Anyone Been Challenged About Riding Seg

[Nancy Lanier]

Recently in Ft. Lauderdale I was challenged about riding my seg. A person (can't refer to her as lady) yelled at me that they (segway) was not legal to ride on the street in a housing area--there were no sidewalks.
I ignored her & continued on my way.
Then at a State Park in South Carolina I was told you could not ride unless you were handicapped & had the necessary plackard assigned to handicapped drivers.
Has anyone else had problems & how do you handle them?

Nancy

[stevepierce]

All the freakin' time. - Steve

[Sal]

... until you get hassled for gliding somewhere.

Recently in Ft. Lauderdale I was challenged about riding my seg. A person (can't refer to her as lady) yelled at me that they (segway) was not legal to ride on the street in a housing area--there were no sidewalks.
I ignored her & continued on my way.
Then at a State Park in South Carolina I was told you could not ride unless you were handicapped & had the necessary plackard assigned to handicapped drivers.
Has anyone else had problems & how do you handle them?

Nancy

Nancy, first off, welcome to SC! We're a great group of enthusiasts who share a keen love for the device. I hope you trawl through the forum (searching for old threads regarding topics for which you have questions).

Secondly, there are many ways to handle Segway-related situations. The key (and by no means am I the best of diplomats), is to be friendly and a good ambassador for the device.

I am not disabled, but if I were, I would be totally up front and forthright about my rights as a person with a disability to use this (or any applicable) device to get around.

Being that I am not disabled, I would become very familiar with laws in your local area, contact the local city council, police department, and ask.

If it is a private area, then the local rules apply. If they don't have rules regarding Segways, you may want to schedule a demonstration of the device to those in charge. That is, if you will be frequenting those areas.

I think the basic idea when you're the only one, or one of a few gliders, is to be friendly (even though you may want to throttle some disrespectful individuals), and share information.

-Sal

[RAG1247]

Recently in Ft. Lauderdale I was challenged about riding my seg. A person (can't refer to her as lady) yelled at me that they (segway) was not legal to ride on the street in a housing area--there were no sidewalks.
I ignored her & continued on my way.
Then at a State Park in South Carolina I was told you could not ride unless you were handicapped & had the necessary plackard assigned to handicapped drivers.
Has anyone else had problems & how do you handle them?

Nancy

surprised

where was the problem in ft lauderdale?????

[SegwayDan]

Go to these links which are the two sections of the Florida state statutes which pertain to Segway PT (referred to generically as EPAMD) use in the state:

Definitions (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/Sec003.HTM) EPAMD is definition #83 in the list. Note the last sentence in the definition. Also read definition #21 "Motor vehicle", and definition #75 "Vehicle".

Regulations (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0316/SEC2068.HTM&Title=-%3E2007-%3ECh0316-%3ESection%202068#0316.2068) These are basic regulations for EPAMD use in the state.

Print these out and have copies with you to show anyone other than "drive-by hecklers" that you are indeed legal. Private business owners have the right to exclude you from their property.

You have to play it by ear with police, as it's usually a matter of politely talking to them and showing them the statutes. The "safety" clause may yet be the clincher, as I was excluded once from a crowded public area with dense milling crowds. At other non-crowded times the police had no problem with me gliding there.

It's usually just a matter of education, because there are still a lot of people who've never seen one and somewhat logically think it's a motor vehicle--which it isn't--as established in the above statutes.

I know that Pinellas County administration has officially sanctioned Segway PT use in its county parks. I haven't tested other counties, but it may take some communication with the respective administrations to get them to review the state statutes. I haven't tried state parks, either. But I would imagine it would be a bit more difficult to get that level of permission if it didn't already exist, although I may give it a go some day once my wife and I get our second Seg and get down to some serious state-wide gliding trips.

[Nancy Lanier]

We were staying at a condo at Vacation Village, the person that did the yelling at me was another guest there.
Nobody with Vacation Village, not even the security people questioned me.
I just had not had anyone be quite so rude & was just curious if anyone else was having problems.

[Nancy Lanier]

Thanks for the information.
I have printed everything & will have it with me the next time I am in Florida.

Nancy

[Nancy Lanier]

Sal,
Thanks for the welcome--I have not seen any other segways & wondered if there were any groups in SC.

Nancy

[SegwayDan]

The test of their sincerity is whether they'll actually stop and confront you. If they're just "dive-by's" ignore them. If they stop to talk, remain calm and assured and whip out your "documentation" and try to educate them.

Give them a demo ride if you get past the antagonism and it turns into interest.

[scotty1024]

On my way back from Costco yesterday I heard my first sidewalk rocket go zipping by on the other side of the street from me. It was loud, it was fast, it was on the sidewalk, the person was standing vertically.

I've had five people come up and ask me what the gas milage is on my Segway (I've only had it almost three weeks).

I think some people have the Segway confused with those public menaces. The two people whom I've had challenge my right to be on the sidewalk seemed genuinely surprised by the "demo" they got. Rolling along matching their stride, stopping when they stop, turning in place to face them... I've found pretty well defuses the situation.

Of course if they realized I was legally blind they'd probably be running for cover which is precisely why I don't act blind... the only thing worse than being a lazy dork Segway operator is being a blind lazy dork Segway operator. :D

[DCTenor1]

What's a Sidewalk Rocket?

[quade]

I know the rules that apply to my Segway and where I ride. I keep a copy in my bag and on my iPhone.

Unless the person challenging me is an actual person in authority and has a badge to prove it or otherwise owns the property on which I ride, then I have no reason whatsoever to pay any attention to them at all.

Smile, wave, ignore.

[BarryT]

usually no problems here, just once in a while a challenge from small minded people. Another good tactic when it's just someone who is jealous and obviously not going to stop to talk to you, just ACT like they said "HI" and respond with "Oh Hi!" and wave. Think of this as your opportunity to act like Queen Elizabeth. People who will take the time to engage me always change attitude once they see how it works and see the statute printed out on a laminated card. Just think like Mr. Roarke from Fantasy Island....smiles everyone, smiles!

[Dennis Tracey]

While attending the Tooele City Arts Festival, I was grabbed from behind by the upper arm by a volunteer who informed me "It was awkward for me to tell kids on bicycles that they can't come in when you are riding around on your Segway".

I was stunned that someone would put his hand on me, and I stammered that I used the Segway under the ADA. He then stomped off not to be seen again.

I awoke and spent most of the night awake, livid with anger for I was actually assaulted. I found the director the next afternoon (I was doing volunteer work with BACA that morning).

I made sure he understood that the Festival was looking at criminal and civil charges if he wished it that way, and asked that he make sure all volunteers knew I had the right to use the Segway under the ADA. I also made it clear that only medical and police officers may touch me without my express permission, and the next time there would be a nasty public confrontation with the law to be called in. I was assured that an immediate announcement would be made to all volunteers and if he could identify the idiot that grabbed my arm, I would recieve an apology. I feel there are too many lawsuits in this society and accepted this solution.

I was called the next week by the director and he said no one stepped forward at the after action meeting. I was asked to return next year and assured that no further problems would occur.

[Mr_Laurenzano]

segway locally
it's your neighborhood.

[vertigo1]

My wife and I live and Glide in Columbia, MD. You get one of two responses here:
1. They are genuinely happy that someone is using an alternative to driving and are interested overall about the device and have no issues what-so-ever about it rolling alongside them.
OR
2. They are bitter, ignorant fools that say such things as "WALK B*TCH" or "You are as nuisance - much like these natts (it was fall at the time and natts were abundant)".
It used to be a split 40/60 about a year ago. Now I find that more and more people are accepting it (and also realizing I'm not going anywhere and tp get used to us). I'd say that thus far, it has been about 70/30 for the above responses. Things are looking up.

[scotty1024]

What's a Sidewalk Rocket?

I've encountered these two basic types being operated on the sidewalks here in Bellevue, WA.

The Pocket Bike: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wUWXWC3QEw

The Gas Skateboard: http://youtube.com/watch?v=P6JVsSVePHU

Both devices are very loud, very fast (pocket bike can do 60 mph) and profanity appears to be part of the control system (as the operator aptly demonstrates in the second video, skip it if you're not into that). You'll note the nice tight turning radius for the skate board: not! If you're asking where the brakes are, well, you aren't really cut out for one of these. [xx(]

[BillK]

I've encountered these two basic types being operated on the sidewalks here in Bellevue, WA.

The Pocket Bike:
The Gas Skateboard:


If you are really sharing the sidewalk with the pocket bike and the gas skateboard - then no WONDER you are getting negative comments - those look unsafe and were (in the fideo) being driven in an unsafe manner around pedestrians

You are getting what people want to tell those hoodlums but since they disappear so fast you are getting the negatives.
wow.
Bill

[DCTenor1]

My wife and I live and Glide in Columbia, MD. You get one of two responses here:
1. They are genuinely happy that someone is using an alternative to driving and are interested overall about the device and have no issues what-so-ever about it rolling alongside them.
OR
2. They are bitter, ignorant fools that say such things as "WALK B*TCH" or "You are as nuisance - much like these natts (it was fall at the time and natts were abundant)".
It used to be a split 40/60 about a year ago. Now I find that more and more people are accepting it (and also realizing I'm not going anywhere and tp get used to us). I'd say that thus far, it has been about 70/30 for the above responses. Things are looking up.

Really? In Columbia, MD 30% of the people you meet while gliding are so negative? I know that's a lot better than last year but it's still horrible. I could never glide around if one out of every three people were trying to make me feel bad. In DC the ratio is about 20:1, and that 1 still gets under my skin far more than he (it is almost always a he) ought to.

[bvelke]

Really? In Columbia, MD 30% of the people you meet while gliding are so negative? I know that's a lot better than last year but it's still horrible.

My wife and I have ridden in Columbia for a year and I can only think of one person who was nasty (a teenage showing off to a group). When I'm pleasant, respectful of pedestrians, etc., then I got nothing but positive comments. Well, there have been a handful of "that's cheating" comments but that's always with a smile.

But then, we're in Wilde Lake. I understand there's at least one nasty man who makes a sport of confronting Segways around Lake Elkhorn.

-Bob

[KSagal]

I don't think I've gotten more than maybe 6 negative comments in the last 5 years.

I do get the cheating comments from time to time, like from my neighbor after returning from the 4th of July fireworks about a mile away, but he was clearly saying it from jelousy, and made all the other neighbors know that. (He even swore he would have one by next year, but will not)

The problem for me is that the negative ones really "fry my nose" as a local mayor is known to say... Those comments stick with me and have a far greater impact that I want them to. I wish I could say that they don't bother me, and on most levels, they don't, but I often times feel they have a far greater impact than they should.

I believe it is often these few but memorable negative comments that others remember as well. That goes a long way toward other people's impressions of the segway, and to the social acceptance. Very few people want to go out of their way to be the brunt of the comments from the troglidites among us...

[MJEdelman]

Both pocket bikes and gas-powered skate boards are illegal on the roads and sidewalks in Oregon. You still see some idiots with them occaisionally, but fewer and fewer! (The reduction might be Darwinism in action!)

[Suzined]

Nancy,

First and foremost, welcome to SegwayChat! I'm from a very rural area with a huge influx of tourists bringing gobs of money every summer. I started gliding in November and by summer the locals were accustomed to me so the comments, mostly good, trailed off. Now, after two years, my Segways are accepted as part of the landscape...cougars, bears, Californians, tsunamis, volcanoes...the usual mix of good and bad. I've only had one obnoxious type that really "fried my nose" and that was when I was sweeping a public trail and my Segway was not in sight.

Tourists are always stopping me. "Where did you rent that?" When told it's my own, most of them are disappointed. A few want to rent it from me. "But how will I get home?", I ask. Then they look disappointed.

But there are a few unpleasant types. For them, be glad you aren't married to them and enjoy yourself just to make them really mad.

Welcome again, this is a great board and there are many very experienced members--don't be afraid to ask technical or non-technical questions, hints, half formed thoughts, whatever. I have always received prompt, courteous replies!

[Five-Flags]

... I wasn't driving the station wagon in the first video. You wouldn't have seen brake lights, you'd have heard thump-thump... thump-thump...


:D:D:D:D:D

[Dave Bittner]

Really? In Columbia, MD 30% of the people you meet while gliding are so negative? I know that's a lot better than last year but it's still horrible. I could never glide around if one out of every three people were trying to make me feel bad. In DC the ratio is about 20:1, and that 1 still gets under my skin far more than he (it is almost always a he) ought to.

An issue in Columbia MD is that there are "No Motorized Vehicles" signs all over the pathways, and people are ignorant about the MD EPMAD law. Segway Inc has done nothing to help here. PR is virtually nonexistent from them. Frustrating.

[DCTenor1]

An issue in Columbia MD is that there are "No Motorized Vehicles" signs all over the pathways, and people are ignorant about the MD EPMAD law. Segway Inc has done nothing to help here. PR is virtually nonexistent from them. Frustrating.

There are "No Motorized Vehicle" signs all over the paths in Virginia too, and unlike MD, the agency in charge of the paths here has prohibited Segways. They don't care that state law categorizes them as an EPMAD. I've never taken my Segway on a path -- just the sidewalks and bike lanes. I'd love to take it on the bike paths but I know people would yell at me a lot, and I can't take that.

[segsurfer]

Pocket bikes: if your on the street, it's a good way to kill yourself. If your on the sidewalk, it's a good way to kill sombody else.
Gas Powerboard: create un needed problems for an already hated sport, skateboarding. And frankly, they defeat the purpose of skateboarding,they cause it move from a peaceful thing to a loud and annoying thing.
-segsurfer

[Suzined]

"There are "No Motorized Vehicle" signs all over the paths in Virginia too, and unlike MD, the agency in charge of the paths here has prohibited Segways."

Wow! What agency? Is this for all of Virginia? Hark! I hear a trumpet sounding "Charge". Folks, this cannot stand. I really want to know which agency. Do they also prohibit electric wheel chairs?

[DCTenor1]

I'm just going based on what I've heard in the DC Seg email group. Perhaps WWHopper or someone else could clarify. I have been told that although the State of Virginia defines them as a pedestrian (EPMAD), local authorities are able to supercede that. I've been told that they're not allowed on the trails here and I can get a ticket, but I've never actually seen the specific law prohibiting them. I would love if anyone more knowledgeable than I can clarify.

[JohnM]

I'm just going based on what I've heard in the DC Seg email group. Perhaps WWHopper or someone else could clarify. I have been told that although the State of Virginia defines them as a pedestrian (EPMAD), local authorities are able to supercede that. I've been told that they're not allowed on the trails here and I can get a ticket, but I've never actually seen the specific law prohibiting them. I would love if anyone more knowledgeable than I can clarify.

Virginia state law (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+46.2-904)considers EPAMDs (not EPMAD) and bikes operated on sidewalks and paths to be pedestrians. Ride in the street and you become a vehicle. And they specifically say that EPAMDs are allowed on state paths.

The Arlington County code (http://www.arlingtonva.us/departments/CountyBoard/CountyCode/default.aspx)doesn't make the pedestrian/vehicle distinction and says that bikes are the only vehicles allowed on paths. No motors allowed. The county doesn't seem to accept the pedestrian/vehicle duality that the state recognizes for bikes, so I doubt if they'll accept it for EPAMDs.

[DCTenor1]

The Arlington County code (http://www.arlingtonva.us/departments/CountyBoard/CountyCode/default.aspx)doesn't make the pedestrian/vehicle distinction and says that bikes are the only vehicles allowed on paths. No motors allowed. The county don't seem to accept the pedestrian/vehicle duality that the state recognizes for bikes, so I doubt if they'll accept it for EPAMDs.

Well, that's it then. Gotta glide 7 miles worth of sidewalks because I can't use the 5 miles' worth of trail. And all the while, bikes are zooming through the trails at 30 mph. Yep, that makes sense.

Thanks for digging that up, John.

[SegwayDan]

Time for some affirmative action there boys! After all, this IS a democracy, isn't it?

A society gets the government it deserves!

[KSagal]

Well, that's it then. Gotta glide 7 miles worth of sidewalks because I can't use the 5 miles' worth of trail. And all the while, bikes are zooming through the trails at 30 mph. Yep, that makes sense.

Thanks for digging that up, John.


14.2-64.1 (b) of the county code defines Motorized vehicle as any vehicle powered by...

46.2 of the state code defines EPAMDs as to be treated as electric bikes with a max allowable speed of 15mph.

Some states specifically declare that EPAMDs are not vehicles, or exempt from vehicle rules...

My reading of the Virginia law is that it does not do this. It considers a bike a vehicle, and EPAMDs as electric bikes.

Looks like where electic bikes are no go, so goes the segways.

[JohnM]

14.2-64.1 (b) of the county code defines Motorized vehicle as any vehicle powered by...

46.2 of the state code defines EPAMDs as to be treated as electric bikes with a max allowable speed of 15mph.

Some states specifically declare that EPAMDs are not vehicles, or exempt from vehicle rules...

My reading of the Virginia law is that it does not do this. It considers a bike a vehicle, and EPAMDs as electric bikes.

Looks like where electic bikes are no go, so goes the segways.

And since electric bikes are not allowed on the Arlington county paths, so don't go the Segways.

[Roland]

Well, that's it then. Gotta glide 7 miles worth of sidewalks because I can't use the 5 miles' worth of trail. And all the while, bikes are zooming through the trails at 30 mph. Yep, that makes sense.

Thanks for digging that up, John.

Welcome to the club. Washington State is ok with Segways on bike trails, but the City of Seattle has forbidden them on bike trails and in parks within the city limits (where I live and work)...so, I glide 8.5 miles each way to work and back on poor quality sidewalks instead of about 5.5 miles on perfectly smooth and well maintained bike paths....:mad:

[Suzined]

Roland, does the prohibition apply to wheelchairs?

[mark1qhorsey]

Way to say it Dan,

There is no federal laws prohibiting Segs anywhere, and many states have no law saying anything negative or positive about Segs. It's mostly local yocolls who pass the prohibitions, and fence Segs in or out.

We as a community have to demand equal parity with bikes, which go a lot faster - and hence become a little dangerous for their riders and pedestrians than Segs. I know about the relative mass and momentum...

We are well served by community glid-freedom events, to broadcast your biggest sales pitch - the GLIDE for anyone, especially invite city council people! But train them a bit to minimize Bush-faces.

Time for some affirmative action there boys! After all, this IS a democracy, isn't it?

A society gets the government it deserves!

[Roland]

Roland, does the prohibition apply to wheelchairs?

Nope. Nor does it apply to Segways if you are disabled and use the segway for mobility reasons: if disabled, you are allowed on all bike trails and in all parks in Seattle. My wife has this "privilege", but, because I am able-bodied, when we go on bike trails within city limits or in city parks together I walk/jog while she rides.

Here are the 3 laws for Washington/Seattle:

Washington State Law from 2002 (which may be overridden by local juristictions like Seattle):
http://leg.wa.gov/pub/BillInfo/2001-02/Pdf/Bill%20Reports/Senate/6316.FBR.pdf

Washington State Patrol from 2003:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=46.61.710

City of Seattle (2004) which says we can't run on "public paths" or "bike lanes" unless we are handicapped (like my wife, Midgetina):
http://www.mrsc.org/ords/s42o121518.pdf

I keep a copy of all 3 laws in my front bag just in case I'm challenged by anyone relevant. Hopefully, we'll get the Seattle law fixed now that Segways seem to be catching on as commuter vehicles (100% of the Rolands I know commute on their i2 :-)

[JohnM]

There is no federal laws prohibiting Segs anywhere, and many states have no law saying anything negative or positive about Segs. It's mostly local yocolls who pass the prohibitions, and fence Segs in or out.

We as a community have to demand equal parity with bikes, which go a lot faster - and hence become a little dangerous for their riders and pedestrians than Segs. I know about the relative mass and momentum...

Parity with bikes, eh? So you want vehicular status in all 50 states. In some states, for instance here in NH, all vehicles including bikes are banned from sidewalks. Most cities ban bikes from sidewalks in congested downtown areas. Ever try to ride a bike inside a mall or WalMart? Do you really want to retract the permissive EPAMD legislation that has been enacted in 42 states and the DC, replacing it with legislation equating Segways with bicycles? I think not. Be careful what you demand.

[KSagal]

I have spent most of my life living in the north east. I have lived in 4 different states, (and a few other countries) in my life, and bikes on the sidewalks is something that I had never heard of till recently. I had always thought that bikes were in the street, and acting like other vehicles (stay to right, pass on the left).

Pedestrians were on the sidewalk (walking either direction) and when in the road because there is no sidewalk, walking against the flow of vehicles. (Stay to the left all the time, facing oncomming traffic)

While I have only had a seg for about the last 5 years, and I have been riding bikes for more than 45, often doing it for long distances or in races and rallies) it has not seemed to me that they share that much common landscape.

[cruiter]

Karl
We're fortunate down here in the redneck state. It doesn't look like a 'Model T', so it can't be a car :)
"SECTION 3.
Said title is further amended in said Code Section 40-1-1 by striking paragraph (33) and inserting in lieu thereof the following:
"(33) 'Motor vehicle' means every vehicle which is self-propelled other than an electric personal assistive mobility device (EPAMD)."


14.2-64.1 (b) of the county code defines Motorized vehicle as any vehicle powered by...

46.2 of the state code defines EPAMDs as to be treated as electric bikes with a max allowable speed of 15mph.

Some states specifically declare that EPAMDs are not vehicles, or exempt from vehicle rules...

My reading of the Virginia law is that it does not do this. It considers a bike a vehicle, and EPAMDs as electric bikes.

Looks like where electic bikes are no go, so goes the segways.

[JohnM]

One more comment on this statement,

There is no federal laws prohibiting Segs anywhere.........
Not entirely true.

Before you start protesting in the streets (or sidewalks or trails), become familiar with TEA-21 and SAFETEA, monster federal transportation funding laws. TEA-21 and SAFETEA funds are available to states for building bicycle and pedestian facilities. And like all federal money, there are strings attached and you have to play by the strict rules. The rules for bike/pedestrian paths have their definitions over who can use the funded facilities and quess what: EPAMDs aren't included. They actually were considered and the Senate nixed it. (3) Pedestrian.--The term `pedestrian' means any person traveling by foot and any mobility-impaired person using a wheelchair.
(4) Wheelchair.--The term `wheelchair' means a mobility aid, usable indoors, and designed for and used by individuals with mobility impairments, whether operated manually or motorized. So, unless you are mobility impaired, you can't use a Segway on a federaly funded path. As the federal law reads now, any state that would allow EPAMDs to use those paths would risk losing future SAFETEA money.

Can the laws be amended? Sure, and it has been for (tipping my BionX cap) electric bikes. The TEA-21 definition:Electric bicycle.--The term `electric bicycle' means any bicycle or tricycle with a low-powered electric motor weighing under 100 pounds, with a top motor-powered speed not in excess of 20 miles per hour. Ok, gliders, stop whinning and start writing your Congresspersons.

[Suzined]

In English Common Law, which includes the U.S., that which is not prohibited is allowed.

JohnM provided: "Virginia state law considers EPAMDs (not EPMAD) and bikes operated on sidewalks and paths to be pedestrians. Ride in the street and you become a vehicle. And they specifically say that EPAMDs are allowed on state paths."

Further, "The Arlington County code doesn't make the pedestrian/vehicle distinction and says that bikes are the only vehicles allowed on paths. No motors allowed. The county doesn't seem to accept the pedestrian/vehicle duality that the state recognizes for bikes, so I doubt if they'll accept it for EPAMDs."

The State law says the Segway is a pedestrian. Arlington County says bikes are the only vehicles allowed on the pathway. Arlington County does not say a Segway is a vehicle (that would contradict State law, which a County can't do). Why are we trying so hard to torture plain language into a prohibition?

Arlington County is free to find a Segway to be an inherently dangerous instrument of mass destruction and on that basis prohibit them. But they can't claim a Segway is a vehicle--the sovereign has spoken, they must bow and kneel like good little peasants.

In Germany, that which is not allowed is prohibited. Thank God we don't follow that dictatorial structure of government in this country. ...At least not since George III.

[MJEdelman]

Thanks for the clarification and reminder!

[JohnM]

In English Common Law, which includes the U.S., that which is not prohibited is allowed.

JohnM provided: "Virginia state law considers EPAMDs (not EPMAD) and bikes operated on sidewalks and paths to be pedestrians. Ride in the street and you become a vehicle. And they specifically say that EPAMDs are allowed on state paths."

Further, "The Arlington County code doesn't make the pedestrian/vehicle distinction and says that bikes are the only vehicles allowed on paths. No motors allowed. The county doesn't seem to accept the pedestrian/vehicle duality that the state recognizes for bikes, so I doubt if they'll accept it for EPAMDs."

The State law says the Segway is a pedestrian. Arlington County says bikes are the only vehicles allowed on the pathway. Arlington County does not say a Segway is a vehicle (that would contradict State law, which a County can't do). Why are we trying so hard to torture plain language into a prohibition?

Arlington County is free to find a Segway to be an inherently dangerous instrument of mass destruction and on that basis prohibit them. But they can't claim a Segway is a vehicle--the sovereign has spoken, they must bow and kneel like good little peasants.

In Germany, that which is not allowed is prohibited. Thank God we don't follow that dictatorial structure of government in this country. ...At least not since George III.
You didn't take the time to read either the Virgina state law or the Arlington county code, both of which I provided links. EPAMDs are both pedestrians and vehicles by state law. Arlington doesn't have to contradict the state. What is clear from reading the Arlington codes is that they don't want motors on their paths.

[Nancy Lanier]

It appears that we (segway gliders) are not understood by the local law enforcement agencies.
Bikes are not allowed on sidewalks in SC but--I see them everywhere I go, same goes for skateboards.
Only the law abiding citizens are concerned with where we can & can't go legally--the kids don't give a hoot!!
Another gripe I have is with the language used so freely by the younger generation. They seem to have a very limited vocabulary, most of their words seem to start with either an S or F!!!

I am going to take my SEG to a State Park this coming week & see what happens.

[Nancy Lanier]

Someone is trying to send me a message but I can't access

NANCY

[bentbiker]

Someone is trying to send me a message but I can't access

NANCY
Have you clicked on the link to "Private Messages" in the upper right hand corner of the window?

[jryan]

It appears that we (segway gliders) are not understood by the local law enforcement agencies.
Bikes are not allowed on sidewalks in SC but--I see them everywhere I go, same goes for skateboards.
Only the law abiding citizens are concerned with where we can & can't go legally--the kids don't give a hoot!!
Another gripe I have is with the language used so freely by the younger generation. They seem to have a very limited vocabulary, most of their words seem to start with either an S or F!!!

I am going to take my SEG to a State Park this coming week & see what happens.

Well given as I believe I would fall in your "younger generation" I must say that I do frequently say "Fish" and "Salad"! But seriously, such a blanket statement is unwarranted!

[jgbackes]

jryan,

I must beg to differ with you. When I was young, I don't think any girl I knew used the "F" word EVER. Now it's a filler akin to "like" from my kid's generation.

When college kids come into my Father's clothing store and shop I'm just appalled at the language they use. When something is "cool", they say "This is shi*". Perhaps your parents taught you better. Another one is "hel*a" Which in my day would have translated to "Heck of a cool".

It's also very possible this this is just a part of me getting old, as I'm sure my grandfather would be appalled at my speech as well.

[jryan]

jryan,

I must beg to differ with you. When I was young, I don't think any girl I knew used the "F" word EVER. Now it's a filler akin to "like" from my kid's generation.

When college kids come into my Father's clothing store and shop I'm just appalled at the language they use. When something is "cool", they say "This is shi*". Perhaps your parents taught you better. Another one is "hel*a" Which in my day would have translated to "Heck of a cool".

It's also very possible this this is just a part of me getting old, as I'm sure my grandfather would be appalled at my speech as well.

Oh I have no doubt the majority of my generation use words more often than other generations, no argue there. It is just the extent to which some people make it seem is unfathomable. I think, on an average day in the mall with friends, there would be 500 words said 10 of which were swear words. Maybe this is wrong, I think swearing is semi-wrong, but I also think people of an older generation tend to only hear the bad people say rather than listen to everything they are saying.

[Dave Bittner]

There are "No Motorized Vehicle" signs all over the paths in Virginia too, and unlike MD, the agency in charge of the paths here has prohibited Segways. They don't care that state law categorizes them as an EPMAD. I've never taken my Segway on a path -- just the sidewalks and bike lanes. I'd love to take it on the bike paths but I know people would yell at me a lot, and I can't take that.

The situation in Columbia is complicated by the fact that since there are so many connecting pathways all over the city, there are many places that lack sidewalks. No one has ever challenged me on a sidewalk, it was the pathways that were a problem. But there were some places that were only safe to get to via the pathways. My office, for example. And I got sick of the confrontations.

Again, it's frustrating that INC has done so little to educate the general public. They laid the foundation through all the legislation they had passed, but failed to follow through with a comprehensive educational program. Of course, the whole product launch didn't go the way they'd planned...

[SegSailor]

14.2-64.1 (b) of the county code defines Motorized vehicle as any vehicle powered by...

46.2 of the state code defines EPAMDs as to be treated as electric bikes with a max allowable speed of 15mph.

Some states specifically declare that EPAMDs are not vehicles, or exempt from vehicle rules...

My reading of the Virginia law is that it does not do this. It considers a bike a vehicle, and EPAMDs as electric bikes.

Looks like where electic bikes are no go, so goes the segways.

Gotta disagree with you here, Karl. Having just gotten my 'four figure' bill from my lawyer who on my behalf just pointed out to a local VA municipality that they indeed were incorrect in tossing me off the sidewalk and onto the asphalt because they claimed that my Seg was to be included in the 'electric bike' category, I'm newly and pretty well versed in the VA definitions. Painfully. I'm mean, it feels great to win, but it sure shot the heck out of the old beer fund!

The Code of Virginia does indeed make a distinct point of seperating EPAMD's and electric bicycles: § 46.2-100. Definitions. "Electric personal assistive mobility device" means a self-balancing two-nontandem-wheeled device that is designed to transport only one person and powered by an electric propulsion system that limits the device's maximum speed to fifteen miles per hour or less. For purposes of Chapter 8 of this title, an electric personal assistive mobility device shall be a vehicle when operated on a highway.

"Electric power-assisted bicycle" means a bicycle equipped with an electric motor that reduces the pedal effort required of the rider, but does not eliminate the rider's need to pedal. For the purposes of Chapter 8 of this title, an electric power-assisted bicycle shall be a vehicle when operated on a highway.

The two sections highlighted in green are the only parts of their definitions that by the Code are identical, and that only applies when we are riding in the road. And there are strict restrictions as to just WHEN you can ride on the road: An electric personal assistive mobility device may be operated on any highway with a maximum speed limit of twenty-five miles per hour or less. An electric personal assistive mobility device shall only operate on any highway authorized by this section if a sidewalk is not provided along such highway or if operation of the device on such sidewalk is prohibited pursuant to § 46.2-904.

In other words: Here in Virginia, keep those darn Segway up on the sidewalks when you have one next to the road (unless EPAMD's have been SPECIFICALLY prohibited from sidewalk gliding by local ordinances, but they have to be named as such)! YEA! One for our side. My (small) contribution to The Cause...

[KSagal]

Gotta disagree with you here, Karl. Having just gotten my 'four figure' bill from my lawyer who on my behalf just pointed out to a local VA municipality that they indeed were incorrect in tossing me off the sidewalk and onto the asphalt because they claimed that my Seg was to be included in the 'electric bike' category, I'm newly and pretty well versed in the VA definitions. Painfully. I'm mean, it feels great to win, but it sure shot the heck out of the old beer fund!

The Code of Virginia does indeed make a distinct point of seperating EPAMD's and electric bicycles: § 46.2-100. Definitions. "Electric personal assistive mobility device" means a self-balancing two-nontandem-wheeled device that is designed to transport only one person and powered by an electric propulsion system that limits the device's maximum speed to fifteen miles per hour or less. For purposes of Chapter 8 of this title, an electric personal assistive mobility device shall be a vehicle when operated on a highway.

"Electric power-assisted bicycle" means a bicycle equipped with an electric motor that reduces the pedal effort required of the rider, but does not eliminate the rider's need to pedal. For the purposes of Chapter 8 of this title, an electric power-assisted bicycle shall be a vehicle when operated on a highway.

The two sections highlighted in green are the only parts of their definitions that by the Code are identical, and that only applies when we are riding in the road. And there are strict restrictions as to just WHEN you can ride on the road: An electric personal assistive mobility device may be operated on any highway with a maximum speed limit of twenty-five miles per hour or less. An electric personal assistive mobility device shall only operate on any highway authorized by this section if a sidewalk is not provided along such highway or if operation of the device on such sidewalk is prohibited pursuant to § 46.2-904.

In other words: Here in Virginia, keep those darn Segway up on the sidewalks when you have one next to the road (unless EPAMD's have been SPECIFICALLY prohibited from sidewalk gliding by local ordinances, but they have to be named as such)! YEA! One for our side. My (small) contribution to The Cause...



I stand corrected.

I made the foolish mistake of using references that were offered. By being lazy and using that which was handed to me, I neglected to use simple logic and consider the source of the links that I used.

I should have known that I did not have the whole story.

I apologize for having been a tool for the disingenuous. This will teach me to do my own research, be complete and accurate, and not rely on weak or agenda driven sources. I feel very foolish. I opened my mouth and put both feet in.

Thank you for the correction.

[DCTenor1]

I don't follow.
Can I use my Seg on the multi-use trails? Bike lanes? Sidewalks? All of the above?

[JohnM]

I don't follow.
Can I use my Seg on the multi-use trails? Bike lanes? Sidewalks? All of the above?
All of the above.
And none of the above.
It all depends. There are federal, state, county and possibly city ordinences in play. Often confusing. Often seemingly contratictory.

I have provided links that will get you into the Virginia state statutes and the Arlington county codes. Read them thoroughly. There may be individual city laws as well. Root them out and read them thoroughly. The Virginia EPAMD statutes are scattered around the Motor Vehicle chapter, mostly tacked onto the bicycle laws. If you expect anyone to spoon feed you links to each section of the law, especially someone from out of state who has only a passing interest in the acceptance of a locally produced product, you are (dare I use the word in a Segway forum) lazy. Do the research, its all out there on line. It amazes me that you don't have it all bookmarked, printed and committed to memory.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.
- This Land is Your Land, Woody Guthrie

[DCTenor1]

If you expect anyone to spoon feed you links to each section of the law, especially someone from out of state who has only a passing interest in the acceptance of a locally produced product, you are (dare I use the word in a Segway forum) lazy. Do the research, its all out there on line. It amazes me that you don't have it all bookmarked, printed and committed to memory.

With all due respect, John, you are very quick to judge. Up until last month, I had lived in DC, where I do have the laws "bookmarked, printed and committed to memory." I just moved to Virginia last month, and I was simply asking to see if anyone knew what the laws were. I expected Virginia gliders to chime in. I thought that, just maybe, someone might have already "done the research." There is no need for me to do exhaustive research if someone else has already done it.

You, an out-of-stater "who has only a passing interest in the acceptance of a locally produced product," helpfully pointed me in the right direction. For that I sincerely thank you.

There is no need to insult me.

[Nancy Lanier]

Well given as I believe I would fall in your "younger generation" I must say that I do frequently say "Fish" and "Salad"! But seriously, such a blanket statement is unwarranted!

You know quite well what words I was referring to & I along with most of my generation (50 +) find them most offensive. My grandson who is 24 has also said he thought the men & ladies his age should know better than use offensive language out in public.
If you can't talk without saying shi* or motherfu* you should stay where only your friends who also talk that way are subjected to the filthy language.
Enough said.

[KSagal]

Oh I have no doubt the majority of my generation use words more often than other generations, no argue there. It is just the extent to which some people make it seem is unfathomable. I think, on an average day in the mall with friends, there would be 500 words said 10 of which were swear words. Maybe this is wrong, I think swearing is semi-wrong, but I also think people of an older generation tend to only hear the bad people say rather than listen to everything they are saying.


The civil disrespect and lack of common curtesy that is unavoidable in public settings is very much real, very much worse than ever before, and very much more common with younger people than older.

To make believe otherwize is disingenous.

[DCTenor1]

The civil disrespect and lack of common curtesy that is unavoidable in public settings is very much real, very much worse than ever before, and very much more common with younger people than older.

To make believe otherwize is disingenous.

I agree completely. I actually wrote a law review article arguing that the government should be more aggressive in targeting indecency on cable and satellite services. http://law.richmond.edu/jolt/v13i4/article17.pdf

But that is another (extremely incendiary) topic. ;)