Unusual ways to charge a Segway

[clm]

A topic for amusement only. What is you craziest idea for getting that extra mile?

1. The Enviro-unfriendly Range Extender - Make a board that you place under your feet and on top of the mat. This board has a hole to hook up your red "Radio Flyer" wagon handle. Next place your 1000 watt Honda generator in the wagon and give it a yank. Run a bright orange extension cord from the generator over your head and into your Segway charge receptacle.

2. Now we know that in balance mode that a Segway does not complain about being plugged in. The question is, is an oversight of the engineers or is it really ok to charge a Segway while operating a Segway? Will this hurt anything, and will it work to give you extended range? Hmmm?

Any volunteers to try it? Me? no way! I'm not about to break my Segway for the risk of a silly stunt, but if you do let us know what happens.

Chris

P.S. Oh, and please post your tips for other seriously silly charging methods :-)

[wayne]

Chris,

I have a battery and an inverter on my Seg. Once I get on and the Seg is in balance mode I turn on the inverter. The charging lights show that it is charging but the Seg will only run about 2 MPH while gliding. Turn off the inverter and the Seg goes back to normal speed.
I use this system to charge my Seg when I'm out gliding and stop for a half hour or more.


Seg-On
www.kcaps.com

[BenjiUK]

quote:Originally posted by wayne
I have a battery and an inverter on my Seg. Once I get on and the Seg is in balance mode I turn on the inverter. The charging lights show that it is charging but the Seg will only run about 2 MPH while gliding. Turn off the inverter and the Seg goes back to normal speed.


Can we have a pic of this, I'm intrigued by the size and location of such a setup on your seg.

[opti6600]

Big treadmill.

I'd do this with mine, but it's a narrow treadmill. Maybe a p-Series for it!

[MagiMike]

A topic for amusement only.. OK I'll try this - wind generation - how about a propeller on a bennie hat and a wind turbine. The movment of the seg causes wind and then generates power to recharge with.

[wayne]

http://www.kcaps.com/images/battery_box.jpg


Seg-On
www.kcaps.com

[dexter]

Hire someone to drive a car alongside your Segway while you glide, charge while you glide from the car's alternator using a cable connected to the car's cigarette lighter. You would then have to find another method to light your cigarettes, though.

Dave C.
me: www.idexter.com
work: www.idealjacobs.com
play: www.nyline.org

[yessir]

Always ride downhill.

[clm]

All right - this one is real. I've wanted to let the "perp" tell his own story, but I can't resist this one :-) It relates very closely to yessir suggestion above.

Have you ever found yourself "downtown" and short of the joules necessary to make a ride all the way back home? Find yourself a multi-story parking garage. Take the elevator to the top floor, then glide down the exit ramp to the street. Take the elevator to the top floor and glide down the exit ramp to the street. Around you go until you have all the "bars" you need. No sweat!

Chris

[Lohja]

Wayne,

What kind of battery are you using. It appears to be very compact.

Visit my Segway Blog page at http://galsegway01.blogspot.com

[wayne]

Lohja,

It is just a cheap lawn mower battery.
Not the best for this set-up but since I really don't know a lot about batteries this is what I chose. It does what I want it to do. A better battery would give a longer charge time, so I'm told.


Seg-On

[SegwayBill]

CLM
Awhile ago there where some photos of an Army prototypes that had a trialer hitch ball mounted on the back of the foot pad. They where pulling a trail with pneumatic tires carrying two soldiers. It is too bad that it is limited to 2 MPH. I had though someone could tow a generator and be the first to cross the USA by Segway.

Bill

[KonaSegway]

Bill ... so 3000 miles at 2MPH ... hmmmmm :-)

Aloha,
Sam


http://www.konasegway.com

[st7860]

a lawnmower battery isnt meant to be cycled that many times. it might be better to use a lot of cellphone batteries wired up together

[SegwayBill]

Kona
Maybe Segway could change the firmware or run half the time on charge.

Bill

[Lohja]

quote:Originally posted by st7860

a lawnmower battery isnt meant to be cycled that many times. it might be better to use a lot of cellphone batteries wired up together


The lawn mower battery could be used only for emergencies. A few days ago I was gliding on an isolated Federal Park road and after six miles, my battery indicator was down to its last bar. I had about three more miles to go to get back to my car. I found a "short-cut" bicycle/walking path, through the woods, which was maybe only a half mile long to my car. If I had the lawnmower battery as an emergency backup for a quick charge, I would have continued on the road. By the way, I loaded the HT on my van and after I arrived home, it had more than half the bars remaining. It charged itself? Why? How? I don't know! Maybe it needed a rest. The temp was in the high 90's. The Federal Park road I was on was part of a Revolutionary Battlefield one-way, one-lane paved road (mostly through the woods). It's about 11-miles long with gentle hills and curves. Only three cars passed me that day. A perfect place to glide. There is even one shallow, cool stream to glide across near the site of George Washington's battlefield headquarters. I may try it again in a couple days and this time, I will try to do the complete loop. When I returned to my car at a place called Surrender Field (in Yorktown, VA) I glided around the local paths trying to fully discharge the batteries. I man who claimed to be a graduate of MIT took an interest in my HT. I offered him a demo ride and he was thrilled with it. My HT wouldn't start on the black key so I had to use the yellow key for the demo. That happens every now and then. I wish I knew more about what battery specifications I need to get a "three-mile-charge". Does anyone know?

Visit my Segway Blog page at http://galsegway01.blogspot.com

[GadgetmanKen]

For all you engineers out there, this one is for you.

Could you rig up one of those little bicycle generators that are attached to the wheels of a bicycle for head lights to charge up your spare batteries as you glide? Everyone wants more distance out of their HT's, why hasn't someone come up with a spare battery holder on their HT's so they could just swap out the run down batteries with the recharged ones? Or recharge the spare ones as you glide using the bike light generators? Could this be done?

As a previous post before this... the quick release battery screws would be really beneficial here.

Wayne, can you rig up some kind of spare battery holder for HT batteries? Or a mount connected to the gear boxes to mount the chargers to the wheels?

Does anyone actually have those bicycle charger headlights on their HT's for lights?

Does anyone actually have or carry spare HT batteries with them?

"Wouldn't it be cool, if?...is like Folgers in my cup"

[wayne]

GadgetmanKen,

For someone wanting to carry an extra set of batteries the simplest solution would be to use a BC Carrier, go to Wal-Mart or Home Depot and purchase a plastic box to mount to the carrier to carry the batteries.
I believe you have to have the charger that LLC sells to charge the batteries when they are not on your Seg. So the bicycle charger would not work.


Seg-On
www.kcaps.com

[GadgetmanKen]

Wayne is there enough room on the platform to stand or stack the HT batteries on end side to side say between your legs from the control shaft? I think that you would still have room for your legs and clear your knees wouldn't you? This is what I thought you would be good at. Designig a box or holder in the middle of the base for spare batteries. Since you're good at designing inside the box type stuff. :) Doesn't all that weight on one side tend to create a turning to the side problem?

I'm not completely convinced that its not possible to recharge your spare batteries this way. Look at the examples people have given us on how they get more entended juice out of their batteries by pushing while powered off and coasting down hill or going down parking garages ramps. All this is is through the motors windings, not through the rechargers in or out of the HT. I'm also not saying that maybe the generators may not have to have some kind of max. regulator on the power input either. This is a question for the electrical engineers who would know this answer for sure.

"Wouldn't it be cool, if?...is like Folgers in my cup"

[KonaSegway]

Here's my latest experiment :

http://www.konasegway.com/portablecharger.shtml

I used a 5 pound battery (7amp) connected to a DC/AC inverter but unfortunately it wasn't enough to run a 100 watt lightbulb .. it did run a 50 watt lightbulb for an hour.
Any techies out there have a battery recommendation ? I think the one I used was too small. But it did fit nicely in the segway's front bag.

Aloha,
Sam


http://www.konasegway.com

[st7860]

maybe try wiring up a couple of those 3000mah Radio Shack 7.2 Racing Battery NiMH packs - they are cheap. and they are already soldered togther. the advantage of those packs are that they are designed to take a FAST charge, and are designed to have all their power drained within 20 minutes, at least 300 cycles i think compared to far less than 100 with a car or lawnmower battery

[Lohja]

How about using one of those UPS units used for computers. It already has the batteries, an inverter and a 120 volt receptacle built in. They are priced at about $100 + or -. Would they be suitable for charging the HT batteries? They can keep a computer running for 15-minutes or more when there's a power outage. How many watts are used in charging the batteries? Who knows the specs?

Visit my Segway Blog page at http://galsegway01.blogspot.com

[SegwayBill]

kona
Car stereo stores have a sealed storage battery that looks like a big six pack. They might be expensive in HI. And a reminder to everyone, use only sealed non gasing batteries, Segways do fall over and sometimes batteries do explode. Wanye and I chatted about this months ago. It would be nice if Segway or someone could put some batteries on the bottom of the side bags.

Bill

[Lohja]

I'm making a little progress. I went to Segway.com and read their specs again. They say the two batteries take 4-6 hours to recharge and at 10-cents/KWH it would cost 10-cents. Coming through the back door with this information, I calculate the rate of charge is 200 volt-amperes/hour(that's 1KWH/5H=200W~200VA @ a PF=1). So, if a medium size UPS unit (like mine) has an output of 420 VA, it would be suitable for charging for at least two hours and give you 4 more miles at 10-miles per charge. These are simplified calculations; but it gives a possibilty to using a portable UPS sustem. I believe I saw some at OfficeMax for about $75. It's better than being stranded. Take a book along to read.

[KonaSegway]

I like that idea better .. just use a UPS unit. The battery I was using is an AGM sealed battery which is why I felt comfortable placing it in the front bag. A computer UPS may be too big and heavy to put in the front bag so it looks like the wayne side carrier is the way to go.

Aloha,
Sam


http://www.konasegway.com

[clm]

I found good information from Alan Travis. Read his post near the end of this old thread. He has very good data on the batteries:

http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=965

For reference your Segway HT battery packs are the equivalent of a 27 amp hour 12v lead acid battery.

Bottom line is you are going to need a *heavy* battery to make a meaningful extension to your range. At least 20lbs. This is about a 25 amp hour unit and will give you another 5 miles or so. You will lose about half you power auxillary power to heat given all the losses in the battery, inverter and the Segway charger unit.

Wayne, does this jive with your experience with your set up?

The little R/C packs aren't going to work. Not anywhere near enough juice to work.

As for your computer APC, they have somewhere around a 5 or 10 amp hour battery. You could use it ok I would think as it is exactly the same thing. The only drawback is that you are carrying about 10 lbs of the dead weight of the A/C charger with you for no benefit.

Chris

[Lohja]

quote:Originally posted by KonaSegway

I like that idea better .. just use a UPS unit. The battery I was using is an AGM sealed battery which is why I felt comfortable placing it in the front bag. A computer UPS may be too big and heavy to put in the front bag so it looks like the wayne side carrier is the way to go.

Aloha,
Sam
http://www.konasegway.com


I disconnected my 500 VA UPS from my computer to try it out as a portable recharger. I first connected it to a lamp with a 100 watt bulb. It worked fine for thirty minutes--then it shut down. I can make it relight the bulb to full brightness; but it automatically shuts-down after two to three minutes. It would work fine if I could by-pass the shut-down circuitry. But, I don't know enough about it to do that. Too bad, it would have been a good solution. I bet some RV place may have a gadget we could use. Maybe I look into it. What do the postal workers do?

Visit my Segway Blog page at http://galsegway01.blogspot.com

[Deviant]

I will be trying out my new xPower 300+ charger this week on a couple of longish trips. For about $100 it has a built in air pump as well, which I have used already for my HT.

As I wrote many times before, my readings show the HT consuming at a rate of 120 watts during initial charging.

[Lohja]

quote:Originally posted by Deviant

I will be trying out my new xPower 300+ charger this week on a couple of longish trips. For about $100 it has a built in air pump as well, which I have used already for my HT.

As I wrote many times before, my readings show the HT consuming at a rate of 120 watts during initial charging.


Have you tried the xPower 300+ as a recharger yet? Please tell us how it works. Have a nice glide.

Does anyone know how much a new set of batteries cost? I called Segway and was told they are $295 each and another $295 for the charger. That's $885 total. I guess I will not be ordering a spare set anytime soon--now if the stock market goes crazy--maybe?.

[Deviant]

OK. Today I made a long trip on my HT, and brought my xPower with me (on Wayne's side carrier). During really bad bumps, the unit did bang against my leg - not fun.

Earlier, Wayne mentioned that plugging a charger in while in balance mode causes a drastic loss in top speed. However, he estimated 4mph. I don't think it comes even close to going that fast while charging. I assumed that the speed limit was due to a full battery as well, but confirmed that a nearly dead HT battery will also speed limit you to uselessness while charging. So, that was a good lessoned learned.

The only way to charge is while the unit is stopped (balance or off). While this can be done while at rest at busy intersections, it takes quite a few seconds to regain forward mobility after turning the charger off.

Well, I totally ran down my HT, to the point of being forced off (many times!). I believe if I had a good diversion with me (like a novel), I could have re-charged it while waiting. Charging for just 5 minutes only got me maybe 100 yards before stopping again. And of course, I was travelling very slowly.

There may actually be a battery problem with my HT as well, since charging for 2 1/2 hours in a (working) wall socket did not give me enough for a return trip in which the outgoing leg still had one bar left. I thought for sure I would have made it back.

So, my recommendation is to carry the charger only when you know you'll be overextending your trip, and only if you plan that you'll have a rest stop long enough to do some good. Charging for 5 minutes just to be able to cross a busy intersection is no fun. Boy, did my walking today make Segway look bad. Too bad LLC chose to advertise such an unrealistic mileage.

[Deviant]

Lohja, although an external HT battery charger would be nice, you wouldn't need the separate Segway charger if you just used the HT's. Let the HT charge up one set, then swap them out for charging the second set. I do this with my lawnmower.

[KonaSegway]

Deviant,
Thanks for posting info on your xpower300 charger .. have you had a chance to see how long it will charge the segway for when parked before its internal battery dies ?

Aloha,
Sam


http://www.konasegway.com

[emanresu]

I've noticed a lot less range with the increased outside temperatures, Deviant, and that may be part of your problems...

[Lohja]

quote:Originally posted by emanresu

I've noticed a lot less range with the increased outside temperatures, Deviant, and that may be part of your problems...


On July 5, I rode an 11-mile (approx) loop through a Federal park. Hills were there; but not severe. It was 94-degrees; but lots of shade. I tried to keep my speed constant and not accelerate or go the max speed. I averaged 8-MPH with no stops along the way. At 10-miles my battery indicator registered zero bars. At 10.8-miles I was approaching my parked car and I started to get the dreaded shaft push-back. Within 3-feet of my car, I got the more dreaded shut-down noises; and I stepped off. After I got home, I noticed I still had two bars on my indicator. I traveled 0.1-miles and lost all bars. I returned home and got the push-back and the dreaded shut-down noises as I entered my driveway. So, with a conservative glide, I guess I'm limited to a 10-mile range in 90-degree temp. In cooler weather, I may go further. After loseing all bars, I had almost 1-mile remaining on my batteries. Hey, ten-miles isn't bad when you are having fun.

Visit my Segway Blog page at http://galsegway01.blogspot.com

[MagiMike]

quote:Originally posted by emanresu

I've noticed a lot less range with the increased outside temperatures, Deviant, and that may be part of your problems...


Oh My... This is not good news. I live in Houston where temperatures or going to be over 100 degrees for the next 2-3 months.
Are others seeing this as well?

Mike in Houston TX.

It stops on a dime,
turns on a nickel,
and costs a pretty penny.

[SegwayBill]

Lohja
You get more battery life in warm weather, the warmth increases the chemical reaction of the battery. For example when I use my walkman in the winter the battery life is almost half to what it is in the summer.
Gliding style really effects battery life smooth acceleration and slower speeds will give you better range. rest the machine after hard use and the batteries will recover.

Bill

[BerettaIndy]

hey was reading this and i got an idea, sence the segway has 2 batteries what if you could run in off of 1 of the batteries and then when its low just switch to the other and while using the second battery the momentum of the segway would charge the first battery by using the friction of the motors just like it re-charges when going down hills.

while talking in the chat about this i realized that it might not work but i thought it over and instead you could just pull out the tires and put a small generator between the motor and the tire and then you would be re-charging your batteries every where you go and you wouldnt have to worry about the range, but you would have to up date the software on it to hold the extra weight

[wayne]

The generator sounds good but you can't glide and charge at the same time. Your glide speed reduces to about 2 MPH when trying to charge and glide.

That would be the way to do it if LLC had made the Seg to charge when gliding.

Seg-On

[Deviant]

1) Yes, warmer allows more drain from a battery, but allows for less charge in.
2) The HT already has a generator mode for each motor to utilize regenerative breaking energy to recharge the battery. If you charge while going forward, that would require even more energy to go forward, eliminating any "gains." (no free lunch)