Poor Sidewalks

[Suzined]

While Mayor of our village I struggled with the poor state of our sidewalks. It was nothing that copious amounts of money couldn't fix. Still, limited municipal budgets abound. Since I have left office and started using my Segway as a primary transportation mode, I've really become aware of the terrible condition of our sidewalks and the lack of curb cuts at corners.

Then I started taking my Segway on trips. Sidewalks are simply terrible everywhere. In many residential areas there are no sidewalks at all because the building codes no longer require them. For those of us on Segways we have a somewhat risky alternative--glide in the road. Electric wheel chairs, being very difficult to see even with the day-glow flag, are advised not to try this as it is simply too dangerous. For baby strollers, streets are out of the question.

In most jurisdictions it is the property owners' responsibility. But if this has not been enforced it has led to a terrible problem. In Ilwaco our sidewalks have deteriorated and many (30%?) simply do not have the money to make the repairs. The City doesn't have the money to repair and place liens, which may not be paid off for years. In many cases the worst sidewalks are owned by individuals living on very restricted pensions. To require them to repair immediately could very well throw them out of their homes.

When lobbying for sidewalk improvement I have been immediately confronted with "how will it be paid for?" My suggestion is for a requirement that sidewalks be inspected and repaired to acceptable standards where needed upon sale or transfer of the property. By requiring upgrades upon sale means the cost will be added to the sales price which in many cases will be amortized over thirty years. I admit this is not going to bring about immediate change but it will over time restore sidewalks to the point that wheelchairs, strollers, and Segways will be able to use them.

I think gliders are in a very advantageous place to lobby for better sideways because we travel them so often. We also are a rather cheeky bunch when it comes to letting folks know what we think should be done it this world. Lastly, we have the perfect poster children, wheelchairs and baby strollers. If anyone has another solution I'd really like to hear it.

[cmonkey]

A lot of the sidewalks in my complex are being pushed up by tree roots, making for some interesting airtime.

Huell Howser has a show called California's green an recently did a show on tires and their recycling possibilities, one segment talks about converting old tires into sidewalk slabs. Do a search on itunes for 'California's Gold' and check out the 'tire' episode.

I caught this a while back and I hope to get our complex to consider an alternative to concrete sidewalks. Then hopefully maybe the city can look into using the rubber slabs near trees.

Using rubber sidewalk slabs near trees makes total sense.
This makes adjusting a sidewalk a lot easier as the maintenance people can easily lift a slab, cut back roots, and lay the original slab back down again.

They've actually started using these in Santa Monica.

[Desert_Seg]

...Using rubber sidewalk slabs near trees makes total sense. This makes adjusting a sidewalk a lot easier as the maintenance people can easily lift a slab, cut back roots, and lay the original slab back down again.

They've actually started using these in Santa Monica.

When I looked at these about a year ago the cost was about 2 times that of concrete (prep, installation, etc) but it would last about 3 times as long so it actually was a much better value (when you take into account time value of money, risk, higher labor, etc).

If I remember correctly this product was invented by a Santa Monica sidewalk inspector about 10 years ago and that's when they were first installed out there. I know they have been used in WashDC, Seattle, and a slew of other cities and that now they not only have the rubber "blocks" but also pavers.

I also remember that rubber tires are now being mixed with recycled asphalt prior to relaying it on the road surface. They were doing this in Omaha back when I lived there.

Great idea, great use of a reusable resource and a great way to repair a sidewalk.

- Just did some reading it according the the manufacture (rubbersidewalks) each block (looks about 16 x 16) uses 5 tires. That's a whole lot of tires we are taking out of the landfill!

[Edit 2] - Cost is really cheap. Under $10 per paver, installed according the to the reports I've been reading. Biggest problem is tearing up the old sidewalk and prepping the surface but after that, lay down the "blocks". I do, however, like the paver look better. [/Edit 2]

Steven

[BringOnI2]

You'd think the price would have come down since 1988 when the Australian Open first used it for the surface of their tennis courts.

Although I understand the Rebound Ace will be replaced next year by a slight variant called Plexicushion that also uses recycled rubber from tyres.

[Metal Whiskers]

While Mayor of our village I struggled with the poor state of our sidewalks. It was nothing that copious amounts of money couldn't fix. Still, limited municipal budgets abound. Since I have left office and started using my Segway as a primary transportation mode, I've really become aware of the terrible condition of our sidewalks and the lack of curb cuts at corners.
Your comments are interesting, especially coming from an ex-public official. I have done many street inventories of small cities and, yes, most places are in serious need of better walkways and bikeways. Your story reminds me of one city where the public works director was confined to a wheelchair for many months after a freak accident. He discovered first-hand how bad his city's sidewalks and crosswalks were. Funny how new and improved sidewalks, curb ramps and crosswalks appeared rather quickly.

I have discovered that the problem is rarely just money. What's lacking in most cities is vision, commitment and creativity. Many good projects can get done if the community wants them and they have strong leaders (public or private).

Maintenance is a matter of good practice and planning. It's a red herring to say private property owners can't afford it. The vast majority of improvements on city arterial and collector streets--where sidewalks and bikeways are really needed--can be spread over time in a logical series of public projects, often piggybacked on larger projects or paid for by grants and donations.

I think gliders are in a very advantageous place to lobby for better sideways because we travel them so often. We also are a rather cheeky bunch when it comes to letting folks know what we think should be done it this world. Lastly, we have the perfect poster children, wheelchairs and baby strollers. If anyone has another solution I'd really like to hear it.
Segway owners are also very visible and, I would guess, tend to be respected professionals. They can help by being good role models, by applying their professional talents to exert influence, by identifying what needs to be done, and by keeping track of progress on their daily glides.

[Mr_Laurenzano]

Metal Wiskers-
"Segway owners are also very visible and, I would guess, tend to be respected professionals. They can help by being good role models, by applying their professional talents to exert influence, by identifying what needs to be done, and by keeping track of progress on their daily glides."

This is exactly why, sidewalk or not, I glide into the flow of traffic, with a light.
CRASH:eek:

[BillK]

Metal Wiskers-
This is exactly why, sidewalk or not, I glide into the flow of traffic, with a light.
CRASH:eek:

My wife and I were walking last Wednesday morning - on a country road - bar ditches on one side so we could only walk on the side we were on (which was WITH traffic) and a lady left the road and hit me fracturing my arm and inches from killing me.

I just now got out of surgery and have a permanent plate and 7 screws to carry the rest of my life. I am ecstatic I am alive to tell this story - but I will NEVER walk or segway WITH traffic ever again - just my personal perspective.
Bill

[william collins]

East Rutherford ,NJ ...we have a sidewalk program funded by the town ...every few years there is an inspection of what areas need new walks ..or you can call the DPW and be put on the list if your sidewalk is lifted by roots or is deteriorated ..Also our garbage is taken out by the DPW to the curb twice a week..we do return the cans ourselves... Our taxes even came down this year by seven percent .. and we enjoy the lowest taxes in the lower bergen County ...Maybe it's cause we have the Meadowlands racetrack and the Giants Stadium in town..Also a large shopping and entertainment center is being built..Xanadu its called..Oh and we have the IZOD arena too ..

[pam]

Gads, Bill, I hope you're ok. Sorry to hear about the accident. plates and screws and letters from the docs so you can go through airport security without setting off every alarm :p. Take care, and hope you heal quickly.
Pam

My wife and I were walking last Wednesday morning - on a country road - bar ditches on one side so we could only walk on the side we were on (which was WITH traffic) and a lady left the road and hit me fracturing my arm and inches from killing me.

I just now got out of surgery and have a permanent plate and 7 screws to carry the rest of my life. I am ecstatic I am alive to tell this story - but I will NEVER walk or segway WITH traffic ever again - just my personal perspective.
Bill

[BillK]

Gads, Bill, I hope you're ok. Sorry to hear about the accident. plates and screws and letters from the docs so you can go through airport security without setting off every alarm :p. Take care, and hope you heal quickly.
Pam

Thank you for your kind words -
I am fine - sure beats the alternative.
They don't give out letters anymore - too many forgeries and they are "useless" according to my surgeon.
Not looking forward to travel though... [xx(]
Bill

[SegwayDan]

I had the opportunity to speak with one of our state representatives who happened to be on a transportation committee. When I asked him what could be done about improving sidewalks, he said one thing would be to simply observe Federal ADA regulations.

We here in Clearwater, FL are happily experiencing a downtown construction boom. Our main street is undergoing a major streescaping upgrade, financed mainly by government grants. This includes the removal of the old 4-lane street for cars and narrow sidewalks, and is being replaced by only two lanes (made possible in part by the re-routing of the state highway which used to go through downtown) and broad sidewalks, planters, and medians.

Other construction includes a half-dozen or so new condos, whose sidewalks do seem to be generally wider and which have what seem to be standard cutouts at intersections.

I don't know whom to credit for what is either deliberate attention to sidewalks or attention which just happened to be part of the larger planning, but we seem to be well covered, sidewalk-wise.

Having personally surveyed the sidewalks in our town during my many glides over the years, I'd say that the condition of sidewalks is pretty much driven by perceived need. The 70s-vintage neighborhoods are indeed usually missing them entirely. The older neighborhoods are lucky that most of them have survived, minus those sections next to trees which have been heaved up by expanding roots.

So we'll be collective voices for change along with the aging population migrating to electric mobility devices who now have more need of sidewalks.

[dynk]

Thank you for your kind words -
I am fine - sure beats the alternative.
They don't give out letters anymore - too many forgeries and they are "useless" according to my surgeon.
Not looking forward to travel though... [xx(]
Bill

my dad had a metal plate in his left leg. He got a small ex-ray picture from the hospital for when he traveled. It worked well.

[Metal Whiskers]

...a lady left the road and hit me fracturing my arm and inches from killing me.
That's terrible! :eek: I hope the driver was cited although I wouldn't bet on it; the rules to walk facing traffic and to get off the roadway are not on your side. In many situations like this the pedestrian is between a rock and a hard place without a viable choice--the phrase "mean streets" is apt.

Rural roads without walkable shoulders are particularly bad because drivers are often going too fast and not looking for pedestrians. We can add shoulders on rural roads to the list of needed facilities. Note that road standards recommend fairly wide shoulders for many operational, safety and maintenance reasons that have nothing to do with pedestrians; most road agencies do not follow the recommendations to save cost.

...I will NEVER walk or segway WITH traffic ever again - just my personal perspective.
The immediate response to a bad crash is often strong and it may take some time to deal with the psychological effects. Hope it goes well for you.

The question of whether to operate a Segway as a vehicle like a bicycle or as a pedestrian is not easy to answer. Ill-conceived laws and poor street designs notwithstanding, I think a lot depends on the surface conditions and speeds.

[Metal Whiskers]

I don't know whom to credit for what is either deliberate attention to sidewalks or attention which just happened to be part of the larger planning, but we seem to be well covered, sidewalk-wise.
Clearwater has a reputation of good pedestrian design so I'm not surprised to hear this. I don't know the specifics of the project but it is an offshoot of the Florida Main Street Program that aims to revitalize historic main streets which by nature are pedestrian oriented. The project has a website (http://www.clearwater-fl.com/gov/depts/econ_devel/projects/downtown/index.asp) where you can learn more.

[BillK]

I hope the driver was cited

I will not know until Friday when the police report comes out.

My understanding of the law in Texas is -
1, a pedestrian in a crosswalk is God and if hit the driver is liable
2. the pedestrian is not supposed to be on the road so if hit on the road the driver is NOT cited
3. if the pedestrian is walking off the road then the driver can be liable and is most probably is liable

The logic here is that if you, as the driver, leave the road and hit my mailbox, then you as the driver should repair the mailbox - why would a person need less responsibility than a mailbox?

But you are right - it would not surprise me if she were noit cited - although she did not negotiate the turn so she was most definitely going faster than the 35 mph posted.
Bill

[BlueNose]

I'm a relatively new owner, less than 100 miles. While gliding across town on a sidewalk I got too close to dense growing yews beside me. Going 10 mph I took a spill as a branch caught a struts on my baggage carrier. Before I knew what was happening I took a face plant on the cement! Yikes!! [xx(] Took a bad fall, almost broke my hip which was badly bruised and ended up with nasty road rash which took three weeks to heal.

My solution is to ALWAYS glide in the street on SIDE STREETS whenever I can. Not only are the sidewalks unpredicable and uneven, Napa has no decent north-south running sidewalks I can use without a lot of diversions. Okay, I know street gliding's got a lot of problems, but I can get where I'm going faster and safer. I watch VERY carefully for other traffic, always give the right of way to anybody, watch for opening car doors and cross traffic. That's how it is. The only time I use sidewalks are on major streets where traffic is much busier, so I avoid them like the bubonic plague.

And I carry a photocopy of the California Civil Code (downloaded from the Segway site) showing that Segways are considered pedestrians in case somebody's stupid enough to question me. (This isn't my idea, I got if from this chat forum. Thanks!) I checked with the Napa Police Department about this. They assured me that I may glide on streets as long as I obey all traffic laws.

I curious about other experiences....

BlueNose in Napa, CA

[MJEdelman]

I'm a relatively new owner, less than 100 miles. While gliding across town on a sidewalk I got too close to dense growing yews beside me. Going 10 mph I took a spill as a branch caught a struts on my baggage carrier. Before I knew what was happening I took a face plant on the cement! Yikes!! [xx(] Took a bad fall, almost broke my hip which was badly bruised and ended up with nasty road rash which took three weeks to heal.

My solution is to ALWAYS glide in the street on SIDE STREETS whenever I can. Not only are the sidewalks unpredicable and uneven, Napa has no decent north-south running sidewalks I can use without a lot of diversions. Okay, I know street gliding's got a lot of problems, but I can get where I'm going faster and safer. I watch VERY carefully for other traffic, always give the right of way to anybody, watch for opening car doors and cross traffic. That's how it is. The only time I use sidewalks are on major streets where traffic is much busier, so I avoid them like the bubonic plague.

And I carry a photocopy of the California Civil Code (downloaded from the Segway site) showing that Segways are considered pedestrians in case somebody's stupid enough to question me. (This isn't my idea, I got if from this chat forum. Thanks!) I checked with the Napa Police Department about this. They assured me that I may glide on streets as long as I obey all traffic laws.

I curious about other experiences....

BlueNose in Napa, CA

Glad to hear that you are OK!

I too have decided to glide in the streets on the sidestreets and rural areas. I only use the sidewalk when their are good sidewalks with cutouts at the crossings. So far, so good.

[JohnM]

Golly! I have always heard that Segways were designed for the sidewalks. Which sidewalks? Where? Those in Dean Kamen's neighborhood? Naaa, there are no sidewalks in Dean Kamen's neighborhood.

Be careful in the streets, guys. And if you are lucky enough to be in one of those states that define Segways as pedestrians, be sure to walk on the left side of the road. It's the law in many places.

[cmonkey]

I guess, I'm lucky, most of the sidewalks are ok around here, but there are plenty of other obstacles to watch out for as BlueNose points out.

Most of my sidewalks are about 3 feet away from the street, so my gliding is smooth. What I can't stand are the sidewalks that are right next to the road. You really have to be careful going up and down the sides of the driveway entrances. Some of those driveways have really steep sides. Those are the areas where I choose to glide in the street (traffic permitting).

Along with the California code, I also carry pruning sheers!
I don't mind ducking below foliage (if I can see it) but I'll give bare branches and rose bushes the ax when I go by. My glasses have saved my eyeballs on more than one night glide!

My other two favorite sidewalk slalom obstacles are pine cones and doggie soft serve:eek: (that stuff gets flung everywhere!)

That's the nice thing about gliding in the street; at least once a week a street sweeper comes by. My sidewalks aren't as lucky.

[Llarry]

In my neighborhood in Tempe, the major streets have good, wide sidewalks. The side streets are another matter. The sidewalks themselves are rather good, it's just the interface with the rest of the world that's a problem. Around the house, none of the corners have ramps, though there are some scattered randomly elsewhere in the block. It looks like a policy of fixing them whenever they have any other reason to be working there.

As a matter of fact, the corners are the *worst* places to cross. If a corner has no ramp, it's a full square curb. *Between* the corners, we have soft curbs and no driveway cuts, and they're no big deal to go up and down. Of course this also encourages people to park halfway up onto the sidewalk (BTW, these are not particularly narrow streets, so it's not necessary).

Then of course you get the plants growing out across the sidewalk (we're desert here, *I'm* not gonna fight with these plants...) and the assorted human activities which block the sidewalk from time to time...

I generally stick to the sidewalk when possible, but in the back streets I do use the road a fair bit of the time.

[Metal Whiskers]

I'm a relatively new owner, less than 100 miles. While gliding across town on a sidewalk I got too close to dense growing yews beside me. Going 10 mph I took a spill as a branch caught a struts on my baggage carrier. Before I knew what was happening I took a face plant on the cement! Yikes!! [xx(] Took a bad fall, almost broke my hip which was badly bruised and ended up with nasty road rash which took three weeks to heal.

My solution is to ALWAYS glide in the street on SIDE STREETS whenever I can. ...
Sounds like we could have a separate thread on crashes! :eek: Reminds me of the old axiom, "There are two kinds of bicyclists: those who have crashed and those who haven't crashed... yet."

I must have expected too much of the Segway's balancing technology because I hoped it could react quickly to obstacles and stay upright in common situations like hitting roots, leaves, dogs and low curbs. I wonder what the specs are for traversing obstacles? (The real world is complicated, of course, but there must be some basic design parameters.)

As for sticking to side streets, that's a strategy proven ineffective for bicyclists so I doubt that it will work much better for Segways. It may be the least of evils for some people, though.

[SEGsby]

"Segways with Pruning Sheers..." ;)

I like that.

SEGsby


...
Along with the California code, I also carry pruning sheers!
I don't mind ducking below foliage (if I can see it) but I'll give bare branches and rose bushes the ax when I go by. My glasses have saved my eyeballs on more than one night glide!

...

[SEGsby]

Golly, do you even own a Segway? I honestly can't tell...

SEGsby

Golly! I have always heard that Segways were designed for the sidewalks. Which sidewalks? Where? Those in Dean Kamen's neighborhood? Naaa, there are no sidewalks in Dean Kamen's neighborhood.

Be careful in the streets, guys. And if you are lucky enough to be in one of those states that define Segways as pedestrians, be sure to walk on the left side of the road. It's the law in many places.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Of course he doesn't own one, and considering many of his past comments, I honestly can't tell why John spends so much time here...

The worst falls I've ever taken were on sidewalks - once due to slippery conditions and another due to buckled pavement. Oh, and I was ON FOOT.

"Golly, I've always heard that pedestrians were supposed to be able to use sidewalks. Which sidewalks? Where? John's neighborhood?" According to John's sarcasm, apparently I am not properly designed to use sidewalks....

[Stanrss]

This summer I spent 4 days In Eureaka, Calif. At many of the intersections the whole corner is level with the road. (15 to 20 feet ) It looked like it has been like that along time. It was a nice design for gliding.

[Metal Whiskers]

This summer I spent 4 days In Eureaka, Calif. At many of the intersections the whole corner is level with the road. (15 to 20 feet ) It looked like it has been like that along time. It was a nice design for gliding.
A problem with the design is that turning cars and trucks will often run over the sidewalk. One solution is bollards (low posts) but these have to be repaired frequently. However, where there are one-way streets vehicles turn only certain directions so some at-grade corners can be workable.

Another potential problem is drainage. Curbs direct stormwater runoff. Large gaps in the curb can result in water pooling or going where you don't want it. Sometimes there are ways to design around this but not always.

[BringOnI2]

Council workers have been trundling some machine around my neighbourhood that grinds smooth pavement edges that have risen up.
Several dozen whiter looking "smoothed" edges can now be seen on my 3km trip to work, and I must say, they really improved my glide :)
Some of them were 3cm (over an inch) and the smoothing didn't make them entirely flat, but changed them from "hit and bounce" if I forgot to slow for it, to a tolerable mini-ramp.
I'll take some pics of them if anyone is interested, though the machine is gone now, so no pics of whatever it is.

[KSagal]

I try to stay to sidewalks when I can, but one problem in my town is that to save money, they use Asphalt (black tar pavement) instead of concrete. They have a tendency to wind around and are narrower than properly laid cement.

They are also much softer, have more movement (dips, root bumps, breakage) than better designed sidewalks.

I find myself also taking alternate routes, but unlike some of the other posters, I often go out of my way to stick to larger streets with better sidewalks than the side streets with worse/none/blocked/broken sidewalks.

We each have to choose our own paths in life, and gliding on a segway is not much different.

[Mr_Laurenzano]

Proper mount and click, stan thanks for stopping by I got 4 blurry pic's and one clear. ; beside the point.
I strapped on the LC today with flag USA, a single ear bud in my ear playing my second twice "boys of summer", it didn't flinch after I removed the i-180 fenders. 'hang on my ... called.'; put on the i-167's and wow the grind was gone. The fenders look good in black.
you can clear coat a a dip
bump over roots
and break what a community can replace.
CRASH