Seattle ban

[terryp]

(I lost the original thread.)

I just received another reply from the city employee who was trying to get further clarification from the inside:

Terry,

I guess I did not see this attached press release or it did not log in my memory. The Parks News Release comes from the Superintendent of Parks Office. It appears all motorized traffic is banned from the Burke Gilman.

I would contact Dewey Potter 684-7241 if you would like further clarification.

---

Here's the press release:

PARKS AND RECREATION CLARIFIES POLICY
ON SCOOTERS IN PARKS

In anticipation of warm weather and Seattleites taking to the parks, Seattle Parks and Recreation Superintendent Ken Bounds today announced the policy for the use of gas- and electric-powered scooters in parks.

“We understand powered scooters are very popular,” Bounds said. “Our recreational trails are intended for feet and human—powered wheels, and to keep users safe we are clarifying where scooters are and are not allowed.”

Gas- and electric-powered scooters are allowed:
On arterial streets, but NOT in striped bicycle lanes
On neighborhood streets where speed is limited to no more than 25 miles per hour
On park auto roadways inside parks, and on park boulevards that are not arterials (i.e., the road through Volunteer Park)

They are NOT allowed:

On sidewalks.

On multi-use trails, including recreation/transportation trails such as the Alki and Burke-Gilman Trails.

On pathways or sidewalks inside parks, such as the pathway around Seward Park, the Alki Beach path and the Green Lake Park pathway.

Violations can result in exclusion from a park for up to a year, and repeated violations can result in a fine and criminal prosecution.

---

If the city is stretching the definition of 'scooter' to include the Segway, and banning them from sidewalks as well as trails, then I guess we have no choice but to take to the streets now.

What's the next step folks?

It's getting harder, but I'm still...

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[BruceWright]

Wow, no bike lanes either.

WHAT IS THE RATIONALE for this?!!? What possible safety rationale bans them from bike lanes and makes them ride DEEPER into the street than a bike?

You guys are on your own on this one. Cause we're not allowed to help you from out of town now. (sigh)


-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[pt]

terry, that's not true, the law is clear. you need to call / email segway and talk to dewey.

cheers,
pt

======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[pt]

terry-

i'm sure they're not wording it properly. they most likely mean sidewalks -in- the park, since the parks dept doesn't set policy for sidewalk in front of your house for example.

also, we are not scooters. and if they're saying 'only human powered' they need to enforce that now, i saw 4-5 electric or power assisted bikes today on the burke.

we just need to educate them.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[ftropea]

quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

Wow, no bike lanes either.

WHAT IS THE RATIONALE for this?!!? What possible safety rationale bans them from bike lanes and makes them ride DEEPER into the street than a bike?

You guys are on your own on this one. Cause we're not allowed to help you from out of town now. (sigh)


-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream


Bruce,

I hear 'ya, but the letter from LLC really didn't say we shouldn't help each other out anymore. In fact, we should probably work harder - and maybe try to focus our energy more effectively..

From their letter, they did say:

"It is a far better use of your time and energies to provide moral support and counsel to local members of the Segway community."

So at least we can support each other with encouragement.. and maybe some good advice. In my opinion, you give some of the best advice around here so I'd hate to see you stop now.

Regards,

Frank A. Tropea

[/sc] Admin - "Keep your wheels on the ground!" - Contact Me (segwaychat@segwaychat.com)

[pt]

we are allowed in bike lanes, these folks need to be clear that this is INSIDE the park. that's THEIR domain.

bruce, you're "allowed" to do anything you want, segway simply made a framework to consider. if i ask for help or you ask your help, we'll both rally for each other.

the goal is, using good judgement. it doesn't make sense for you to care about our trails here, sidewalks--- maybe that's different, but we're not there yet.

cheers,
pt

quote:Originally posted by BruceWright

Wow, no bike lanes either.

WHAT IS THE RATIONALE for this?!!? What possible safety rationale bans them from bike lanes and makes them ride DEEPER into the street than a bike?

You guys are on your own on this one. Cause we're not allowed to help you from out of town now. (sigh)


-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream


======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[BruceWright]

Thanks Frank. I know pt knows I'll do anything they need to help.

I agree with Segway's position that the nationwide userbase of Segways shouldn't decend on local lawmakers.

I still wish there was something more I could do.

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[terryp]

The press release says "sidewalks", THEN it says "pathways or sidewalks inside parks", so they're trying to exclude them from ALL sidewalks.

Practicing Safe Segs in Seattle

[BruceWright]

Well, the superintendant of parks doesn't have the ability to change traffic law in the city at large.

That is, unless you have a really strange organization to Seattle city government!

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[pt]

terry-

it's simply a matter of the parks department not wording the notice properly. i'm really not worried about it. it's my opinion, someone doesn't like the segway and they're over extending their policy. the parks department does not regulate the sidewalks and cannot "ban" the ht from them by calling the ht a scooter and writing a memo.

this will all work out. i am pretty sure we have a tough fight for the burke, but sidewalks and streets are still safe for us, provided we are safe.

cheers,
pt



======================

segway ht journal:
http://www.bookofseg.com

other stuff:
http://www.flashenabled.com

[bicycledriver]

The prohibition of lightweight powered scooters from striped bike lanes demostrates the foolishness that bike lane stripes often generate. Does the scooter operator stay farther to the left, in the ordinary travel lane? How about the NEV driver?

The way traffic choreography works best is if all (tandem wheel at least) vehicle operators employ speed positioning between intersections and destination positioning at intersections. Slower operators travel farther to the right so that overtaking, if adequate pavement width is available, occurs on the left. Bike lane stripes complicate the issue. Prohibition of other drivers from the rightmost portion of the roadway and prohibition of cyclists from leftward positions does nothing to protect cyclists and just confuses the rules of the road. Everybody should just watch where they are going, reduce their speed as necessary when encountering slower traffic ahead, merge left to overtake or to turn left, and operate visibly and predictably.

-Steve Goodridge

[BruceWright]

Steve,

I wish there were a hundred of you. Can we clone you and put you in every traffic planning office in the country?

-Bruce Wright

Segway: Vehicle of Dream

[PoloAk]

Sounds like one of us needs to get hit in the street and then sue the city for making unsafe legislation.

Kelsey

[JohnM]

It could be worse.....
http://www.improbable.com/projects/park-rules/park-rules-top.html

[whistler]

A recent advertisement found in the April 2003 issue of "Man's Best Friend" magazine:

"You've heard of the Segway HT, the "electronic scooter" that everyone wishes they had, but is really not quite worth the price tag of $5,000?

Now you can order our brand new Dogway PP!!!

The revolutionary new personal transportation device has no electric motors or computers.
IT does have 2 wheels side by side similar to a Segway HT and is environmentally friendly, but the Dogway PP will only cost you $499.99, shipping included!

Get yours today!!! (canine engine not included)"



There is a picture of this thing... it does have 2 wheels side by side and a "T" handle for stability of the standing rider. But, it also has a beam that protrudes about 2 or 3 feet from the "T" handle shaft. This shaft connects to a special dog collar that can be fitted to a large sized dog. The trained dog then can pull the Dogway PP (Pooch Power) and the rider.
LOL!!! Looks like there might be a place for accessories here, such as a "doggy litter" scoop attachment for the front of your Dogway PP, and a "scooby snack" bag to hang from your handlebars. Hmmmmmmmmm ......... $$$$$$

It occurred to me that the SPCA might have objections to this.

However, it also occurred to me that this thing could be adapted for other use.
It could be pulled by a bicycle or attached to the belt of a jogger or the belt of a Segway HT rider... So... if you already have a Segway HT and need another for your wife/friend/dog/whatever... this might be just the thing. You could tow a rider behind you, maybe another behind him/her.

And if you and a friend want to travel the park trails, one could jog and tow the other, then switch places for the return trip, or would this be banned from the park too?

I might buy one of these and try it out. I might even figure out a way to add an electric drive motor to it 'cause I don't have a dog that large to pull me around. Hmmmmmmm... I do have two kids though......... wonder how child protection authority would view that? LMAO!