The Stirling/Segway project

[Seeker]

For lack of a better title, I've termed the project Dean Kamen has envisioned, of bringing cheap electricity & pure water to 3rd world nations as, 'The Stirling project'.In actuality,since Kamen has implied that the Segway would be part of this thrust, it could be called, the 'Stirling/Segway project' ; that is, until someone thinks of a better name, or this project is introduced formally, with another name.

The challenge before Kamen and Company, is to bring this technology,to the people who would greatly benefit from it, but at the same time, could scarcely afford it..given the average level of income in the 3rd world. Kamen has himself acknowledged, that he has no business model for the Stirling/Segway project,but that it will be up to business people, to provide the business acumen, to turn this dream into a reality.

I have a preliminary idea which involves people in 3rd world countries providing a source of labour, in return for Stirling/Segway technologies. I realize that there are abuses of 'cheap labour' throughout the world, but maybe we could go with the assumption that this would not be a concern.

If electricity & pure water could be provided to people in 3rd world countries, could this give the people some tools they need, to be able to perform some types of work, and receive financial remuneration for it ? If so, what types of jobs might these be ?

But possibly there are some other solutions that you could envision, to address the problem of finding ways for people in the 3rd world to pay for Stirling/Segway technology.


So I'll throw out a challenge to the good people at Segwaychat. What business models could you come up with, to enable people in 3rd world countries to afford a Stirling, or Stirling/Segway combination ?

Seeker

[yop]

To begin, I think the entire Stirling/Segway package will be way too expensive. It would be better if they could start with a "basic" model and then sell upgrades. Maybe the basic model would be just the Stirling to generate electricity. One upgrade would be an efficient oven/stove to use the waste heat from the Stirling for cooking. Another would be the water purifier. An electric motor and battery that would turn it into a powered wheelbarrow (like a Segway without DS, only usable in "follow" mode). The final upgrade would add the DS sensors and electronics. Maybe the electronics could even be like that iSegway April Fool article that was posted a few days ago. Instead of being internal to the Segway and completely dedicated to running the Segway control algorithms, maybe the electronics could be a laptop that unplugs from the rest of the machine.

Each upgrade adds useful features, but it won't require ten years' worth of savings all at once. If the Stirling is as reliable as advertised, the upgrades could be purchased over the course of many years.

However, even allowing people to purchase their Stirling/Segway piecemeal like this, it may still be necessary to provide financing. The problem here is that subsistence farmers are very likely to default on their loans. Part of the problem is their unsteady cash flow. But I think the biggest problem is that subsistence farmers just don't feel much sting from the typical penalties for defaulting on a loan. Compared to going hungry, a bad credit report doesn't seem so ominous. So some other form of penalty is necessary. Unfortunately, the sorts of penalties that would be threatening to someone living hand-to-mouth tend to be morally objectionable. Death, slavery, loss of body parts, etc. would work, but they are not acceptable to us. We find ourselves in a situation where we can't help the needy help themselves because they are too poor and we are too civilized. Crazy. Frustrating. I don't know....

[Seeker]

One avenue which could be explored, as far as providing money for people in the 3rd world, to buy Stirlings, would be to work together with charitable organizations. If charitable organizations are already providing food,clothing, medical supplies, etc to people in 3rd world countries, then some of them may be interested in using some of their resources, towards providing clean water to villages. This might be especially helpful in situations where the lack of potable water, is the cause of many of the diseases, which people are suffering from. Of course, this does bring up the question of whether a Stirling water purifier system is the best/most economical way to purify the water. But if a portable electrical generator, is seen as something that would help people a lot, then the Stirling water purifying system might appear to be a worthwhile long-term investment.

Seeker

[axiotek]

quote:The problem here is that subsistence farmers are very likely to default on their loans.

I think you'll find that micro-lending programs in third world countries have an extremely low default rate. I'm not necessarily talking about farmers however. Clean potable water in the future will become increasingly scarce. Water wars are already being seen at low levels in many areas. I am personally amazed at the potential of the water purifier.. In the end, the world (rich countries) will not be able to afford to do nothing despite the cost of the technology.

[Deviant]

My understanding is that the waste (underused?) heat powers water distillation.

Most third world water problems come from living organisms, so except for rare areas, they can pasteurize (around 165F) their water for consumption by heating it with a solar cooker. www.solarcooking.org has lots of extremely cheap answers to that, and that organization has been instrumental in providing these "water pasteurizers" to thousands of families.

Make electricity cheaply - that'd be great.

[Casey]

quote: Make electricity cheaply - that'd be great.

And use the waste heat to pasteurize or distill the water. Even greater.

[yop]

Does anyone know how the water purifier works in Kamen's engine? Apparently, the unpurified water is used to chill the cold end of the Stirling. This causes the water to evaporate, purifying it by distillation. But this would mean that the cold end of the Stirling is running at the boiling temperature of water. That seems awfully hot for the cold end of something. Is this really how it works? Or is it more complicated? Maybe the distillation occurs under reduced pressure (which lowers the boiling point)?

[don c.]

quote:Originally posted by yop

Does anyone know how the water purifier works in Kamen's engine? Apparently, the unpurified water is used to chill the cold end of the Stirling. This causes the water to evaporate, purifying it by distillation. But this would mean that the cold end of the Stirling is running at the boiling temperature of water. That seems awfully hot for the cold end of something. Is this really how it works? Or is it more complicated? Maybe the distillation occurs under reduced pressure (which lowers the boiling point)?


This is a quote from a somewhat dated (Sep. 2000) "Wired" article:

The device is called the Stirling engine; Kamen hopes it can be developed into an affordable, portable machine that will run a water purifier/power generator that could zap contaminated H20 with a UV laser to make it safe for drinking. "It can burn any fuel, and you can do all kinds of things with it," he says. "It might be very valuable in emerging economies, giving them access to electricity, even the Net."

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.09/kamen.html

[GyroGo]

I think the best plans will come from the local level, like groups of families or small businesses pooling their funds together to share one, kinda like what happened with cell-phones in some underdeveloped nations. But it certainly would be great if more organized socio-economic structures lent a hand.

www.StirlingInfo.com

[Seeker]

quote:Originally posted by yop

Does anyone know how the water purifier works in Kamen's engine? Apparently, the unpurified water is used to chill the cold end of the Stirling. This causes the water to evaporate, purifying it by distillation. But this would mean that the cold end of the Stirling is running at the boiling temperature of water. That seems awfully hot for the cold end of something. Is this really how it works? Or is it more complicated? Maybe the distillation occurs under reduced pressure (which lowers the boiling point)?



I've heard that the 'cold' end of the Stirling is not really cold, it's actually quite warm, but just cool in relation to the 'hot' end. Will have to check on the American Stirling site, as they probably have more info relating to the temperature difference between the 2 ends, and the operating temperatures of both ends. Those Deka patents also will likely have this type of info. As far I know, they don't have any specific patents out yet, relating the 'distiller' part of the water purifying apparatus.

Seeker

[yop]

quote:Originally posted by don c.
The device is called the Stirling engine; Kamen hopes it can be developed into an affordable, portable machine that will run a water purifier/power generator that could zap contaminated H20 with a UV laser to make it safe for drinking.


This sounds like a violation of the second law of thermodynamics. The water purifier is supposed to run off of the Stirling's waste heat. Lots of entropy there. Lasers are low entropy.

Also, has a good UV laser even been developed? I thought I read that the development of the blue light laser was a recent major accomplishment. (Because it allows CD's and DVD's to hold many times more data.) The challenge has to do with the difficulty maintaining a large population of electrons in the excited state. Much more difficult for a high energy gap (blue light) than for a low energy gap (red light). UV would be even more difficult. UV lasers can probably be done, but it's probably very inefficient now, useful only for research purposes.

Either distillation or heat pasteurization seems much more likely than a UV laser for the water purifier.

[Deviant]

I believe the term UV laser may have been incorrect. UV light generates ozone which is used to kill organisms in water.

[don c.]

quote: Also, has a good UV laser even been developed? I thought I read that the development of the blue light laser was a recent major accomplishment. (Because it allows CD's and DVD's to hold many times more data.) The challenge has to do with the difficulty maintaining a large population of electrons in the excited state. Much more difficult for a high energy gap (blue light) than for a low energy gap (red light). UV would be even more difficult. UV lasers can probably be done, but it's probably very inefficient now, useful only for research purposes.

Either distillation or heat pasteurization seems much more likely than a UV laser for the water purifier.


UV lasers do exist, and UV LED's apparently are now being developed, but the LED's power output probably wouldn't accomplish much in the way of air or water purification. There is a well established market for UV water filtration units for drinking water or fish ponds, but these use UV bulbs, not lasers.

[u]A few links about ultraviolet water purifiers:</u>

http://www.aquadoc.com/pura.htm

http://www.hydro-photon.com/

http://www.caitechnologies.com/uv.htm "Ultraviolet (UV-C) irradiation is now accepted by both the EPA and the FDA as a safe, effective method of bacteria control.

Ultraviolet (UV-C) water disinfection is an extremely safe and reliable method of disinfecting and sterilizing Point-of-Use drinking water. It is rapid, leaves no bad taste or odor in the water and carries no risk of overdose. Ultraviolet (UV-C) Light is also a "World Health Organization" Approved method of disinfecting water. (Guidelines for Drinking Water Quality, vol. 1, World Health Organization, Geneva, Switzerland, 1993, p. 135)

The benefits of using Ultraviolet (UV-C) light rather than other methods is that it does NOT alter pH, taste, or affect the chemical composition in any way when used for disinfection purposes. It is a NON-CHEMICAL approach for microbial control and produces NO toxic by-products. "


http://www.purestfilters.com/ultraviolet.htm "How do UV water purifiers work?

UV water purifier units contain one or more germicidal ultraviolet lamps. The Ster-L-Ray germicidal lamp brand are short wave low pressure mercury vapor tubes that produce ultraviolet wavelengths that are lethal to micro-organisms. Approximately 95% of the ultraviolet energy emitted is at the mercury resonance line of 254 nanometers. This wavelength is in the region of maximum germicidal effectiveness and is highly lethal to virus, bacteria and mold spores. "

[Eddie]

To pastuerize or sterilize the water would be good but I don't feel that either is that complex a problem. Sure you can use the waste heat from a stirling to pastuerize water or use the electricity to "zap" it with UV but what then firewood can do the first and a battery can do the latter. There must be something more to this because it really is too easy to just kill the bugs and besides the biological contaminants are usually in surface water but wells are often contaminated with heavy metals.

I'd say they must be distilling the water but that would require 2,560 watts continuous output for one hour to boil just one gallon of water starting at room temperature, so they must have some way to recapture most of that power. I think it must be distilled because distilled water is more useful in that it can remove toxic elements and poisons in addition to killing the many living organisms. I'd suggest looking for how they might reduce that power need. How much of that power can they get back when condensing the steam back into water and is that enough to make it worth the effort?

Enjoy the ride,
Ed

[Deviant]

Yes, I believe they said they were distilling the water. As for the comment on simply using firewood, you have oversimplified. Many areas have been deforested to the point that women have to walk 7 miles in order to gather the firewood, which is why I'm a huge advocate of solar cooking. I've read that nearly half of all meals worldwide are cooked with firewood.

And for the battery: Many destitute areas use disposable batteries - often. Quite expensive compared to rechargeables. A cheap and reliable energy source will make a big difference. But, just like there are huge social barriers to utilizing solar, simply providing them an engine doesn't mean they'll use it.

[Seeker]

Many of us, in looking at this issue of a lack of drinkable water for more than 1 billion people in the World, have expressed wonderment at the fact that this tragedy exists, despite the fact that it seems like simple solutions should be available.

I was surfing to find out more about what the core issues are, relating to World water shortages, and came across the points listed below. These were made by a Pakistani doctor. It's interesting that his 10th point is that there is a lack of affordable/dependable water treatment devices. Yet many people have been suggesting that fairly simple devices, or simply boiling water, should do the trick.

I've also noticed that the 3rd World Water forum will be in Kyoto (site of the Kyoto accord), in March of 2003. One of the hot issues in places where water scare is the ownership of water.Should water be 'owned' by the state or by the community ? Most of the common folk prefer the latter. Could Kamen's approach help steer things in this direction ?


" I would like to pin point some burning issues of Pakistan in particular and South Asia in general. These are: 1) Civic bodies supplying drinking water think that providing the water connection is all that their duty is. 2) Consumers take this tap water granted as clean water 3) Testing of drinking water quality is done in the water provider's laboratory, who cannot report against the parent organization 4) T is no 3rd party surveillance of drinking water quality 5) We do not have drinking water standards / guidelines in place 6) Community lacks the much needed awareness of the issue and is apathetic 7) Poor people, sick due to quality water loose their small resources in medical treatment and loose working hours 8) The people of this part of the world are suffering from malnutrition, added to this we suffer from helminthes in our gastro-intestinal systems, which further deprives us of the already scarce food 9) T is lack of affordable, independent complete water analysis facility, which could give the sensitive consumer a true picture of the quality of water he is drinking 10) We lack affordable/ dependable water treatment devices that could help us out of water quality 11) As consumer we think that water is an unlimited resource, which we need to change and save water wver we can, especially in this period of drought To top all this the fast approaching summers, call for a further attention by all of us, as it is ing to bring water related intestinal problem to the fore, topmost of which is acute watery diarrhea, which leads to dehydration, and is a major killer of the infants. Not only this diseases like Hepatitis, Malaria and Typhoid are also water-borne and are particularly rampant in the summers. All of us need to be aware ofthese facts and safe ourselves!!"

Seeker

[don c.]

I have to feel that the immediate value of supplying electricity and clean drinking water to third world nations will be simply in enabling enough of the population to survive long enough to sustain the agriculture-based economies. If 60,000 people are dying daily from the lack of potable water, even a small improvement would have major impacts.

The DEKA stirling, or any other technology on the immediate horizon, is not going to result in a thriving industrial/technological/information economy in a region which hasn't any of the infrastructure to support it.

However, just by supplying the resources that the western world takes for granted: electricity, refrigerated food, and clean water, maybe enough of the population base can survive to sustain the agricultural economy. Later, take the necessary steps in education and resource management to supply a single manufacturing service to the industrialized world. And then, another. And another..

But in the meantime, just survive.

[Seeker]

The best conclusion I can come to right now, is that when seen as an electricity producing/ water purifying -dual purpose device, then the Stirling has value in the 3rd world (assuming it can be made to be affordable).

The link below is for another water purifying device called aquastel, which uses an electrochemical process. There's an interesting chart about 2/3 of the way down the homepage, which shows a comparision of different water purifying technologies in their ability to remove/render harmless, different substances in water. It seems to me that simple 'boiling' should be sufficient for most purification in the 3rd world, since it scores highly in the chart in its ability to eliminate viruses and bacteria (with the exception of bacterial endospores..I remember that from my university Microbiology classes.lol). I would think that most of the substances which the chart shows boiling unable to remove, would not be a concern in 3rd world countries. However the inability to remove salt, which a Stirling distiller could do, may be valuable in situations where the main water supplies were ocean water.

http://www.aquastel.com/summary.shtml

Seeker

[Eddie]

Ok, after some digging at the WHO site the breakdown of the five top concerns (not necessarily causes) follows:
Diarroea - causing death and disability through dehydration.
Intestinal worms - malnutrition and other problems
Trachoma - causes blindness
Schistosomiasis - attacks internal organs such as the liver
Arsenic - Poisoning can be immediate and acute or chronic with differing symptoms.

The link is here.
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/Globassessment/Global1.htm#1.1

Enjoy the ride,
Ed