u>
Total---------------------$4,960


The riding lawn mower expense may not seem applicable and is dependant on retrofitting my push mower to be towed by my Segway but I’m sure I could make it work. Plus it’s the only thing that will put me over the top.

What do you think? Am I missing anything?



"Anyone who wants to be a New Urbanist has never been Old Urbanist." Michael Poindexter (critic)


be keen, keep clean, glide green.
Help support FIRST http://www.usfirst.org


//

sales tax and a krpto-lok
may make it about even.
do-able, yes?

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_3a.jpg
(plz click image to enlarge.)

//

[albaby]

quote:Added to that [time expenditure] is the incovienience of public transportation. Having to be a slave to a schedule, walking miles to and from the stop in all kinds of weather and mixing with people I may not want to mix with (both on the bus and to and from the bus stop.)

My conclusion is that a Segway is a more logical replacement for a commuting vehicle than is public transportation.

Perhaps - my observation about timing probably wasn't directly related to your "Can I afford the Segway?" question. So let's return to that, because it's a tough question for you.

Anyone can use the Segway to supplement their existing vehicle. That seems to be what most SC posters have done.

If you have a significantly under-utilized vehcile, you might be able to replace it with a Segway alone. For example, if you're currently only putting 2-3K miles on a car, with some planning you might be able to shift that travel entirely to a Segway.

However, if you have a conventionally used car or truck (between 10-15K miles per year), you cannot replace that usage with just the Segway; instead, you'd have to replace it with a mix of the Segway and other transportation alternatives. Those alternatives include putting more miles on the other family car, taxi or car services, and even using public transportation. They may be less expensive than using your truck, but they are not free, and should be accounted for in your costs.

Your estimated gasoline expenses strongly suggest that you use your truck for more than 10K miles per year. So your fiscal analysis ought not to assume that all your transportation needs will be met by the Segway alone.

On the other hand, you probably can't do a really good analysis of relative expenses over a single year. While the Seg might cost more up front than keeping your existing truck, the ongoing operating expenses are significantly less. Regardless of whether you break even in Year 1, you're going to save buckets of money in Year 2. You've estimated your annual truck operating expenses at about $2,500; the annual operating expenses for the Seg will be a couple hundred dollars.

Financing is extremely important for consumer durables and vehicles. Whatever else might encourage Segway adoption, dealer or manufacturer financing at comparable rates to automobile financing would significantly enhance Seg sales. Whether they become available is a different story....

Albaby

[Poindexter]

quote:Originally posted by albaby
Anyone can use the Segway to supplement their existing vehicle. That seems to be what most SC posters have done.

True. We are a two car family. We would still have the one car that will shortly be replaced by a minivan or SUV. That solves the 2x4 hauling problem and the long-trip, bad weather problem.

quote:If you have a significantly under-utilized vehcile, you might be able to replace it with a Segway alone. For example, if you're currently only putting 2-3K miles on a car, with some planning you might be able to shift that travel entirely to a Segway.

True, but under-utilized is relative.

quote:While the Seg might cost more up front than keeping your existing truck, the ongoing operating expenses are significantly less. Regardless of whether you break even in Year 1, you're going to save buckets of money in Year 2. You've estimated your annual truck operating expenses at about $2,500; the annual operating expenses for the Seg will be a couple hundred dollars.

Amen to that! And, even if my calculations are a bit exagerated, the effect of extending those numbers over several years make the value of a Segway even more apparent.

quote:Financing is extremely important for consumer durables and vehicles.

Let me give you another Amen to that brother! How about 12 months same-as-cash? I can go into any furniture store and spend more than $5,000 and get a no interest, same-as-cash loan. In fact, I make all my household major purchases with same-as-cash programs (I've never missed the pay off date on any purchase).

Can't we at least get the 3% financing common to auto loans?

[axiotek]

quote:What if I were giving up my truck to take public transportation (why anyone would do this is beyond my understanding for the sake of comparison let's make that assumption).

Well, maybe the truck is under-utilized as albaby says and the person wants to save money or avoid the inconvenience of looking for parking.

quote:I estimate that it would take me more than an hour to take the bus 7 miles to work in my town. That is a conservative estimate and would most likely be more.

This is terrible and precisely why we need better and more investment in public transportation; reduce trip times, increase ridership.

quote:Added to that is the incovienience of public transportation. Having to be a slave to a schedule, walking miles to and from the stop in all kinds of weather and mixing with people I may not want to mix with (both on the bus and to and from the bus stop.) My conclusion is that a Segway is a more logical replacement for a commuting vehicle than is public transportation.

Public transit may be inconvenient today because it is built that way and we build our "cities" to provide the greatest level of convenience to the automobile. It was not always so and even today does not exist everywhere. Some people like to mingle with their neighbors and fellow city dwellers and experience the energy and spontaneity of human interaction; this is not always completely comfortable, but it is an important part of community and being a social species. The logical replacement for a commuting vehicle is that mode which best fits the circumstances and application.

I hope you get your HT because from everything I read here, you’ll make up your money in the second year without doubt and I think it is great to hear you might become a one car family. IMO, the HT assists in building community by taking people out of the confines of their autos and making them easier to interact with. Let’s hope no one approaches you with questions/curiosity about your HT who you may not want to mix with. :)


www.segwayboston.org

[Poindexter]

Wouldn't it makes sence for Segway, LLC to start some sort of financing program like the major auto manufacturers have done for years?

Seems like it would be a good way to sell more units and create more capital at the same time.



"Anyone who wants to be a New Urbanist has never been Old Urbanist." Michael Poindexter (critic)

[GadgetmanKen]

quote:Assuming that I would sell my truck and use my Segway for my primary commuting transportation

Aw man, don't sell your truck. You never know when you'll need it. They really come in handy. I sold mine and wished I hadn't.

quote:
The riding lawn mower expense may not seem applicable and is dependant on retrofitting my push mower to be towed by my Segway but I’m sure I could make it work.

I think maybe you might include hospital expenses. I don't think I would want a power mower directly behind me while on a Segway. What happens when you hit some wet grass and start slipping. Whoops. CHOP..CHOP... :)

quote:
Plus it’s the only thing that will put me over the top.

What do you mean by that?

quote:
What do you think? Am I missing anything?

Yeah, four things.
(1) What about the winter? You gonna be riding around in the cold and snow? I know, it doesn't get extremely cold and not a lot of snow, unless your in the mountains.
(2) Do you have a lot of hills or mountains in your area? Poor milage on a Segway perhaps.
(3) You forgot a very teeny tiny thing. The annual electricity costs to charge your Segway.
(4) The money? :)

AND, if you got to sell your truck, I think you'll miss your truck too.....
:)



"Wouldn't it be cool, if?...is like Folgers in my cup"