Segway State Laws [Archive]

rrc1962

04-28-2008, 03:42 PM

Seginaway

04-28-2008, 04:27 PM

Thanks for the website. I first searched SegwayChat but didn't find anything but the Colorado thread.

I had used that website when I first bought my X2 in 2006, but forgot about it. I thought, rather than search for it, someone on SegwayChat would know its' location or it would be included on SegwayChat.

And, that someone was you. Thanks again.

bentbiker

04-28-2008, 05:11 PM

Here is a website that lists each state and their Segway laws....

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/segway_laws.html

Seems that in most states they are allowed on sidewalks and bike paths. That's good news.

Ross
Ross, thanks for the link. It is dangerous to accept such a legal-sounding site as being accurate. As an example, the synopsis of the CA law is overly inclusive. X-series models are not legal on sidewalks, and they are arguably not legal on bikepaths or roads.

I have awarded you rep points for having made us aware of the site. I get the impression that a lot of new members and infrequent visitors are perhaps unaware that "Thank You's" are best expressed by awarding reputation points to the poster by clicking on the scales at the lower left hand corner of a post. Note that your post will be anonymous unless you add you screen name to the comment field, and both comments and names are appreciated by most recipients.

Segwaiian

04-28-2008, 07:35 PM

quade

04-28-2008, 08:08 PM

X-series models are not legal on sidewalks, and they are arguably not legal on bikepaths or roads.

I respectfully disagree.

They quite nicely fit within the definition of Motorized Scooter.
Motorized Scooters: Definition (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21220_5.htm)
Motorized Scooters: Manufacturer Disclosure (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc407_5.htm)

As such, they can not be legally driven under the influence.
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Driving Under the Influence (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21221_5.htm)

Must have certain pieces of equipment to operate at night.
Operation of Motorized Scooters During Darkness: Equipment (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21223.htm)

Are restricted from most freeways.
Freeways and Expressways: Use Restrictions (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21960.htm)

Are actually promoted to provide traffic relief.
Motorized Scooters: Legislative Intent (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21220.htm)

Are subject to LOCAL regulations . . . so . . . check local laws.
Motorized Scooters: Local Regulations (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21225.htm)

Have a maximum speed limit of 15 mph.
Maximum Speed for Motorized Scooters (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22411.htm)

Have noise restrictions (that we won't have to worry about!)
Motorized Scooters: Maximum Noise Level (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21226.htm)

And have other certain operating restrictions.
Motorized Scooters: Operation Requirements (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21227.htm)
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Driving At Less Than Normal Speed of Traffic (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21228.htm)

May, in fact, operate in Class II bike lanes along roads.
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Bicycle Lanes (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21229.htm)

May, in fact, operate on bicycle paths, trails, or bikeways subject to local regulation.
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Local Regulation of Bicycle Paths, Trails, or Bikeways (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21230.htm)

And are subject to other specific prohibitions (can not operate without a valid driver's license and helmet for instance)
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Prohibitions (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21235.htm)

I can not in any way shape or form see how this also doesn't apply to an i2 other than it hasn't been tested in a court of law.

I would LOVE to get that ticket.

Barring that, I'd be interested in segwaypilot's opinion of my analysis.

terryp

04-28-2008, 08:49 PM

Here is a website that lists each state and their Segway laws....

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/segway_laws.html

Seems that in most states they are allowed on sidewalks and bike paths. That's good news.

Ross
There's an error in the Washington State entry. Segs are allowed on roads with speed limits of 25MPH or less. There may be other errors on this site, so it's best to check your own state's laws yourself.

bentbiker

04-28-2008, 09:10 PM

Segwaiian

04-28-2008, 09:10 PM

There's an error in the Washington State entry. Segs are allowed on roads with speed limits of 25MPH or less. There may be other errors on this site, so it's best to check your own state's laws yourself.

I checked segway.com. When you click on the Washington State link, the result is a Page Not Found message. Oops.

For Hawaii, at least, segway.com links to our EPAMD Law.

Aloha,
Roger

quade

04-28-2008, 09:34 PM

I couldn't get to the electric scooter definition from your link, but unless the definition has changed, I addressed in detail why they don't fit:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/showpost.php?p=147001&postcount=99

407.5. (a) A "motorized scooter" is any two-wheeled device that has handlebars, has a floorboard that is designed to be stood upon when riding, and is powered by an electric motor. This device may also have a driver seat that does not interfere with the ability of the rider to stand and ride and may also be designed to be powered by human propulsion.

Emphasis mine.

Now, what's interesting to note here is that vc407.5 is actually talking about the requirements of manufacturers to notify buyers that they might not be covered by insurance. EPAMDs are excluded from that requirement in the next sentence.

segwaypilot

04-28-2008, 10:08 PM

I respectfully disagree.

They quite nicely fit within the definition of Motorized Scooter.
Motorized Scooters: Definition (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21220_5.htm)
Motorized Scooters: Manufacturer Disclosure (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d01/vc407_5.htm)

As such, they can not be legally driven under the influence.
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Driving Under the Influence (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21221_5.htm)

Must have certain pieces of equipment to operate at night.
Operation of Motorized Scooters During Darkness: Equipment (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21223.htm)

Are restricted from most freeways.
Freeways and Expressways: Use Restrictions (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21960.htm)

Are actually promoted to provide traffic relief.
Motorized Scooters: Legislative Intent (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21220.htm)

Are subject to LOCAL regulations . . . so . . . check local laws.
Motorized Scooters: Local Regulations (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21225.htm)

Have a maximum speed limit of 15 mph.
Maximum Speed for Motorized Scooters (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22411.htm)

Have noise restrictions (that we won't have to worry about!)
Motorized Scooters: Maximum Noise Level (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21226.htm)

And have other certain operating restrictions.
Motorized Scooters: Operation Requirements (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21227.htm)
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Driving At Less Than Normal Speed of Traffic (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21228.htm)

May, in fact, operate in Class II bike lanes along roads.
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Bicycle Lanes (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21229.htm)

May, in fact, operate on bicycle paths, trails, or bikeways subject to local regulation.
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Local Regulation of Bicycle Paths, Trails, or Bikeways (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21230.htm)

And are subject to other specific prohibitions (can not operate without a valid driver's license and helmet for instance)
Operation of Motorized Scooters: Prohibitions (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21235.htm)

I can not in any way shape or form see how this also doesn't apply to an i2 other than it hasn't been tested in a court of law.

I would LOVE to get that ticket.

Barring that, I'd be interested in segwaypilot's opinion of my analysis.

Ya I'm with you !!!!!Proud X2 owner :cool

bentbiker

04-28-2008, 11:13 PM

Emphasis mine.

Now, what's interesting to note here is that vc407.5 is actually talking about the requirements of manufacturers to notify buyers that they might not be covered by insurance. EPAMDs are excluded from that requirement in the next sentence.

Forget about insurance. How does the X2 comply with the following requirements:
21235. The operator of a motorized scooter shall not do any of the following:(a) Operate a motorized scooter unless it is equipped with a brake that will enable the operator to make a braked wheel skid on dry, level, clean pavement.
21227 (a) A motorized scooter shall comply with one of the following:(1) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied.
(2) Operate in a manner so that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.

And don't forget:
21235. The operator of a motorized scooter shall not do any of the following:
(c) Operate a motorized scooter without wearing a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet that meets the standards described in Section 21212.

rrc1962

04-28-2008, 11:24 PM

I have awarded you rep points for having made us aware of the site.

Thanks John. I'm kind of going on the assumtion that the x2 is not legal on sidewalks, mostly because Segway themselves do not support it's use there. I also agree that the state rules listed are very general. The list also does not cover individual town ordinances which could override state laws...It's a good starting point though. :)

quade

04-29-2008, 12:44 AM

Forget about insurance. How does the X2 comply with the following requirements:
21235. The operator of a motorized scooter shall not do any of the following:(a) Operate a motorized scooter unless it is equipped with a brake that will enable the operator to make a braked wheel skid on dry, level, clean pavement.
21227 (a) A motorized scooter shall comply with one of the following:(1) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied.
(2) Operate in a manner so that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.

And don't forget:
21235. The operator of a motorized scooter shall not do any of the following:
(c) Operate a motorized scooter without wearing a properly fitted and fastened bicycle helmet that meets the standards described in Section 21212.

I'm nearly 100% certain you could logically argue that since the brake is the motor both vc21235 and vc21227 are covered by nature of the design.

As for 21235, wear a helmet!

bentbiker

04-29-2008, 01:01 AM

I'm nearly 100% certain you could logically argue that since the brake is the motor both vc21235 and vc21227 are covered by nature of the design.I am precisely 100% certain you can argue the point, but that didn't work so well in Holland as you will remember -- it was the exact same legal issue.

quade

04-29-2008, 01:05 AM

I am precisely 100% certain you can argue the point, but that didn't work so well in Holland as you will remember -- it was the exact same legal issue.

I don't live in Holland and their laws have no precedent here. :)

The full answer lays with a test case which is why I'd actually enjoy getting the ticket.

Segwaiian

04-29-2008, 01:42 AM

21227 (a) A motorized scooter shall comply with one of the following:(1) Operate in a manner so that the electric motor is disengaged or ceases to function when the brakes are applied.
(2) Operate in a manner so that the motor is engaged through a switch or mechanism that, when released, will cause the electric motor to disengage or cease to function.

[/INDENT]

I'm nearly 100% certain you could logically argue that since the brake is the motor both vc21235 and vc21227 are covered by nature of the design.

I don't live in Holland and their laws have no precedent here. :)

The full answer lays with a test case which is why I'd actually enjoy getting the ticket.

Quade, if you're serious about this, you would want a judge who somewhat liberally interprets the spirit of the law, rather than applying the letter of the law strictly. Clearly, the letter of the law does not make any allowance for a specific design.

Correct me, please, since I'm not mechanically inclined, but it seems to me that if an x2's motor disengages or ceases to function when its glider starts to brake, there's going to be trouble. :eek:

Also, if you're actively going to challenge the law as a test case, rather than because of an incidental ticket, it's probably wise to bounce this off someone at Inc., in advance. You wouldn't want Inc. to submit a brief, if requested by the involved jurisdiction, that does not support your legal theory.

BTW, I didn't include vc21235 because I'm sure under the right conditions you could get a Segway's tires to skid during braking, although maybe not so easily with the lower pressure knobby x2 tires. But, what would the sensors do to the machine during a skid? Just curious.

Aloha,
Roger

quade

04-29-2008, 03:08 AM

Also, if you're actively going to challenge the law as a test case, rather than because of an incidental ticket, it's probably wise to bounce this off someone at Inc., in advance.

I have no intention of forcing the issue until some law enforcement officer does. That said, I think I'm ready. As for Segway Inc., I'm not sure they deserve (or would want) anything more than a cursory phone call once a ticket has been written. After all, THEY certainly haven't pushed the issue and they'd have far more to lose than whatever piddly fine I might receive.

I believe I have done the proper research and I ride the Segway as both an EPAMD and motorized scooter as I see fit depending on which I think is safest. I believe I have correctly interpreted both the letter and spirit of the current California state laws and I'm not afraid of traffic court. It's not like they're going to toss me in jail for riding a Segway!

Artisan

04-29-2008, 04:23 PM

Please don't ask me where I found it because I have huge senior moments but I was at one time cross referencing different vehicle laws here in AZ .I had an ATV (Grizzly) which had different road rules than a UTV (Rhino). An electric bike (EGO Cycle) which could be road used but licenced while a electric scooter could not be used on a road or sidewalk. Then the difference between an electric scooter that is banned and mobility electric scooters that can be used on sidewalks. Anyway this is where the Segway comes under a different heading than an "electric Scooter". In Phoenix AZ it has to do with wheel placement. If one wheel is placed in front of the other and has an electric motor then it is not allowed to be riden on public roads or sidewalks onless it can reach a certain speed and has a certain tire size. Then it is street only and needs to be licensed (electic bikes,mopeds,etc). If however at least two wheels are side by side and the top speed is less then 15mph (if I remember correctly) then it is considered an assisted mobility device and can be used on sidewalks but not streets. I wonder where electric skateboards fit in? Anyway I wanted the X2 rather than the i2 because of my terrain but my dealer told me that there was some muttering going on in the Legislature about the X2 using sidewalks as they "look" a different animal than the i2. And as I wanted to shop the outdoor malls this summer (who builds outdoor mega malls were temps get up to 120 degrees anyway? And only two entrances are one at each end? Idiots) I opted for an i2.

bentbiker

04-29-2008, 04:41 PM

That said, I think I'm ready.
Does that mean you now have an X2? Remember, the question is whether the X2 can be operated as an electric scooter under the current law. As an EPAMD, the i2 does not have to worry about qualification as an electric scooter.

Seginaway

04-29-2008, 05:18 PM

Does that mean you now have an X2? Remember, the question is whether the X2 can be operated as an electric scooter under the current law. As an EPAMD, the i2 does not have to worry about qualification as an electric scooter.

In my commonwealth, the X2 qualifies as an EPAMD and is specifically excluded, by statute, from the definition of "motor vehicle". Each jurisdiction is different, which is why it's good to do some research before one visits another jurisdiction or makes a purchase.

quade

04-29-2008, 06:53 PM

Does that mean you now have an X2? Remember, the question is whether the X2 can be operated as an electric scooter under the current law. As an EPAMD, the i2 does not have to worry about qualification as an electric scooter.

It means that I ride my i2 while wearing a helmet and carrying a drivers license as both a motorized scooter and an EPAMD interchangeably.

I have no doubt in my mind that an x2 can be operated as a motorized scooter, but ONLY as a motorized scooter.

amturnip

04-30-2008, 11:50 PM

Here is a website that lists each state and their Segway laws....

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/segway_laws.html

Seems that in most states they are allowed on sidewalks and bike paths. That's good news.

Ross

ghsa.org has misinformation on one "state" that I know something about. The aim to boil everything down to checkboxes is noble, but the execution leaves something to be desired. Segway.com, on the other hand, links straight to the states' own legislative pages... boring, but instructive!

Segwaiian

05-01-2008, 05:40 AM

Another place you can find information about state laws pertaining to Segway use is at segway.com. Go to Support on the toolbar and Choose Regulatory Information from the pulldown menu. This will take you to a page where Inc. has placed links to the specific EPAMD law for each state, as available.

I checked segway.com. When you click on the Washington State link, the result is a Page Not Found message. Oops.

For Hawaii, at least, segway.com links to our EPAMD Law.

Just to point out that segway.com might not have your individual state's EPAMD law. :rolleyes:

Aloha,
Roger