Other applications of Dynamic Stabilization?

[ftropea]

If Dynamic Stabilization, or DS for short, is the "core technology" for the Segway-HT (aka. Ginger), then what other applications can you imagine for this tech?

In the following PDF document from IBM, there are a couple of ideas:

quote:"What sort of new Segway-like devices might we see? One can easily imagine using the exter-nalized sense of balance found in the Segway in motorcycles, personal watercraft, gliders and other transportation systems. More is clearly on the way. In fact, at the Segway Web site, there are already models of the scooter pictured that are not yet offered for sale. There are a number of opportunities for adding social aspects to Segway, by leveraging communications and global positioning systems (GPS) to facilitate games or sharing of the devices by a community of users. Today's Segway HT is socially primitive, lacking even turn signals."



Adobe Acrobat: http://www-1.ibm.com/services/files/etr_segway.pdf

HTML Version: http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:84z998ZLHKwC:www.ibm.com/services/files/etr_segway.pdf+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea
----------------------------------
Ginger : Robotics :: PC : Computers

[ftropea]

I wonder what depth of snow the Segway-HT can handle. I'm going to assume that if it's deeper than the height off the platform off the ground, that you'll just be plowing right into it. Obviously there has to be some cutoff... I mean, if it's a foot of snow then you ain't going anywhere, right?

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea
----------------------------------
Ginger : Robotics :: PC : Computers

[Casey]

I really doubt that Segeway could do very well in snow deeper than 4 to 5 inches. It would need snowtread tires for that. As you point out, the platform would hit, and it would be similar to a car whose bumper engages a snow drift.

OTOH, most cars I have driven were not good for more than about a half a foot of snow either. I did own a '77 F250 4X4 that would go through sand of any depth, and snow or mud up to the point the frame was sitting on it. But that is a whole 'nuther story.

Frank

[Casey]

Frank, when I clicked on the pdf link in your opening post, it opened a browser and locked up my computer. I had to ctl/alt/del it 5 times to shut it down and unlock things.

[?][:0]

Frank

[Casey]

quote:Our apologies...


The document you requested does not exist on this server or cannot be served.

Please double check the URL or use the search function on this page to find what you are looking for.

If you know you have the correct URL but are encountering an error, please let our Webmaster know at http://www.ibm.com/contact/query. Thank you.

404 Not Found





I will try right clicking the pdf to see if I can download it for viewing. I do have Acrobat installed.

Frank

[ftropea]

Any luck doing that?

I recall you had a problem with this same file when it was posted on TIQ. I sometimes have to save files locally in order to open them. Don't know why that happens.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea
----------------------------------
Ginger : Robotics :: PC : Computers

[Casey]

Yes, it downloaded fine. But when it asked where to put it on the HD I found it was the one I had already saved.[^]

Frank

[n/a]

quote:I really doubt that Segeway could do very well in snow deeper than 4 to 5 inches. It would need snowtread tires for that. As you point out, the platform would hit, and it would be similar to a car whose bumper engages a snow drift.

Might it be possible to mount skids on the bottom of the Segway so that it would glide on the top of the snow?

Nice to be here folks. This is my first posting. Great job Frank, thanks for the effort. It will be nice to be able to discuss without being disrupted.:D

[Casey]

Lawrence, as you are no doubt aware, Segway requires that the tires continually reverse direction to maintain balance. Are you talking about snowskis in addition to the tires?

Frank

[n/a]

quote:Are you talking about snowskis in addition to the tires?

Yes ofcourse.

[Casey]

An interesting idea. But it seems to me the skis would take weight off the tires, rendering them less effective or useless. If the tires protruded through the skis in a manner that would only allow the skis to contact the snow as the tires sunk in it might help. But it still seems it would relieve the tires of much of their traction.

Frank

[n/a]

quote:But it still seems it would relieve the tires of much of their traction.

We might be seeing specially made tires for traversing deep snow maybe? With skis attached to the bottom of the Segway, dynamic stability would be less of a problem. The skis would hold the vehicle relatively stable. Might less traction be needed than with a Segway depending entirely on the wheels for traction and balance?

[yop]

How about DS in ships? Right now, ships stay upright by using ballast, heavy weight in the keel. That has to reduce the cargo capacity and increase drag.

The drawbacks of ballast must be even bigger for hydrofoils.

What about aircraft? For planes. For blimps.

How different would this be, since you're dealing with a fluid instead of wheels on the nice, steady ground?

[Casey]

yop, I'm going to stick my neck out slightly. I know ships use ballast. But I am also sure they already use gyroscopes for stability.

EDIT: Here is a little information I found on the subject.

quote:As you may have already known, large gyroscopes have been used for years to stabilize aircraft carriers and other large ocean ships during rough weather. A gyroscope’s angular acceleration tends to hold the axis in a fixed position with respect to the direction of spin. For example, if you tried to hold a spinning gyroscope by its axis (like a bicycle wheel by a spoke through its center) you would have a difficult time trying to tilt the wheel without feeling a push from the gyroscope in the opposite direction. This stabilizing force, formally known as the centripetal force, has been incorporated in a variety of different spacecraft designs since the 1970s. Unlike seafaring ships, space ship designs utilize centripetal force to create artificial gravity at the outer walls.

http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/astrobio/astrobio_detail.cfm?ID=238

[baantjer]

What about a table with 1 leg?

[n/a]

I have been dreaming about sitting at a table with one leg for years! At last we may get a dynamically stabelized one soon. What I cant figure out is what I am going to use it for.[?]

[Casey]

quote:What I cant figure out is what I am going to use it for.

An expensive elaborate way to give more room for your feet.

[yop]

quote:Originally posted by Casey

yop, I'm going to stick my neck out slightly. I know ships use ballast. But I am also sure they already use gyroscopes for stability.

EDIT: Here is a little information I found on the subject.

quote:As you may have already known, large gyroscopes have been used for years to stabilize aircraft carriers and other large ocean ships during rough weather. A gyroscope’s angular acceleration tends to hold the axis in a fixed position with respect to the direction of spin. For example, if you tried to hold a spinning gyroscope by its axis (like a bicycle wheel by a spoke through its center) you would have a difficult time trying to tilt the wheel without feeling a push from the gyroscope in the opposite direction. This stabilizing force, formally known as the centripetal force, has been incorporated in a variety of different spacecraft designs since the 1970s. Unlike seafaring ships, space ship designs utilize centripetal force to create artificial gravity at the outer walls.

http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/astrobio/astrobio_detail.cfm?ID=238


Cool. Didn't know.

But I would like to point out that Gyroscopic Stabilization is not the same thing as Dynamic Stabilization. Gyroscopic Stabilization is a spinning top staying upright in the palm of your hand. Dynamic Stabilization is you balancing a meter stick on the palm of your hand. Gyroscopic Stabilization is passive- you don't have to do anything or even pay attention. Dynamic Stabilization is active- you have to watch and feel the stick and move your hand to keep the stick from falling. As far as I know, Dynamic Stabilization has never been used in a transportation device before the Segway.

Another application for DS might be in buildings. (Hey, stop laughing. I'm serious.) They already use passive bearings to protect buildings from earthquakes. You can think of that kind of earthquake protection as being like constructing the building on rollers. When the earth shakes, the bearings isolate the building from the motion. The building stays still while the ground moves underneath it. Maybe an active DS system would work even better.

[Casey]

I did a quick google, and didn't find any previous transportation use of DS. But it seems to me there was some talk a few months on TIQ that it had been used before. I'll leave it up to anybody knowing of that use to speak up.

And yes, I know DS and gyroscopic action are not the same. But Segway does rely on electronic gyros as the sensing elements of the DS.

[Seeker]

There’s some pretty fascinating robotic and tech stuff on this web page :

http://www.internationalrobotics.com/iaapapres_a.html

Near the bottom is a blurb on the Segway.

In one part it says, “ Many operators also expressed strong interest for renting Segways to park visitors, simply painting pathways around the park for riders to follow in a safe and organized manner.”

I’m not sure whether someone’s brought up this idea of ‘painting a path which the Segway would follow.’ before. It sounds interesting. Any idea how it would work ? Also, would it be necessary to allow for deviations from the path ? (eg if someone walked in front of the Segway). Maybe the path would have a barrier around it, which would make this unnecessary.

Seeker

[Seeker]

http://www.extremetech.com/print_article/0,3428,a%253D19888,00.asp

This is a novel idea, ‘imprinting Segways’,similar to the way a mother goose imprints on her young, and then they follow her around :

In fact, the Segway is designed to tow carts--but the carts envisioned by the company are not simply dumb wagons. Instead, each cart will be a sort of mini-Segway that can intelligently follow the towing vehicle's path, so carts will never get hung up on sharp corners. You could even envision carts that aren't physically connected, but instead "imprint" on a "parent" Segway and follow it around like a gaggle of baby geese.

Seeker

[Casey]

Thanks seeker, it's always fun to look back at those articles. I would think the striping would simply be for guidance such as the lines painted for people to follow while waiting in line at theme parks. I have also seen them in parks for self conducted tours. Straying off would be possible, but if you broke rules by venturing off to an unauthorized area, they would confiscate your ride with no refund.

I get a kick out of picturing Segbabies following mama around, but that is where the herding, or Linkmobility comes in that we talked about on TIQ and GingerChat way last year.

[charmed]

quote:Originally posted by Seeker



There’s some pretty fascinating robotic and tech stuff on this web page :

http://www.internationalrobotics.com/iaapapres_a.html

Near the bottom is a blurb on the Segway.

In one part it says, “ Many operators also expressed strong interest for renting Segways to park visitors, simply painting pathways around the park for riders to follow in a safe and organized manner.”

I’m not sure whether someone’s brought up this idea of ‘painting a path which the Segway would follow.’ before. It sounds interesting. Any idea how it would work ? Also, would it be necessary to allow for deviations from the path ? (eg if someone walked in front of the Segway). Maybe the path would have a barrier around it, which would make this unnecessary.

Seeker


I would assume that optical mouse technology could be relatively cheaply employed to respond to paint on the ground (ie. shut down if the Segway leaves a certain colored path). It would make alot of sense for places like amusement parks.

[Casey]

quote:I would assume that optical mouse technology could be relatively cheaply employed to respond to paint on the ground (ie. shut down if the Segway leaves a certain colored path). It would make alot of sense for places like amusement parks.

Another possibility there would be to use a metallic powder in the paint, with a magnetic sensor onboard the Segway. Kind of a Segway bloodhound following the trail. But that brings back up the situation of getting off the trail to avoid bumping somebody else. I would think it could have a slight range, such as a 3 foot radius that would allow you to get three feet either side of the center line. If you exceeded that it could automatically shut Segway down until it was returned to the path.

[charmed]

Anything is possible on the programming side of things. Perhaps Segway's that stray from a special pathway would simply drop down to a lower top speed (say max 3 mph.), while on the path they could safely go considerably faster.