Kickstand Recall?

[Jeff Allen]

I have identified a flaw in the kickstand that came with my Segway. It breaks too easily.

Sending everybody one free duplicate design-flawed kickstand instead of recalling the kickstands and/or replacing them with a better design is not a solution.

And when I say functional, I mean a kickstand that keeps the HT upright while it is parked and will not permanently break if someone stands on the parked Segway.

To the best of my knowledge this problem is on every $4940.00 HT i-167 sold.

Segway's need kickstands. It doesn't make much sense for the designers of the 167 to have included a kickstand and later tell us not to use them because they don't work and wash their hands of the matter.

We paid for kickstands and it is not unreasonable for us to expect them to work for the lifetime of the Segway.

Does anybody agree?

Frank, maybe you will consider setting up a poll of segwaychat members to see if they think they deserve an LLC supplied durable kickstand at no charge.

Onward!
Jeff Allen

[Sid Viscous]

"Segway's need kickstands."

I agtree with everything but that.

[fredkap]

The P's are being built and sold without the infamous kickstand. A recall implies that your safety is at risk. The kickstand was designed to break so that it didn't cause a catastrophic fall if, for example it was deployed while gliding at 12 mph.

Fred

[BruceWright]

I dislike the weak kickstand.

But personally, it hasn't been a problem. I've ridden my Seg thousands of miles, and I use the kickstand everywhere I go. I haven't broken it yet, and I don't expect to. A free replacement is a good solution. Leaning it against the wall if you're nervous about it may be a better solution for you.

The p leans against the wall very nicely!

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[jbauer]

I agree with Jeff on this one. I haven't experienced a broken kickstand yet (with only 1 month under my belt), but I see that it has been an issue for so many.

I'm SURE I'll have a broken kickstand at some point, and while I appreciate the free 1 time replacement, I agree that a better design would be a better long term solution. Maybe a kickstand that's designed to break away and can then be snapped back into place...?

For me, when I go to a public place, I want the Segway to be as unobtrusive as possible. In SF, I've strangely encountered a lot of negativity with the Segway, and I don't want to reinforce that negativity by having to lean it and take space that may not be readily available. There's not always a place to lean it up against!

I'm amazed that the P doesn't have one. C'mon, these guys have amazing design ideas, surely there's a design that will work without breaking the kickstand and having to replace it...

Please don't misunderstand my critisizm as anti-Segway... I can still love the product and the company while critisizing one aspect of it! (Kinda like being pro-American while still not supporting the war.)

- Jon

[gotseg]

I think the solution to this would be a metal kickstand that 'bends' at a joint after a fair ammount of pressure is applied. Accualy, if anyone has a broken kickstand that they no longer need, maybe you can send it to me and Ill create a prototype of what im talking about.

gotseg?

[segwayowner]

i think that while they have the segs in, they should repair all of these "flaws" at once. I dont think there are many, but thats what makes this a "dream machine"

DES: Segway owner

[motleyorc]

Forgive me if this has been answered already, but is Segway doing a one-time replacement of the original kickstand if it breaks? Mine broke a couple of months ago, but I didn't do anything about it yet.

http://www.segwayceleb.com
motleyorc@hotmail.com

[fredkap]

Motleyorc - yes, you get a freebee one time only then if you want a kickstand buy Wayne's at kcaps.com for $57.75.

Fred

[Lohja]

quote:Originally posted by fredkap

Motleyorc - yes, you get a freebee one time only then if you want a kickstand buy Wayne's at kcaps.com.
Fred


Waynes's kickstand works fine. I use it every day--even though I still have the original one (I'm saving it for "good"). Possibly someone could make a kickstand from a bendable spring. One something like the commonly used door-stop. If it's down (or falls down) when you are moving, it will simply bend and drag. With Wayne's, when deployed, it keeps the platform off level so the HT cannot be put into balance mode. It will not be deployed while moving as the spring holds it up out of the way.

[q]

quote:Originally posted by motleyorc

Forgive me if this has been answered already, but is Segway doing a one-time replacement of the original kickstand if it breaks?


//

yes.

//

quote:

Mine broke a couple of months ago, but I didn't do anything about it yet.

http://www.segwayceleb.com
motleyorc@hotmail.com


//

i don't believe it's part of
the overall 3-month warranty,
(so if it broke in month #7,
you could still get 1 free
one). but, i could be wrong,
so you may choose to call at
your earliest convenience, in
case the 3-month warranty
"clock" is "ticking."

luck.

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_sunday_3f.jpg
(plz click image to enlarge.)

//

[Mr_Laurenzano]

I use to race bikes and the kick stand was baned because some kid impailed himself. Did Bush break his? Oh ya that why were at war????

peace is a oneway street, with no crossroads and no deadends

[Stewbonz]

I hear a new kickstand will be offered . A break away design that can pop back in.


JEFF JARVIS
Carmel Valley Ca

[Turtle]

I NEED a kickstand? Oh, man! Am I sweating now or what???????

Here I am, having run up 204.6 miles on my HT in over 13 months of riding, and I broke the stand within six minutes of getting it home. I didn't realize I couldn't live without such a vital component...

Seriously, as long as they have "walls" I can always find somewhere to stand my HT. They probably should never have included the thing in the first place.

Turtle

=========================
Segway owner since 09/02:
Oldest Segway in Maryland
=========================

[Deviant]

I've used my HT for 9 months without breaking my kickstand. When you go that long, chances are, you won't break it. However, I recently parked it outside the Post Office and returned to see it lying down in a different direction. Apparently someone didn't respect my property, and I am now without my stand.

I really miss it. Maybe because I keep the black front bag on, making the machine more top-heavy. I've got to lean it pretty vertical against a wall for it not to slide down - a delicate balance for a machine which is supposed to be the best at that.

[motleyorc]

I called Segway yesterday and left a message regarding my broken kickstand. I've had my Seg since January and when a representative called me back, she never mentioned a "warranty period" for the kickstand.

She said it would be mailed out the next day and that if I ever need another one it would be $39.95.

Good service.

http://www.segwayceleb.com
motleyorc@hotmail.com

[jillmac]

I thought mine had broken. Someone moved my Seg and what actually happened was that they snapped a small piece off the fender, but the kickstand didn't break. When I discovered the actual damage I had already called Segway and a replacement was on it's way. It is stored in my garage for future use.

Since that time, wherever possible, I just prop my Seg against a wall, tree, fence or whatever is handy. I find this a much better idea than using the kickstand. I also keep meaning to get the 'please don't stand on me' type label for the platform.

Jill

Nothing is inexplicable, merely unexplained..... Dr. Who

[Jeff Allen]

The problem I have with leaning my i167 is that I have a bag on front, not a Segway bag but a small backpack, a small collapsible backpack. When I lean it on a wall, the wheels roll out from under it. Sure I can live with it but don't think I'm asking too much for a durable kickstand that can support the weight of the Seg. I don't care if if breaks away if someone stands on it or not. A springy metal kickstand would be fine with me or two poles connected by a stiff spring that could accidently be deployed while riding and it would just make a lot of noise and flip back.

And while I agree that this problem doesn't make the Segway unusable it's just inconvenient as heck. A generally lay my Segway down so it rests on the bag but to strangers it looks like a fallen Segway. I also have to tell people who ask me "What's that thing?" that "it is where my kickstand went before it broke".

This is a $4950, excuse me, $4495 machine with a broken part that Segway is not, as far as I can tell, going to replace except with another part that will surely fail. What gives?

I suspect that Segway does listen, and I have been treated with nothing but outstanding customer service whever I have called them. They have sent me another kickstand at their expense which is great but it's just not a complete solution.

Some of us may prefer not to push the issue but wouldn't it be nice if the issue would just go away. If I break this new kickstand and they want $39.95 for another one that also will break then I'm going to be disappointed because it seems like it would be an easy problem to remedy if they thought it was important to enough of us.

I am not slamming the Segway or Segway LLC at all. I absolutely love my Segway and wouldn't trade it for anything. I too have never wrecked and have only had one emergency shutdown since I received it and that emergency shutdown did not require me to disassemble the control shaft to reboot. I am an extremely satisfied customer.

Maybe the p series does not really need a kickstand, I don't know, I've never seen one in person. But mine doesn't lean against the wall. I really don't think I'm asking too much. It's like I have an automatic transmission car without a parking brake. The I series is heavy and rolls right off the wall. There is no way I can lean mine against the wall with the bag attached. If by some chance I ever did lean it against the wal and it not immediately fall then if somebody touched it then it would roll back and fall possibly breaking something I have in my bag or if I don't have a bag attacked then I might break the grips on the handlebars that obviously were not designed to take a fall. If the handlebars were designed to take a fall then they would be reinforced themselves at the likely ppoint of contact.

But no, the assumption is that the Segway can be parked upright without it leaning on a wall, just like every picture of an i-series without a rider.

Someone, at some time, at Segway LLC thought that a kickstand would be a feature that should be included on the i-series. If Waynes design is better then maybe Segway should purchase some from him directly and use those as replacements. Supplying one of Wayne's kickstands with every new machine would be cheaper than assembling one of the original kickstands then eventually sending everybody another one.

How about that anonymous poll Frank? The way we are all so attentive to our machines I think many people consider the kickstand issue a thorn in their side too but just don't want to get vocal about it. Look, I'm not being naughty here, and I hate comming across as a "gimme gimme" kind of guy because I'm not. I've got 5G's in this thing and I've got to lay it on the ground for lack of a $10 part!

If I bought a motorcycle with a kickstand and it broke I wouldn't tolerate the answer "lean it on the wall" or "lay it on the ground".

If this is not an important feature to others then I can live with it because I will have no choice. But I will never pay 39 bucks for anything that is almost guaranteed to break with normal use. And for years I will be telling people why the front of my bag is always dirty and what that useless little lever is on the front of my platform.

I can't sugarcoat that fact with Ambassadorial skills because the thing is broken and always will be until Segway provides a better device. If Segway LLC has no intention of addressing this issue then [u]please let me know</u> so I can stop waiting for it.

I will say no more. I rest my case.

Onward!
Jeff Allen

[pt]

hey jeff-

what do you think about the kickstands on the segway ht?

:-]

i'm thinking that there going to be something coming, just my guess.

cheers,
pt

[beckpm]

quote:Originally posted by Jeff Allen

The problem I have with leaning my i167 is that I have a bag on front, not a Segway bag but a small backpack, a small collapsible backpack. When I lean it on a wall, the wheels roll out from under it..........
Onward!
Jeff Allen


Jeff - get some big rubber doorstops at a hardware store - use them as wheel chocks - it will stop the roll "dead in it's tracks"
I have not broken my kickstand yet but I only use it at home - when I park it outside, I lean it up against something and chock the wheels.

Peter Beck
Arlington, Virginia

[q]

quote:Originally posted by Turtle

I NEED a kickstand? Oh, man! Am I sweating now or what???????

Here I am, having run up 204.6 miles on my HT in over 13 months of riding, and I broke the stand within six minutes of getting it home. I didn't realize I couldn't live without such a vital component...

__snip__

Turtle

=========================
Segway owner since 09/02:
Oldest Segway in Maryland
=========================


//

yeah, that's probably the only
thing that would hold me back
from getting a "p" series.

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_sunday_3g.jpg
(plz click image to enlarge.)

//

[q]

quote:Originally posted by motleyorc

I called Segway yesterday and left a message regarding my broken kickstand. I've had my Seg since January and when a representative called me back, she never mentioned a "warranty period" for the kickstand.

__snip__

Good service.

http://www.segwayceleb.com
motleyorc@hotmail.com


//

one free, regardless of time
of ownership. cool.

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_sunday_3l.jpg
(plz click image to enlarge.)

//

[terryp]

Someone said they were told that the company is working on a replacement that operates differently - instead of breaking, something pops out. But the upgrader in Seattle told me that they might be doing away with the kickstand altogether.

I like the kickstand the way it is. If you park the machine in such a way as to discourage people from climbing on, it shouldn't get broken.

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[Cruzan Glider]

I don't use my kickstand out of concern that as soon as I start using it I will break it. I have found that I can lean it agaisnt the wall in my livingroom (where I store it when not it use) and as it is on carpeting, it stand against the wall without rolling back. Out in public I use a bungie cord to help hold the Seg agaisnt whatever I am locking it to. The Seg stands there locked and bungied just fine. And my kickstand survives. Once kickstands are recalled or we are offered free upgrades I anticipate my kickstand might just break.

Mike

[8] Bringing the future of transportation to central Ohio

[Mr_Laurenzano]

Recall the kick stand???? NO!!! new law!!!
Kicktail:
Any skateboarder riding a skate board, since there is no area on the board for a notification method, shall "Kicktail" the board and walk within 10 feet of any ped and call out, like skiers do "On your left, or On your right" repectfully. This will help seggers

peace is a oneway street, with no crossroads and no deadends

[GlideMaster]

quote:Originally posted by gotseg

I think the solution to this would be a metal kickstand that 'bends' at a joint after a fair ammount of pressure is applied. Accualy, if anyone has a broken kickstand that they no longer need, maybe you can send it to me and Ill create a prototype of what im talking about.

gotseg?


I suggested last year that a very strong spring could be used as a kickstand. (This was in an old post in more detail last year.) I broke the one at work on the first day last September.

I've made several wooden stands for the people here in Chicago. You can even stand on your glider and it holds you with no problem; I'm 220. It's also small enough to go in your bag with no problem.


<center>http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/avatars/glidemaster.gif</center>

[jbauer]

A strong spring is a great idea... Hm, wonder if Segway LLC has considered that as an alternative to their break-away plastic. The only downside I can think of is the possibility of incorrect use if you apply pressure straight down on it - would be a lot stronger than you might want. Seems that you could design around that possibility...

Someone should try an aftermarket replacement system with a spring... If you could do a direct replacement without any modifications, that would be huge. Anyone? Sleepy??? :-)

- Jon

[Sid Viscous]

If someone will send me a broken kickstand (plastic arm broken) I'll see about making one up.

[Sleepy]

I've thought about designing one. But if Segway is already working on it, we might as well wait a little while.

Sid, I have 2 broken plastic arms. I can send you one if you want to look at it.
I have an original, and an updated version (beefier spring mounting tab)-- both broken. If you make one out of aluminum, you'll probably need a stronger spring to keep it retracted.

-Alex

[Sid Viscous]

Nope already have the design, alls I need is a kickstand with a broken arm, Prefereably one with a little meat left by the pivot point (The more the better)

[Sleepy]

Sid, I can mail it to you if you private me with your address.

-Alex

[Sid Viscous]

Done

[Jameskk]

had my i series since January and no broke kickstand!

[Sid Viscous]

Look people. If it aint broke your lucky. Don't think your better. It WILL break, particularly if you leave it parked where someone can stand on it.

Do NOT use it unless you absolutely have to, like parking it in the middle of a field or something.

[BruceWright]

I am better than everyone here.

I rule. I have the ultimate kickstand self-control!

;)

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[Stewbonz]

It took me a while but my stand broke too. Judy at Segway sent me another but I probably wont install it.
I notice the P series has 2 bolt holes in the platform aready. I think we will be seeing a new kickstand sometime.

JEFF JARVIS
Historic Tours-Thailand

[Jackier]

A Seg cover might keep curious people from stepping on the seg when parked. Wayne sells a couple different styles. I've considered this too. Just don't want to have to carry anything bulky or heavy around.

Jackie Seg-Away

"The people are always more inportant then the task at hand"

[GlideMaster]

Maybe we can get one of the Chi Town Gliders to post a picture of their stands that I made. We used them at Segway Fest.

<center>http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/avatars/glidemaster.gif</center>

[johnberry]

I have identified a flaw in the kickstand that came with my Segway. It breaks too easily.

Sending everybody one free duplicate design-flawed kickstand instead of recalling the kickstands and/or replacing them with a better design is not a solution.

And when I say functional, I mean a kickstand that keeps the HT upright while it is parked and will not permanently break if someone stands on the parked Segway.

To the best of my knowledge this problem is on every $4940.00 HT i-167 sold.

Segway's need kickstands. It doesn't make much sense for the designers of the 167 to have included a kickstand and later tell us not to use them because they don't work and wash their hands of the matter.

We paid for kickstands and it is not unreasonable for us to expect them to work for the lifetime of the Segway.

Does anybody agree?

Frank, maybe you will consider setting up a poll of segwaychat members to see if they think they deserve an LLC supplied durable kickstand at no charge.

Onward!
Jeff Allen
Jeff,
Not seen my Hi-tech engineered solid metal stands??
Always on Ebay
John

[bystander]

Bruce,
Not seen my Hi-tech engineered solid metal stands??
Always on Ebay
JohnDude!

You're replying to posts from three years ago!

Business can't be that desperate!

P.S. there were about half a dozen or more of these messages from our enterprising friend in England a little while ago. I guess the admins/mods didn't care for the spam-like effect.

[Zorba9]

Many of us original early adopters learned years ago to just quit using the kickstand. For awhile INC did replace everyones broken kickstand - once (the price was $75 then). This may have been partially in response to Jeff Allen's lengthy diatribes about the stupidity of INC's management back then. The same type discussions got other SC members banned/moderated from this sight 1 1/2 years later. Unfortunately Jeff Allen died 2 months before the 170's were released. He would have loved the changes made in the 170's, 180's, & XT's. Jeff so loved the new technology that he initially bought 4 167's from Amazon when they first became available. One he rode and the other 3 stayed in their boxes as a hedge against inflation (if INC. crashed he'ld have several one-of-a-kind HT's). Jeff was a single father raising a teenage son, took care of his blind mother, and ran for the Alabama state senate on the Libertarian platform. He was the first SC member I met in person in the early days. Everyone who knew him misses his presence. RIP Jeff!
(JohnBerry he would have loved your kickstand!)

KOG

[BarnyFife]

It has been said before, the kick stand was DESIGNED to break away. And mine is 3 years old and still original.