Can draining the batteries be THIS good for them?

[Burke]

Those who were at SegFest or have read about the battery lessons will remember that Ron Reich said to discharge them completely every 10-20 cycles. I had thought the red face was something to be avoided, but coincidentally, the night we arrived, my Seg wasn't very charged at all and quickly ended up on the red face for the very first time.

So the Segways arrived home safely in California last Friday, and today I got to glide to work again. This was the first decent ride since it drained in Chicago. Normally my second-to-last bar is blinking by the time I get here (6.75 miles). You can imagine my surprise when I arrived at the office this morning and the top bar was the ONLY one gone--#2 wasn't even blinking.

So was this probably some kind of fluke, or is draining them THAT good for them? If so, I'm impressed!

Since SegFest of course I'm also much more conscious of gliding evenly and avoiding the delimiter, but I don't think I glided that much more carefully today.

It's tempting to see if I can get all the way home without charging, but I'm not willing to take the chance. I let them cool down and plugged in.

Janice

[dhugger]

My batteries were acting very strange... going from 90% to 60% in a matter of about 5 minutes. The one thing on that list (from seg fest)that I handn't done in a while was a full discharge, so I tried it. After that, Ginger's pep was back to normal.

-Derek Hugger-

[q]

quote:Originally posted by dhugger

My batteries were acting very strange... going from 90% to 60% in a matter of about 5 minutes. The one thing on that list (from seg fest)that I handn't done in a while was a full discharge, so I tried it. After that, Ginger's pep was back to normal.

-Derek Hugger-


//

i should start draining mine;
although, it scares the "bagee-
bees" outta me. (i don't han-
dle "getting stranded," well.)

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_sunday_3b.jpg

//

[SegwayUtah]

Someone correct me if this is bad advice :)

To drain your batteries safely every 10-20 cycles (every 2-3 weeks):
1. Ride your machine until you are out of juice (or at least down to a bar or two of power: less power means step #3 will be faster).
2. Allow your machine to cool down (i.e. the batteries, and at least 15 minutes, 3 hours is optimal).
3. Turn on your machine, put it in balance mode, and set it up against the wall; it will run until the battery is dead.
4. Repeat step #2 only (let your batteries cool down)
5. Plug your machine in for at least 8 hours, 12 hours is preferable

If anyone ever has a problem with battery issues, try this procedure and see if it doesn't make everything better :)

Again, no warranty here, expressed or implied; this is just what has worked well for a few of us.

Chris

[mzokc]

Chris,

Running it beyond the red screen was not recommended. Restarting it after getting a shut down was highly discouraged. I would run it until the red screen and then wait and charge. You will have time to push it home during the wait if you don't plan the glide carefully!

Mark

[terryp]

Burke -

Let us know if you do as well on your next commute.

I normally make it home from work with one bar left - sometimes blinking - but I've always made it. Today was my first commute since SegwayFest (we stayed a few extra days), and I could tell right away that the batteries were depleting faster than normal. So I took the bike trail, which is about the same distance, but flatter, than my normal route. I also kept my speed down to under 10, and had pumped my tires to 19 psi this morning. Still, my HT reached 10% about a half mile from home, and shut down a block away. (My commute is only 5+ miles.)

That's the first time I've ever let it get that low. I always assumed that getting down to 10% or so every day was close enough to a full discharge that my range should stay near maximum. So I'm anxious to see if it improves drasticly tomorrow after a more complete discharge.

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[terryp]

I just arrived at work with a solid 50%, compared to the 20-30% I normally see, and it was colder this morning than usual. Looks like it really, really works!

Segway.com should add this to their 'How can I get more range' topic.

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[reonh]

I put a twelve hour charge on one of the battery sets we ran down to zero charge on the Mt Washington ascent and then took the Segway up our practice road (A condominium area built on a hillside with a road going up 2+ miles with comparable grades to the auto road). I hit the top with only one bar drained and after cooling about a minute the first bar started flashing again. Wish I had read this thread before we went up the "Rockpile".

Next time...



Rob Owen

[powderhound]

Rob - what was the distance and grade of Mt. Washington? - at some point - us coloradans need to ascend Mt. Evans - a 14 thousand foot mountain with a paved road to the top - I think the road is longer but not as steep as Mt. Washington.

Any one here want to join up? As it gets colder (but not too cold) we can go longer on a battery!

Don

[toybuilder]

While this doesn't directly address Segway's specific batteries, Duracell's technical bulletin on NiMH battery technology gives a good overview of the care and feeding of NiMH batteries.

In particular, the discussion on memory effects in section 5.9 is illuminating on the question of the need to do a full discharge/recharge cycle.

http://www.duracell.com/oem/Pdf/others/TECHBULL.pdf

http://www.pasadenasegway.org/

[toybuilder]

Oh, one other thing that is worth repeating (it's been mentioned a few times around the forum) is to let your batteries cool off before starting the charging process. Ron suggested a 3 hour cooling period for maximum effect.

This might seem obvious, but I figured out a way to make sure I don't forget to plug in -- I now park my Segway in two different places at home -- "cooling" and "charging". I will walk by the Segway on my way to bed at night, so I'll be sure to notice and move it to plug in...

http://www.pasadenasegway.org/

[Neelix]

One thing that Kelsey figured out (maybe somebody else beat her to it, but I was there when she first did it, so I give her credit =)) at SegFest, and I'm sure somebody out there has the means to do a similar thing in their own home, was to park the Segway over the cooling vents under the big windows when charging. If someone has a vent near the floor or can rig a fan or somesuch underneath the Segway, the batteries will stay cool during charging.

-------------------------
Fear not, for even though I come from the Forbidden City, I surely do not agree with the rules.
Chris Knight

[Stewbonz]

Toybuilder, Thats a great article about batteries by Duracell.
Like Ron said: Let batteries cool before charging.
It's good to run them down most of the way once in a while, but not good to fully deplete them.(reverses polarity in weaker cells)
Also on page 22 is a paragraph that I copied about transporting these by air. Might be good to carry that paragraph with you if you ship batteries by air.

JEFF JARVIS
Carmel Valley Ca

[terryp]

I'm guessing that you can't discharge the batteries far enough to damage them while they're on the HT, and that when the unit shuts off due to low batteries, that's the level Ron was referring to when he said to let them 'fully discharge' every 10 cycles or so. Am I right?

Today I arrived home with 50% remaining, vs. my usual 10-20%. I had gone at least a mile further than usual when the top bar started flashing. That's even better than yesterday, and it was raining today. I did two things different today. 1) I waited for the batteries to cool before plugging in. 2) I gave some demos to visitors just before quitting time, so plugged it in for 15 minutes of fast charge just before leaving. One or the other or both made quite a difference.

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[pam]

Well, since I was told by a Segway employee to leave mine in balance mode up against a wall until the unit shut off, I'm tending to agree with you terryp.

Pam

[Stewbonz]

Terry, I think its OK to run the batteries till safety shutdown. Just dont try to restart and drain every last bit of juice. Not good. There are 60 batteries in the case. Some cells are a bit weaker than others. Trying to drain them all will damage the weak cells.

JEFF JARVIS
Carmel Valley Ca

[reonh]

Thank you Toybuilder for posting that Duracell link.

For Powderhorn. The auto road is about 8 miles long with an average grade of 12%. There are two sections at the base one short another about a 1/4 - 1/2 mile of 18% grade, another short 18% grade on "Hairpin Turn" and about 75 feet of 22% grade right at the top (just to make it exciting). (www.mountwashingtonautoroad.com) Good luck on Mt Evans. That sounds like a good challenge. Do your homework on battery technology and you should be in good shape. Wish we could join you.

Rob Owen

[stevew]

My battery performance (range) seems so variable, I don't know if it's recharging protocol or just riding style and other variables. One of my most common glides is downhill from home (300' elevation change) to the convenience store, then back up again of course. Sometimes I can go through 2 1/2 bars on this trek, tonight used only 1/2 bar! I'm convinced my range is just as influenced by : ambient temperature, whether I've just recharged and got extreme speed limiter on the downhill run, tire pressure, riding style, speed, how much stuff I have in my backpack or front bag, and whether I've gained or lost a few pounds recently!

[stevew]

My battery performance (range) seems so variable, I don't know if it's recharging protocol or just riding style and other variables. One of my most common glides is downhill from home (300' elevation change) to the convenience store, then back up again of course. Sometimes I can go through 2 1/2 bars on this trek, tonight used only 1/2 bar! I'm convinced my range is just as influenced by : ambient temperature, whether I've just recharged and got extreme speed limiter on the downhill run, tire pressure, riding style, speed, how much stuff I have in my backpack or front bag, and whether I've gained or lost a few pounds recently!