Just started shopping

[rrc1962]

Hi All...

I am a photographer on the eastern shore, delaware and have decided to buy two Segways for me and my wife. We shoot photos at all sorts of events such as car shows, horse shows and dog shows. We also shoot a lot of photos at the beach while at the same time handing out business cards. I'm thinking the Segway will allow us to cover more ground with far less fatigue.

That's the justification for spending this kind of money on a scooter. :) On the other side, every since I first rode a Segway back in 2001 or so I've wanted one. I lived not far from the factory in NH and got to demo one of the very early models when Dean Kaman was showing them off at a local town festival.

My dilemma is this. I've decided that the i2 would be the best for my needs. I don't need off road capability and it seems that the i2 would handle the occasional gravel path or short run across the grass. There are some used models surfacing. i167, i170 and i180 mostly. Are these good units. I'm afraid of buying a used on and getting bad batteries. $2500 for a used machine with bad batteries would not be far from a new machine once the batteries are replaced. The local dealer has 2 used x2's for $4600 and $4800, both with hard bags. They were both demo units.

I'm just thinking out loud. Any advice you can throw my way would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...Ross

[SegwayDan]

x2s won't fit through doorways. If you're photographing events you're bound to want to go into and out of buildings, to say nothing of elevators. No go for x2s.

Get off the fence and buy new i2s. Cough up the cash. I can't believe how many people deny themselves the sheer utility and fun of gliding because of anal "frugality." It's only money, and what you get with the Segway is so worth it. Within its scope it's factually life-changing. We got rid of our second car and have no regrets--just a lot fewer transportation-related costs. And gliding is just plain fun!

For the beach, though the i2 will plow into soft sand, you can walk them under power to the harder sand near the water. They're good on hard wet sand.

Here's a scrap of math: $11,000 / $50/tank of gas = 220 tankfulls / 52wks/yr = 4.23 years. Now that literally goes up in smoke. But there're all the other expenses of insurance, taxes, tolls, parking fees, maintenance, tires, etc. with a car--which we replaced with one Segway PT. Food for thought, I'd say.

Can't beat the new batteries for range and power flow. Much better than the old ones. Buying used machines is a gamble. New machines will give you the full warranty. Good used i2s probably aren't much less than new ones.

The warranty is very worth it. I bought a new i2 which had a faulty gasket which let rain water in and caused some apparently serious damage, as the factory gave me a whole new machine, no charge. Not even a shipping charge.

Leansteer on the new machines is well worth it, especially if you're shooting while mounted. It doesn't take much to get the hang of steering with your knees while both hands are busy with the camera. Can't do that with an older machine without leansteer.

I'm undecided if the hard cases are worth it. They're small, don't hold much, and make it tricky to get through doorways. And they make it harder to make high-speed turns, as they limit your side leans. Probably best to carry your gear in a backpack.

[wwhopper]

As well as at the track all the time. I know they would be great for getting around the paddocks at the horse shows too.

The i2 is the best all around use machine. Though the x2 is really great too, I would suggest you give both a try.

Segway of Annapolis, offers customers the chance to rent a machine to try it out before you buy it, and will credit part of that rental towards the purchase price. That might be a good way for you to try out the machine to see if it works for you.

If you are doing photo work, for sure think about getting the side bags, it will make your machine wider, but you can carry a lot more stuff.

[ru12cb4]

x2s won't fit through doorways. If you're photographing events you're bound to want to go into and out of buildings, to say nothing of elevators. No go for x2s.

Get off the fence and buy new i2s. Cough up the cash. I can't believe how many people deny themselves the sheer utility and fun of gliding because of anal "frugality." It's only money, and what you get with the Segway is so worth it. Within its scope it's factually life-changing. We got rid of our second car and have no regrets--just a lot fewer transportation-related costs. And gliding is just plain fun!

Can't beat the new batteries for range and power flow. Much better than the old ones. Buying used machines is a gamble. New machines will give you the full warranty. Good used i2s probably aren't much less than new ones.

The warranty is very worth it. I bought a new i2 which had a faulty gasket which let rain water in and caused some apparently serious damage, as the factory gave me a whole new machine, no charge. Not even a shipping charge.

Leansteer on the new machines is well worth it, especially if you're shooting while mounted. It doesn't take much to get the hang of steering with your knees while both hands are busy with the camera. Can't do that with an older machine without leansteer.

I'm undecided if the hard cases are worth it. They're small, don't hold much, and make it tricky to get through doorways. And they make it harder to make high-speed turns, as they limit your side leans. Probably best to carry your gear in a backpack.

Hey SewayDan I have two X2's and your right about doors. But I use them mainly outdoors. I had others but too many spills on wet and damp terrain. When I was 71 I took a real good face plant which made me decide that I need something with more traction. That's history.

One one X2 the factory replaced both batteries in Aug; I stored them over the winter in dry, heated, clean area and when to charge and strat up and Nada. Only one read lite come on and after two days I got Zap on the Info Key. What do you think? I sent two EM to Segway and have not received any response. What has been your experience? Any suggeston on how to get a response?

Retired College IT Prof

[SegwayDan]

Dave Sinclair and Rich Nutile are two good guys in Tech support. Get the receptionist and ask for them by name.

[SegwayDan]

You know, Will, I bought the hard cases and had them on my machine for months. They're decent quality, but because of their size they're just not that practical.

As far as holding camera equipment, they're just not going to be efficient enough. Maybe custom-cutting foam to fill each with holes for lenses would work. But fussing with keys and those covers flopping open all while you're still mounted and balancing with your hands off the LSF is bound to be awkward and noisy (you have to be quiet and unobtrusive while shooting at many types of events).

I think it'd be better to rely on a backpack which could be loaded with equipment much more efficiently. A case-less i2 would be far more maneuverable in a crowd to step off, get the pack off your back, swap out gear, and then get back on.

[wwhopper]

You know, Will, I bought the hard cases and had them on my machine for months. They're decent quality, but because of their size they're just not that practical.

That they are less than ideal. You do have to line them, as they are nothing but plastic boxes without anything inside to hold stuff so things bounce around. And they do end up making the i2 wide like an x2, and an x2 even wider than it is.

But on the good side, is they do hold stuff, and combined with the handlebar bag you will have plenty of carrying power. And they have the brackets to attach them to the machine so they hold on, they have lids so they keep the weather out, and they are locable and removable so you can use them like little suitcases.

All the pro photographers I know, carry a big bulky duffle with all their stuff, as well as tri-pod bags, so the givi side bags may not be an answer, but if nothing else the lower cargo frames and cargo plates should be part of the purchase, so they can at least have a flat surface to lash stuff to.

And the nice thing with the lower cargo frames is they attach to both gen one and gen two machines, something that Inc. does not tell people.

[rrc1962]

Thanks guys...we are in the process of selling a vehicle actually, unfortunately not the one that we should be selling. We are selling a Harley Davidson. We travel to shows in a 40 foot diesel RV and tow a full size Chevy PU. Unfortunately, both are a necessity. We live in the country, so commuting on a Segway is not practical, so these machines would be used once we arrived on location. I wish we could incorporate them more into daily life.

The RV may actually become more obsolete in the future. Because of the very high cost of diesel and the poor mileage, we are considering traveling to shows with Segways to shoot photos, hand out business cards and take orders rather than printing on-site. We do specialty printing on over 200 products as well as paper prints, but to do that on-site, we need the RV with truck in tow. That business model worked when fuel was not so expensive. Looks like Segways and a tent is the way to go now. :)

I do agree with your thoughts on buying new and will most likely go that route. There is just too much that can go wrong with a used machine that could turn a decent deal bad. I have also noticed, as you stated, that a used i2 or x2 is not much less than a new model.

[rrc1962]

Just curious guys....How may miles are you getting on a x2 and i2? As I mentioned, we are not in the city. If we were to take Segways to dinner or to do some light shopping it would be a 14 mile round trip. Would that be risking an "out of gas" episode on the ride home? Thanks

[wwhopper]

And you have two dealers in the area that can help you.

Segway of DelMarVa down at the beach and Segway of Annapolis over in Annapolis MD.

Both are long time Segway dealers and know the machines. (of course I have an affinity for Segway of Annapolis. Though Harold and his team at Delmarva do a great job too)

For the extra money buying new is the way to go, you get the piece of mind of the one year warranty.

Now to find out if the x2 or i2 works best for your needs. I would think since you will be outdoors a lot the x2 will be the one that will fit your needs, and we find Harley riders will often choose an x2 over the i2.

Give Segway of Annapolis a call if you are over on the western shore at 877.Segway.4

[rrc1962]

Thanks Will....We've been to Seg of Delmarva (Shorts Marine). They have the two demo x2's. They also have 2 i167's. Both can be had for $4900. I just don't think I'd be happy with the older machines. I'll give the dealer in Annapolis a call. I want to buy new, but at the same time, I'm not opposed to finding the best deal either. I don't know what sort of margins the dealers are working with, but I've seen legit dealers on ebay with i2's in the mid to high $4k range.

I like the x2 for the off-road versatility but I also like the smaller size of the i2. On the other hand, I don't think we'll be using these machines indoors. If we do, it would be in a commercial setting with double doors.

[SegwayDan]

The i2 would make it. I once tried running mine on level paved surfaces until the machine actually shut down and I got 23 miles per the infokey.

I also ran it to the beach and back which was a 12-mile trip over two 75-ht-high bridges each way. It had about a third of a charge left.

Since I got my new i2, I've noticed that it climbs my hill more energetically, so I'm going to do that mileage test again and perhaps get a couple more miles out of a charge.

[CovRob]

My i2 can do 17.5 miles before shutting down. I was impressed with that as my average speed was 10.6 mph and I live in a hilly area of the UK...no such thing as a level glide. Plus I weigh about 230lbs...:rolleyes: (I the pushed it about half a mile found some more level ground followed by a downhill gradient and it gave the batteries enough of a boost to do the last 2 miles home.)

[wwhopper]

I'll give the dealer in Annapolis a call. I want to buy new, but at the same time, I'm not opposed to finding the best deal either.

Call Dick our owner, he is the one who will be able to work the best deal for you 1.877.Segway.4

And make sure you let him know you found SofA through Segway Chat, he is very good to SegwayChat members and gives them the best deal he can.

[Seginaway]

Thanks Will....We've been to Seg of Delmarva (Shorts Marine). They have the two demo x2's. They also have 2 i167's. Both can be had for $4900. I just don't think I'd be happy with the older machines. I'll give the dealer in Annapolis a call. I want to buy new, but at the same time, I'm not opposed to finding the best deal either. I don't know what sort of margins the dealers are working with, but I've seen legit dealers on ebay with i2's in the mid to high $4k range.

I like the x2 for the off-road versatility but I also like the smaller size of the i2. On the other hand, I don't think we'll be using these machines indoors. If we do, it would be in a commercial setting with double doors.

You have the perfect situation -- buy an I2 and an X2 to meet ALL of your needs. I don't know much about Dealer margins, but I work pretty hard to get the best deal in all that I buy and I found that the margins were pretty slim on Segways and if you add in the benefits of dealing with a qualified and knowledgeable Segway Dealer, you don't go to the local Auto Parts store / mechanic to get parts, repairs or advice, it is worth the few extra hundred, in my viewpoint, dollars that you are going to pay.

In your business, there is no way you should get a Gen 1; a Gen 2 is your best bet since the Lean Steer will be a great thing, in my opinion, for a photographer and; new Lion batteries with a current model will get you more service. If you plan on making money, buy it new, depreciate it (sec. 179) and you'll be much happier as you won't have service problems.

Also, see the info on the handsfree segway that MAY become available.

Also, the mileage of the X2 is understated in my opinion. If you're riding on asphalt paths/roads only you should be able to make a 15 mile trip each way as long as you can re-charge at each destination.

[rrc1962]

Spent some time at Seg of Delmarva today. Rode an i2 and a used i167. It's the i2 all the way. I was thinking of doing an x2 and an i2 but then when the wife an I go recreational riding, the x2 would be running out of gas sooner, unless the mileage is indeed understated. The documentation states 24 miles for the i2 and 12 for the x2. If the i2 is a little overstated and the x2 is a little understated, that would put them both somewhere around 18 miles give or take. The sales guy did say that they were getting more than 20 miles on the i2 and the x2 was pretty close to 12. I also think the i2 will mix with pedestrian traffic better. It gets crowded down at the beach boardwalks in the summer.

My wife is all excited about the Segway now. She was thinking it would be just a boring scooter. Today was her first ride.

I'll give Dick a call tomorrow. Sales tax may be the killer there though. We have no sales tax. That MD sales tax is a killer.

RE: Hands free...It should be very easy to make a clamp-on horizontal arm that would attach at knee level. I don't see any info on a hands free model on the Segway site, which leads me to believe it won't be available in the very near future.

[DarthSegVator]

Here is the link:

http://handsfree-transporter.com/

[rrc1962]

I saw that one. I thought you were referring to a hands free that Segway was coming out with. This one costs $20K. $5K per copy is hard enough to justify. :) I see the i2 performing in exactly the same way with a simple knee brace clamped to the handlebar. That will be my first project.

[wwhopper]

My wife is all excited about the Segway now. She was thinking it would be just a boring scooter. Today was her first ride.

I know several of our gliders can attest to that!

If you have been working with the folks at Segway of DelMarVA, for sure try to do business with them, they are close by to you and have worked with you, so they deserve your business. Harold and his staff are top notch!

[rrc1962]

they are close by to you and have worked with you, so they deserve your business. Harold and his staff are top notch!

Closer than you think. We will actually ride the Segways home. It's about 4 miles.

[wwhopper]

i2 for you and x2 for her

The big tires get all the Harley guys talking, and having a pretty girl on an x2, you can't get any better than that... (and we all know any girl on a Segway is something special)

Having both will work fine, and don't worry about it being crowded and the x2, it's really not that much bigger in the whole scheme of things, and you will not be running out of power on either of them.

Having one of each is the way to go!

[rrc1962]

Do you have any real world mileage stats on an X2. Truth be told, I like the X2 better but the lower published mileage has me worried. If it really is 12 miles, we'd have a problem using them to run errands.

[wwhopper]

And with an inverter for the car, and outlets pretty much everywhere, you should be fine, especially since you are already probably a battery user being a photographer, so you are already tied to an outlet for recharging, this is not that much different.

I would say the 12 miles is probaby a good number, the higher the tire pressure the longer you will run. And of course a 180 pound guy will run longer than a 250 pound guy on it as well.

Factors are load, speed and use.

If you are using it to run around a horse show or car show, you should be fine all day on a single charge.

I think you will find that the 12 miles will be plenty for every day use, and when you get where you are going, just plug in. You will soon find vending machines, street tree light outlets and all the other places for some juice.

[bodyelectric]

If I were you I would buy 2 x i2 and a set of turf wheels/tires for each which will bolt right on without you even having to change the fenders, and give you a great ride on dirt, sand etc.

That way you can use both indoors, on pavement etc, but when you need to it is less than 5 mins work to convert them to a wider track, off road type machine.

note that an i2 with xt wheels, or turf tires as described above, is a great ride, but the reverse is not true - if you put i2 wheels on an x2 the machine is excessively slow, especially when riding downhill, to the point where it is almost unusable.

rabbit

[bentbiker]

Do you have any real world mileage stats on an X2. Truth be told, I like the X2 better but the lower published mileage has me worried. If it really is 12 miles, we'd have a problem using them to run errands.If you want the soft ride you probably enjoyed, you are stuck with 12 miles max. The X2 is a disaster among pedestrians -- it is quite intimidating and forces people off narrow sidewalks. Even on wide walkways, it will increase the number of nasty comments like, "That thing doesn't belong here." It can't pass between narrow staggered posts on pathways that are used to keep out motor vehicles. The tires mark floors and sidewalks. You won't be welcome in any stores or restaurants, even to hide it in a corner. INC won't support your usage on sidewalks. It is a great device when used for what it was designed -- trail riding.

[wwhopper]

Word on the street is that you have maybe thought a bit harder about buying a Segway i2 or maybe two!

Looking forward to your coming to SegwayFesT in Indy, we have to get you on the DC SEG site too!

[rrc1962]

Word on the street is that you have maybe thought a bit harder about buying a Segway i2 or maybe two!

Looking forward to your coming to SegwayFesT in Indy, we have to get you on the DC SEG site too!

Word travels fast. We had a great day today. Cathy and Dick took us around Annapolis. We covered all sorts of terrain including steep 45 degree grass hills and the i2 on stock tires did fine. No doubt now that i2's are the right choice. I wish we could have taken them home today, but our Segway money won't be in place until next week.

Dick talked about the polo team you all were putting together. I think that would be fun. Count us in.