Hit by a car this morning.

[Detrbear]

I'm okay, I guess, no permanent damage, it turned my control shaft sideways, but didn't even do a shutdown. I was amazed my fender isn't cracked. What happened? I was starting to cross at an intersection lit by a street light... before dawn. The car zoomed up to turn right at the intersection, and didn't notice me until it was almost too late. The fact that I was on a Segway didn't matter. If I'd been a pedestrian or on a bicycle, the same thing would have happened. In Michigan, cars can turn right on red if they come to a complete stop first. Most are only looking to their left to see that no cars are coming, and most never come to the complete stop.

If I am half way through a boulevard, coming up to two lanes with stopped cars, but the far right turn lane is empty, I slow down to make sure somebody isn't zipping up to turn right past where they should be at the cross walk. If I see that the person is on a cell phone, there is even less chance they'll see me, so I stop, and let them pass. Sometimes they see me when they've pulled up, and look shocked that somebody would actually have the audacity to use the cross walk. Yes, I have the right of way, but being dead right is not much consolation.

My confidence is a bit shaken. It's tough going, having to be responsible for the inattentiveness of motorists, be polite to pedestrians and bikes, look like I'm enjoying every moment of my glide, especially when I've just been forced to glide through somebody's sprinker system, and answer yet another question about how much I paid for it.

Sorry for the rant, I'm just dispirited at the moment. I'll bounce back, I always do. I'm buying a horn tonight after work. Any suggestions as far as kind or brand?

Bill

[SegwayUtah]

Bill,

So sorry to hear that you were the victim of a vehicular accident this morning. I speak for many when I say that we are glad you were not seriously injured.

I used to pull out of driveways and parking lots "looking left" before I bought a Segway HT and became a "pedestrian" of sorts. Now, I realize the error of my ways and am grateful that I was never in the "wrong place" at the "wrong time" to say.

Oh, and if you do buy a horn, please only use it to make loud noises when an accident is imminent :) You are, in effect, now a pedestrian with a horn.

Let us know if we can do anything to help out (you know, send food, etc.) :)

Chris

[NLKotter]

Bill,
I'm glad you're ok! This incident is sure to shake you up temporarily.

You said it was before dawn - do you have any lighting on your Segway? You might want to consider adding a headlight as well as some type of blinking red LED device on the back (or on your back) just to increase your visibility, particularly as the daylight hours start to diminish as autumn approaches.

A horn can be useful - but only if the motorist can hear you from inside the vehicle, and only after you see the car AND have time to react by honking. Lighting may act more like an early-warning system to get the motorist to notice you first.

Glad you're safe and also that your Seg wasn't damaged. Take care, and keep segging!

Nancy

[Stewbonz]

Whoa! Thats too close. Glad to hear you are OK!
That's a good reminder to us all to be extra carefull out there.
It's common practice and law in my area to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks but often people don't practice this when it comes to Segway users.
People just are not aware of the regulations regarding EPAMDs.
Heck, I even had to get the local Sheriff up to speed on the law.




JEFF JARVIS
Carmel Valley Ca

[q]

i've had "close calls"
with motorists turning
"right on red."

now, my approach is
to stop _before_
crossing the inter-
section and make
sure the driver sees
me. sometimes i'll
whistle or if that
doesn't work, i'll
go around the back
of the vehicle, if
there's room.

we have to make eye
contact, or i will
not take for granted
that i've been seen.

...sorry to hear about
the accident; and glad
that you can tell about
it.

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_sunday_3b.jpg

//

[Cruzan Glider]

Bill,

Glad to hear you are ok. I myself have found it difficult to cross intersections when cars are turning right on red; as is legal in Ohio. I make eye contact with the driver before crossing any street. But in your situation that wwas obviously not possible.

Mike

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by Detrbear

The car zoomed up to turn right at the intersection, and didn't notice me until it was almost too late. The fact that I was on a Segway didn't matter. If I'd been a pedestrian or on a bicycle, the same thing would have happened.


'Nuff said. I'm glad you're OK.

[Sunday]

Did everyone else notice the pictures taken of the side of the p during segfest? Those wheels were lit up like Christmas trees! I also noticed, that the i has less of this reflective area, even though it is a larger machine.

It would be great if the i wheels and control shaft, were much more reflective. Klein has a paint job for their bikes that looks like regular paint inthe day, and lights up at night when headlights hit it. Maybe something like that would work.


Sunday

Segway-more fun than you can stand!

[fredkap]

A lot of good advice has already been posted. In addition to lighting, a light colored top might help. The nice thing about a Seg is it is easy to stop. Where there is traffic, stopping and looking is far more important than battery conservation.

Be safe!

Fred

[terryp]

I posted this some time back on a list of things to watch out for, but I guess I need to read my own list from time to time. The exact same thing almost happened to me yesterday. I'm sure the driver didn't see any traffic and wasn't going to stop before turning. I'm glad he saw me in time to slam on his brakes.

In addition to the sprinkler problem, don't you just love trash pickup day, when everyone puts their garbage cans in the middle of the sidewalk?!

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[citivolus]

Wow! I'm glad you're ok Detrbear. I'm constantly amazed by the lack of attention and concern demonstrated by so many drivers. It seems to be a lack of enforcement where the thought is "no accidents = no problem". I think all incidents of drivers turning right when the crosswalk light is lit should be reported since it seems to me that when everyone else holds there is a steady flow of right turns, like they had a green arrow. Again, I'm glad you weren't badly hurt.

--
swiftly flying

[beckpm]

Glad you came out ok. Since no has asked so far let me ask if you were wearing a safety helmet? I noticed that in Chicago only about 5% of the people used helmets. Heck, in Chicago I rented a Seg for three days and did not put a helmet on once! Now that I am back home I have been wearing a silver helmet everyday when I go out for a glide. Helmets are not "cool", but either is brain damage. Last year my cousin in Philidelphia had a bad car accident (no pedestrians, bikes, or segs involved) and came out in a wheelchair (hopefully will be able to get an IBOT someday) - but with some brain damage. She has made progress, but some of her brain function may never come back - it still impacts her speech. We all used helmets in training, so why not out with those crazy car drivers?
PLease tell me you were wearing a helmet Detrbear?

Peter Beck
Arlington, Virginia

[GadgetmanKen]

Did the driver stop and check to see if you were o.k.? Were you thrown from your Seg? Did you have a light? What part of the vehicle struck your handlebars. Mirror? Windsheild? Bumper? Did it also strike your wheel? Did you move your hand out of the way just in time? Did it throw you into the side of the vehicle?

Its a good thing it wasn't a truck. Just imagine if your handlebars got tangled up inside of his rear view mirror brackets, etc.

Glad you are OK.

"Wouldn't it be cool, if?...is like Folgers in my cup"

[Private Pile]

quote:...look like I'm enjoying every moment of my glide, especially when I've just been forced to glide through somebody's sprinker system, and answer yet another question about how much I paid for it.

I'm glad you said that. I didn't buy my HT so I could be "on" all the time. Lately, I've been avoiding eye contact with other pedestrians and pretending I don't hear the "wait a minute!" when I glide on by. I love the segway, I love riding it, but I don't like being a salesman for the company and I don't like answering "15 miles to the charge, $5000, 12.5 miles per hour, gyroscopes" every time I go up the street. More power to the people who like to be the center of attention at all times, but that's not me.

Just the way I feel after 6 months of gliding.

[pam]

Detrbear, I'm so glad you're ok. The Segway - well, it can be replaced. But you.... nope.

Private Pile, maybe you should have waited until they were out longer and people already knew these answers. Unfortunately, when you've got the first of anything, you'll always be asked questions about it. It's a part of human nature.

Pam

[Private Pile]

Pam, it is hard to argue with someone from Niceville!

[leonarsa]

I to have been nearly hit by motorists who make a right on red with their gaze locked only on traffic coming from the left. What is frustrating is that if you are to be hit, the motorist will, more than likely, just say something like "he came flying out of nowhere at 12.5 mph right in front of me." It will be interesting to see how police (and courts) deal with this if (and it's not if, it's when) something terrible really does happen. Fortunately the segway community as a whole seems to be the most conscientious and careful group of people traveling on our sidwalks and streets. We have covered many miles without serious incident so far, and I'm sure there are many more to come.

Glide Safely

[mzokc]

Detrbear, It's always a shock to read about an incident like this. Knowing when a driver is waiting or wanting to go is difficult. I have been turning the HT away from the road when I want the driver to continue moving before I cross.

Glad you are OK, and hopefully the bear survived the incident as well. :)

Mark

[GyroGo]

Glad you're ok.

Obviously those big nasty automotive vehicles are not safe and should be banned from public roadways :)

. . SegCenter.com (www.SegCenter.com) . .
StirlingInfo (www.StirlingInfo.com) StirlingChat (www.StirlingChat.com)

[ElectraGlide]

And I thought those drivers turning RIGHT and only looking LEFT were here in Florida !!!

Steve

[powderhound]

glad to see you're ok. I once was at a light with a car to my left and innocently asked while we were waiting for traffic whether he was going straight or turning (through an open window). He grumpily said that if he was turning he would have has turn signal on "stupid". I just said thanks becuase I've seen people turn without a turn signal - better to ask from my point of view. With a right on red, I play defensive since I don't think the bikes, segs, or pedestrians really have the right of way - especially when they're bigger and heavier! Again glad to see you're safe - I'm originally from Birmingham and remember that cars really think they have the right of way in Michigan!

[Jeff Allen]

I'm glad your okay too. Thanks for the warning. I think [eople at night are more tuned into car headlights instead of just anything that might be in the road. Thanks for the heads up.

Onward!
Jeff Allen

[toybuilder]

It's not a fun feeling. I've had a few close calls. One was certainly my fault; but most of the others are drivers who have no notion of pedestrians in their head!

That's quite a lot of force to make you wrench your handlebar sideways! Did you get knocked off your platform?

I'm quite glad that you're physically okay.

As for being overwhelmed -- focus on your safety first -- and worry about the "PR" aspects when the glide is clear and easy!

Wishing you the best,
Joseph

http://www.pasadenasegway.org/

[Neelix]

Glad that you're ok, Detrbear. I wish you and your Segway many more accident free miles.

-------------------------
Fear not, for even though I come from the Forbidden City, I surely do not agree with the rules.
Chris Knight

[GlideMaster]

Glad to hear you're ok Detrbear. Did the driver stop to see if you were OK?

<center>http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/avatars/glidemaster.gif</center>

[patnowak]

Hey Besr glad you're ok. Sorry I haven't got back to you since chi town. Am leaving for Fla soon so meeting will be tough to make but i still think it's a good idea. Try a led strobe light they really see you coming.

senior glider Pat

[opti6600]

quote:Originally posted by patnowak

Am leaving for Fla soon so meeting will be tough to make but i still think it's a good idea.


Welcome to Florida! What's your destination, Pat?

Bill, man oh man, I'm sorry to hear about this! Just be happy you didn't get Office Spaced...we don't need a Jump to Conclusions mat-maker around here anytime soon. I've never had any problems like this during the morning or evening hours, however I've had some nasty US-1 intersection encounters in the afternoon - 2 sets of 4 lanes on 2 sides, 2 sets of 2 lanes on 2 other sides...lots of cars, one tiny Segway and rider, and a big thanks to the engineers for its manueverability!

[bicycledriver]

quote:Originally posted by Detrbear
I was starting to cross at an intersection lit by a street light... before dawn. The car zoomed up to turn right at the intersection, and didn't notice me until it was almost too late. The fact that I was on a Segway didn't matter. If I'd been a pedestrian or on a bicycle, the same thing would have happened. In Michigan, cars can turn right on red if they come to a complete stop first. Most are only looking to their left to see that no cars are coming, and most never come to the complete stop.

I'm very sorry to hear about your collision.

Readers of Segway Chat may recall that I predicted that the first reported car-Segway collision would involve a Segway operator traveling on the left side of the highway right-of way (against traffic) and a motorist turning right. I also wrote that lack of a headlamp on the Segway would increase the likelihood of collisions at junctions because reflectors are inadequate for right-angle conflicts.

My thesis all along has been that operating according vehicular rules, i.e. operating with traffic and using a headlamp at night, would prevent the most likely types of car-Segway collisions. I hope that this incident will serve as a reminder that vehicle-driver traffic negotiation principles can improve safety for Segway operators compared to the unlighted, contra-flow pedestrian-on-wheels paradigm. It is true that many innocent pedestrians suffer collisions such as this one, and that needs to change, but the advantage of operating a vehicle according to vehicular rules, including use of a headlamp, is that one can avoid most of these situations.

Steven Goodridge
http://humantransport.org/bicycledriving/

[Brooster]

LadyBroo and I are sure glad to hear you're okay Bill.

Brooster

[axiotek]

quote:Originally posted by bicycledriver

quote:Originally posted by Detrbear
I was starting to cross at an intersection lit by a street light... before dawn. The car zoomed up to turn right at the intersection, and didn't notice me until it was almost too late. The fact that I was on a Segway didn't matter. If I'd been a pedestrian or on a bicycle, the same thing would have happened. In Michigan, cars can turn right on red if they come to a complete stop first. Most are only looking to their left to see that no cars are coming, and most never come to the complete stop.

I'm very sorry to hear about your collision.

Readers of Segway Chat may recall that I predicted that the first reported car-Segway collision would involve a Segway operator traveling on the left side of the highway right-of way (against traffic) and a motorist turning right. I also wrote that lack of a headlamp on the Segway would increase the likelihood of collisions at junctions because reflectors are inadequate for right-angle conflicts.

My thesis all along has been that operating according vehicular rules, i.e. operating with traffic and using a headlamp at night, would prevent the most likely types of car-Segway collisions. I hope that this incident will serve as a reminder that vehicle-driver traffic negotiation principles can improve safety for Segway operators compared to the unlighted, contra-flow pedestrian-on-wheels paradigm. It is true that many innocent pedestrians suffer collisions such as this one, and that needs to change, but the advantage of operating a vehicle according to vehicular rules, including use of a headlamp, is that one can avoid most of these situations.

Steven Goodridge
http://humantransport.org/bicycledriving/



So were you right Steve? Is this what happen? I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding the accident. Bill was in the crosswalk correct?, and this is not contra-flow (or is it?). Aside from the illumination/reflection issue, did Bill's position on the street contribute to lack of safety?

As he said, it could have happen to a pedestrian or cyclist traveling through the crosswalk as is very common in Boston and elsewhere I imagine.

Tobias


www.segwayboston.org

[bicycledriver]

quote:Originally posted by axiotek
So were you right Steve? Is this what happen? I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding the accident. Bill was in the crosswalk correct?, and this is not contra-flow (or is it?). Aside from the illumination/reflection issue, did Bill's position on the street contribute to lack of safety?


I concluded from Bill's words (in particular "Most are only looking to their left") that Bill was coming from the motorist's right, i.e contra-flow. The motorist, who was looking left in preparation for a right-on-red, was not looking in Bill's direction. This type of crash is so common for (contra-flow) sidewalk cyclists that I felt confident predicting that it would be the first reported car-Segway crash, and I believe this is what happened given Bill's description.

Besides coming from an unexpected direction, several other factors can contribute to the motorist's failure to see a Segway user. Did darkness reduce the Segway user's visibility, having no headlamp, and given that the car's headlamps would not illuminate the Segway on a right-angle intersecting path until it is too late? Did the Segway rider arrive at the intersection fast enough that the motorist did not notice him while the motorist was approaching the intersection? Were there sight obstructions that made the Segway user invisible until just before the Segway user entered the crosswalk area?

Regular pedestrians do face great risks from right-on-red maneuvers. In some cities, injuries to lawful pedestrians increased greatly after laws allowing right-on-red were passed. The most recent fatality to a pedestrian in my city of Cary, NC was by a motorist turning right-on-red in daylight. Something needs to be done about the problem. But, there are a few aspects of Segways and bicycles that exacerbate the right-on-red hazard for these operators:

1. These vehicle operators arrive at the crosswalk more quickly than do ordinary pedestrians, giving motorists less time to notice them on approach.

2. These operators cannot stop as quickly or jump to the side or backward when the car lurches forward the way many pedestrians can.

3. The increased speeds of bicycles and Segways encourage longer travel distances, which increases the number of junctions they must cross per trip and per unit of time, making junction hazards a more important safety issue.

To reduce junction hazards, vehicle operators should (A) use a headlamp at night, and (B) approach junctions from directions where other road users are looking for vehicle traffic. Unfortunately, Segway LLC has chosen not to emphasize (A) in their vehicle design or user training, contrary to what is widely known about the hazards of travel in darkness, and has taken steps to prohibit Segway operators from performing (B) through legislation passed in most states.

Steve Goodridge
http://humantransport.org/bicycledriving/

[ryanvasan]

Wow, I got hit by a car today, and it was completely the other guy's fault. I was crossing the street in a well lit area, mid-afternoon sun pouring down, and the guy turns left and just doesn't see me at all. His green camaro came accelerating towards me and made contact with the left wheel, throwing the segway to my right, and my momentum keeping me going forward. he must have braked before collision, because he stopped pretty quickly and asked if i was okay, quickly admitting that he just didn't see me. i got up and limped out of the road, the seg pulled behind me beeping from what i assume is leaving the ground and doing a safety shutdown. i was just about to ask for the guy's info just in case, but after i said i was okay he drove off. a few people around also asked if i was okay, but aside from a bloody elbow from braking the fall, i wasn't really scratched up that bad. I the left fender hit my shin after impact, giving me a rounded, long bruise on my left leg. i tried to turn the segway on again and it immediately powered up and was ready to roll, amazing. i rolled down my usual sidewalk, and it felt a little bumpier than usual, maybe it was just my nerves. i'm going to try to get my seg checked out by a friend who interned for segway and deka, maybe he can give me some assurance that the guy who i will probably never track down didn't do any significant damage. all in all, i hope this NEVER happens to anyone else aside from detrbear and myself!

-Ryan

[BruceWright]

Ryan,

I do hope you're okay.

Were you travelling with flow or contra-flow?

This guy came from across the street, turning left. Did you see him before you entered the intersection? What was your speed in the intersection?

Sounds like a jerk, speeding off like that. Hope you were wearing a helmet.

I think that a good tip is to go walking speed in intersections, and get eye contact from every driver before leaving the sidewalk.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[mzokc]

Ryan,

Thanks for the report. Glad you are OK. The left turn drivers are a concern as I have had to stop and reverse on occasion. Since I encounter very few cars during a glide, I usually wait when I must cross the street.

When they give me a wave to go ahead, it is very much appreciated.

If I want them to make their turns first, I sometimes turn the Segway so my back is toward them. They know to start driving, then if all is clear, I cross the street.

Thanks to bicycledriver, I switched within the first week to gliding with the flow of traffic. With a rear view mirror on the helmet, I can check if cars are coming from behind. I glide off the road whenever possible to avoid the passing car. I am a bit frustrated with the bike lanes that are all on the south lanes in my neighborhood! Gliding north is more dangerous when using those empty bike lanes, but the north bound lanes have no passing room.

Mark

PS: Protect your vision with glasses when using a helmet mounted rear view mirror. Mine hit the glasses during one fall on the grass.

[bicycledriver]

Ryan,

I hope that you and your wheels are okay. Sorry to hear about your collision. Left-turning drivers are a problem for pedestrians, cyclists, and motorcyclists. Left-cross collisions caused by a driver turning left across the path of an oncoming (opposite direction) motorcycle or bicycle are the most common type of collisions to lawfully operating motorcyclists and lawfully-operating on-roadway bicyclists.

Motorcycle and bicycle driver safety training teaches these users to reduce their chances of left-cross collision by operating near the center of the through lane, or even slightly left of center of the lane, in order to maximize their visibility when entering an intersection. I have had a few drivers turn left in front of me, forcing me to perform emergency braking, despite using these techniques. I wear a bright neon cycling jersey and keep my hands on the brake hoods as a result.

Crossing the intersection from the sidewalk prevents one from using road positioning to improve visibility. Here all one can do is try to wear bright clothing, travel slowly, and be prepared to stop suddenly or back up. The latter maneuvers are more difficult for seniors, parents with children, and anyone using wheels. This is why law enforcement is so important, as is good design of pedestrian-friendly intersections.

I hope you reported this collision to the police and pursue the case aggressively. Did you get the names and numbers of the witnesses. Leaving the scene of an injury accident is a crime, and the police should take it seriously.

-Steve Goodridge