Golden Gate Glide

[SteveWoz]

This evening we glided across the Golden Gate Bridge.

Near the Sausalito end, we were turned back by a bicycle 'ranger' who explained that no motorized vehicles were allowed.

I didn't see any such indications on the bridge web site, and an entrance sign referred to "Skateboards, Roller Skates and Motor Driven Cycles."

[statmed]

Hey X-Man

Don't you think that perhaps a visit to the lcoal police station to speak to this officers superior would be better than waiting for another encounter.

If he already has that attitude, your next encounter may not be that nice, but if you put his superiors on notice, he will also be on notice.



H.M. Stern
statmed@optonline.net

I Love It When A Plan Comes Together (Hannibal Smith)

[Sal]

What is this handout, and can those who didn't get one at Segwayfest have one that can be downloadable in .pdf format on this site and print it off?

-Sal

[GlideMaster]

Yes x-man he was wrong. But then you know; there's one in every crowd. Wait till he runs into me.

<center>http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/avatars/glidemaster.gif</center>

quote:Originally posted by X-man

I was stopped by a constipated cop last week myself at Huron and Michigan. One of the arrogant, "I'm always right" types. Tried to explain to him about the local ordinaance but he wouldn't even check at my request. Officer Edward A. Richards, Badge 2125, 18th District. Gave me his calling card and told me that if he saw me again he would give me a citation.

That's the first time I've been stopped by a uniform other than to be questioned about the machine or have a demo request. Pure and simple, this uniform was uninformed. I didn't have the handout that was available to all at Segway Fest but I sure have it in my 12.1 bag now. I am looking forward to my next encounter with this cluck.

A short time later I was also stoped by another officer at Clark and Randolph who was just curious about the machine and where I got it. He wanted to know the capabilities of my "I". I told him of the previous encounter and he just said that the machines are legal and the "arrogant one" was wrong. Just goes to show that it is not necessarily the law , it's the interpretation by the individual and all the enforcers are not up to date with the respective legal status of the Segway.

Go get 'em, Woz. He called my motorized also. He's wrong and I can prove it. Hope your laws out there in CA get updated.

The Lone Glider! :)

[Neelix]

Steve, just tell an uninformed officer an uninformed response, like, "Its not motorized. It runs off of GRAVITY!" =)

-------------------------
Fear not, for even though I come from the Forbidden City, I surely do not agree with the rules.

[ElectraGlide]

X-Man........did he give you the feeling that he's intimidating you for the sole purpose of keeping Segways off North Michigan Avenue ?

Steve

[JaneJetson]

ooooh, GlideMaster -- I'd pay good money to be on the sidelines for THAT encounter! :&gt;

[GlideMaster]

Hi Jane, I will be jetting (gliding) around on Michigan.

<center>Member of "The Order Of The Fenders"</center>

<center>http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/avatars/glidemaster.gif</center>

quote:Originally posted by JaneJetson

ooooh, GlideMaster -- I'd pay good money to be on the sidelines for THAT encounter! :&gt;

[q]

as seg enthusiasts, we'll
always be vulnerable to
"rogueness." so, we have
to be vigilent. also, we
must ready to document the
events for possible further
examination in a better
forum.

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_sunday_3a.jpg

//

[toybuilder]

I made a batch of Segway fact-cards that list key attributes of the HT, including a mention in the middle of the California Vehicle Codes that specifically allow the use of HT's. I always keep some on hand so that I can innocently say, "Oh, I think I have the information on my fact card.... Here it is!"


http://www.pasadenasegway.org/

[Brooster]

quote:Originally posted by salkulkarni

What is this handout, and can those who didn't get one at Segwayfest have one that can be downloadable in .pdf format on this site and print it off?


Sal, it was just a handout that referenced the memo read at Chicago Police Department roll call earlier this summer, which states that Segway HT riders have all the rights and duties applicable to pedestrians. Unless you're riding in Chicago, it wouldn't really be something you'd need.

Steve, that sounds like a fun ride ... at least the portion of it that you were able to complete!

[:P][8]

Brooster

[SteveWoz]

After my nighttime Golden Gate Glide (dark, empty) and turnback (at the very END fortunately) I re-read the California laws. These laws specifically exclude the "EPAMD" from motorized scooter, etc. considerations. I can't read this law with any other conclusion than that a state agency would have had to ban EPAMD's after March 1, 2003, the date that this law giving them the ability went into effect.

As a side note, San Francisco banned EPAMD's on sidewalks prior to March 1, 2003, in other words before the state law giving them that right went into effect.

I plan to carry the California law with me in the future.

ok a new size tv

[jbauer]

Woz, can you (or anyone else) please post the law here so that we can all print it out and carry it with us?

- Thanx
- Jon

[pt]

here ya go:
http://www.segwaychat.com/segway-laws/California-Segway.asp

and:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/01-02/bill/sen/sb_1901-1950/sb_1918_bill_20020927_chaptered.pdf

there might be more, but i think this is it.

cheers,
pt

[jbauer]

Hm. So, it's basically illegal on the sidewalks in SF, where I live. So I know that the cops don't really care to bust people with Segways, but they COULD if they wanted to...

- Jon

[q]

quote:Originally posted by jbauer

Hm. So, it's basically illegal on the sidewalks in SF, where I live. So I know that the cops don't really care to bust people with Segways, but they COULD if they wanted to...

- Jon


//

...same principle for jay-walking,
here.

kthxbye.

q.

http://www.pcisys.net/~qwhew/segway/jpg_segway_sfest_08312003_sunday_3e.jpg

//

[Sleepy]

Woz,
I contacted the Golden Gate Transit Authority regarding Segway regulations on the bridge, and I'm waiting to hear back. I wanted to make sure we don't have problems with our group glide across the bridge. A Menlo Park owner was also asked to leave the eastern side a while back.
There are certain times during the day when bikes are not allowed on the eastern side of the bridge. However, the western side is open to bikes, and hopefully Segways. Regarding CA law on the bridge: I've heard that the bridge falls under national park regulations-- which is independent from CA state law. So they can regulate Segway use on the bridge however they please. This is not confirmed-- but what I've been told by some sources.

-Alex

[toybuilder]

California Vehicle Code Division 1- Words and Phrases Defined


313 Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device

313. (a) The term "electric personal assistive mobility device" or "EPAMD" means a self-balancing, nontandem two-wheeled device, that can turn in place, designed to transport only one person, with an electric propulsion system averaging less than 750 watts (1 horsepower), the maximum speed of which, when powered solely by a propulsion system on a paved level surface, is less than 12.5 miles per hour.

(b) This section shall become operative on March 1, 2003, and remain in effect only until January 1, 2008, and as of that date is repealed, unless a later enacted statute, that is enacted before January 1, 2008, deletes or extends that date.


407.5 Motorized Scooters: Manufacturer Disclosure

407.5. (a) A "motorized scooter" is any two-wheeled device that has handlebars, is designed to be stood or sat upon by the operator, and is powered by an electric motor that is capable of propelling the device with or without human propulsion. For purposes of this section, an electric personal assistive mobility device, as defined in Section 313, a motorcycle, as defined in Section 400, a motor-driven cycle, as defined in Section 405, a motorized bicycle or moped, as defined in Section 406, or a toy, as defined in Section 108550 of the Health and Safety Code, is not a motorized scooter.

(b) A device meeting the definition in subdivision (a) that is powered by a source other than electrical power is also a motorized scooter.

(c) (1) Every manufacturer of motorized scooters shall provide a disclosure to buyers that advises buyers that their existing insurance policies may not provide coverage for these scooters and that they should contact their insurance company or insurance agent to determine if coverage is provided.

(2) The disclosure required under paragraph (1) shall meet both of the following requirements:

(A) The disclosure shall be printed in not less than 14-point boldface type on a single sheet of paper that contains no information other than the disclosure.

(B) The disclosure shall include the following language in capital letters:

"YOUR INSURANCE POLICIES MAY NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR ACCIDENTS INVOLVING THE USE OF THIS SCOOTER. TO DETERMINE IF COVERAGE IS PROVIDED, YOU SHOULD CONTACT YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY OR AGENT."

(d) The amendments made by this section shall become operative on March 1, 2003, and this section shall remain in effect only until January 1, 2008, and as of that date is repealed, unless a later enacted statute, that is enacted before January 1, 2008, deletes or extends that date.


467 Pedestrian

467. (a) A "pedestrian" is any person who is afoot or who is using ( ) . any of the following:

(1) A means of conveyance propelled by human power other than a bicycle.

(2) An electric personnel assistive mobility device as defined in Section 313.

(b) "Pedestrian" includes any person who is operating a self-propelled wheelchair, invalid tricycle, or motorized quadricycle and, by reason of physical disability, is otherwise unable to move about as a pedestrian, as specified in subdivision (a).

(c) The amendments made by this section shall become operative on March 1, 2003, and this section shall remain in effect only until January 1, 2008, and as of that date is repealed, unless a later enacted statute, that is enacted before January 1, 2008, deletes or extends that date.


California Vehicle Code Division 11 - Rules of the Road
Chapter 1. Obediance to and Effect of Traffic Laws
Article 6. Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Devices


21280 Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device: Legislative Intent

21280. (a) The Legislature finds and declares the following:

(1) This state has severe traffic congestion and air pollution problems, particularly in its cities, and finding ways to reduce these problems is of paramount importance.

(2) Electric personal assistive mobility devices that meet the definition contained in Section 313 operate solely on electricity and employ advances in technology to safely integrate the user in pedestrian transportation.

(3) Electric personal assistive mobility devices would enable California businesses, public officials, and individuals to travel farther and carry more w use of traditional vehicles, thereby promoting gains in productivity, minimizing environmental impacts, and facilitating better use of public ways.

(b) The Legislature is adding this article as part of its program to promote the use of no-emission transportation.


21280.5 Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device: Definition

21280.5. For purposes of this article, an electric personal assistive mobility device is defined in Section 313.


21281 Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device: Safety Equipment

21281. Every electric personal assistive mobility device, or EPAMD, shall be equipped with the following safety mechanisms:

(a) Front, rear, and side reflectors.

(b) A system that enables the operator to bring the device to a controlled stop.

(c) If the EPAMD is operated between one-half hour after sunset and one-half hour before sunrise, a lamp emitting a white light that, while the EPAMD is in motion, illuminates the area in front of the operator and is visible from a distance of 300 feet in front of the EPAMD.

(d) A sound emitting device that can be activated from time to time by the operator, as appropriate, to alert nearby persons.


21282 Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device: Local Regulation

21282. Notwithstanding Section 21966, for the purpose of assuring the safety of pedestrians, including seniors, persons with disabilities, and others using sidewalks, bike paths, pathways, trails, bike lanes, streets, roads, and highways, a city, county, or city and county may, by ordinance, regulate the time, place, and manner of the operation of electric personal assistive mobility devices as defined in Section 313, and their use as a pedestrian pursuant to paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 467, including limiting, prohibiting entirely in the local jurisdiction, or prohibiting use in specified areas as determined to be appropriate by local entities. State agencies may limit or prohibit the time, place, and manner of use on state property.


21283 Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device: Operative Dates

21283. This article shall become operative on March 1, 2003, and shall remain in effect only until January 1, 2008, and as of that date is repealed, unless a later enacted statute, that is enacted before January 1, 2008, deletes or extends that date.


California Vehicle Code Division 11 - Rules of the Road
Chapter 5. Pedestrians' Rights and Duties

21956 Pedestrian on Roadway

21956. (a) No pedestrian may walk upon any roadway outside of a business or residence district otherwise than close to his or her left-hand edge of the roadway.

(b) A pedestrian may walk close to his or her right-hand edge of the roadway if a crosswalk or other means of safely crossing the roadway is not available or if existing traffic or other conditions would compromise the safety of a pedestrian attempting to cross the road.


21966 Pedestrian in Bicycle Lane

21966. No pedestrian shall proceed along a bicycle path or lane where there is an adjacent adequate pedestrian facility



http://www.pasadenasegway.org/

[jbauer]

I'll bet we could get clearance for a group Segway ride across the bridge... especially if we got a local news agency to cover it. I can get THAT part arranged, I think...

- Jon

[Sleepy]

Hey Jon,
We'll be discussing the details of the group glide over the bridge at the meeting on the 20th at the Cal Games (I hope you get your Seg by then!). If you have contacts with the media, that would be great. I'm just hoping we'll get a good turn-out.

Woz, I emailed Sharon to check your schedule in October, but I didn't hear back. Would you be interested in joining us?

-Alex

[clm]

quote:Originally posted by Sleepy

Woz,
I contacted the Golden Gate Transit Authority regarding Segway regulations on the bridge, and I'm waiting to hear back. I wanted to make sure we don't have problems with our group glide across the bridge. A Menlo Park owner was also asked to leave the eastern side a while back.
There are certain times during the day when bikes are not allowed on the eastern side of the bridge. However, the western side is open to bikes, and hopefully Segways. Regarding CA law on the bridge: I've heard that the bridge falls under national park regulations-- which is independent from CA state law. So they can regulate Segway use on the bridge however they please. This is not confirmed-- but what I've been told by some sources.

-Alex



Yeah, I got this run around from park rangers here in my area. After some digging I found that the Resources code "refers" the California vehicle code. This means that EPAMDs are pedestrians in the parks by code, unless an authority has specifically ban them from an area for cause.

You might also remind rangers that by their oath their job is to enforce the spirit of the law, and the law says that EPAMDs are pedestrians unless there is a specific safety exception.

Chris

[dave]

quote:Originally posted by Sleepy

Woz,
I contacted the Golden Gate Transit Authority regarding Segway regulations on the bridge, and I'm waiting to hear back. I wanted to make sure we don't have problems with our group glide across the bridge. A Menlo Park owner was also asked to leave the eastern side a while back.
There are certain times during the day when bikes are not allowed on the eastern side of the bridge. However, the western side is open to bikes, and hopefully Segways. Regarding CA law on the bridge: I've heard that the bridge falls under national park regulations-- which is independent from CA state law. So they can regulate Segway use on the bridge however they please. This is not confirmed-- but what I've been told by some sources.

-Alex




Yes the Golden Gate Bridge falls under National Park Regulations....
So lets look in the National Park Regulations:

TITLE 36--PARKS, FORESTS, AND PUBLIC PROPERTY

CHAPTER I--NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

PART 4--VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC SAFETY--Table of Contents

Sec. 4.2 State law applicable.

(a) Unless specifically addressed by regulations in this chapter,
traffic and the use of vehicles within a park area are governed by State
law. State law that is now or may later be in effect is adopted and made
a part of the regulations in this part.
(b) Violating a provision of State law is prohibited.



There is no regulation that I have been able to find online that governs Segways, or any of the other acronyms such as EAPMD. Since there is no regulation specifically mentioning EAPMD's, since the Golden Gate Park is in California, per 36 CFR 4.2 the California Vehicle Code is appicable in the Golden Gate Park, and the bridge.

[Sleepy]

Chris/Dave,
Thanks for the info! This should help my case when I go to talk to them in person. Email doesn't seem to be getting any response.

-Alex

[JohnM]

Looks like the GG Brdge is under the Golden Gate Bridge, Highway & Transportation District, not the NPS.
http://www.goldengate.org

[PoloAk]

ride in the street

break a leg

sue the city for reckless endangerment of a pedestrian

bargain for rights

spend 6-8 wks knowing you got "em," . . .we'll sign your cast :)







And segways are NOT scooters. We have NON-TANDEM wheels. Eat that, lawyers.

CZWMDV,

Kelsey