Parking Stand alternative?

[OptiCole]

I (like everyone) wants a kickstand that works. After reading the initial reviews of the new rubber stand from Segway, I am a bit disappointed about it's design although I have not seen one in person. I found this parking stand from another source on the internet and am wondering if anyone out there has tried it or has heard anything about it. It's inexpensive and looks to be made partly of metal and rubber.

I would appreciate any feedback from anyone. Here is the link to the web site:

http://www.notestation.com/segway-stand.htm?campaign=adwords&gclid=CI3NroOY1o4CFRWdYAod7wndRw

[bentbiker]

I would appreciate any feedback from anyone. Here is the link to the web site:

http://www.notestation.com/segway-stand.htm?campaign=adwords&gclid=CI3NroOY1o4CFRWdYAod7wndRw
This is one of the stands discussed in http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=15610&page=3 (post #8). The acknowledged problem was that it probably sticks out too far to allow the Seg to be easily pulled up steps and curbs. Another of those listed by Funky-move is believed to be flat enough to avoid that problem. I don't believe either of them has a flexible shaft to avoid a problem if deployed while moving.

[SegWayne]

I don't believe either of them has a flexible shaft to avoid a problem if deployed while moving.

I don't know what "anti-deploying" safeguards are in either product, but that is where you have to look for safety. The idea of ridged flexibility just doesn't work (Like Segway's stand). If a car door deploys while being driven, things get ugly. Likewise, if the soap deploys from your hand while you are moving in the shower and lands under your foot, things get ugly. Of course, there is still the problem with a rigid stand that if you don't put is up before you take off, things get ugly. However, in this instance, it's a life lesson like not looking in the rear view mirror while backing and hitting the pole or not closing the door before moving the car and taking it off. Both get ugly, but it's your life lesson and unlike the school system, life does not grade on a curve and you will pay for your education.

[bentbiker]

I don't know what "anti-deploying" safeguards are in either product, but that is where you have to look for safety. The idea of ridged flexibility just doesn't work (Like Segway's stand).
I didn't mean for my statement, "I don't believe either of them has a flexible shaft to avoid a problem if deployed while moving," to be taken as an indictment of the products -- I was answering Cole's comment that he believed the part to include rubber (in my mind for flexibility).

However, to address your belief that preventing failure is preferred over designing failsafe mechanisms, the Murphyists (of which I am one), feel that as long as a mechanism can fail (and they all can), it eventually will. The rigid flexibility that you say doesn't exist, is present in the high density foam pieces molded in Europe. Although I haven't seen one, I understand that if you ride off, it won't cause a faceplant. Your examples indicate you assume accidental deployment to be the result of poor judgement or planning by the rider, but that need not be the case; a kickstand that is held up by a spring or a detent can be overridden by an unexpected/hidden pothole or a jacket falling from the waist of a rider in front of you. The life lessons to which you refer can turn into death lessons if they occur on a Segway riding alonside a truck. Until you've been stopped instantly at 12 mph, you can't imagine how unattactive it can be. I believe the new stand is a lousy product, but I won't criticize INC for trying to design a failsafe mechanism.

[MJEdelman]

I didn't mean for my statement, "I don't believe either of them has a flexible shaft to avoid a problem if deployed while moving," to be taken as an indictment of the products -- I was answering Cole's comment that he believed the part to include rubber (in my mind for flexibility).

However, to address your belief that preventing failure is preferred over designing failsafe mechanisms, the Murphyists (of which I am one), feel that as long as a mechanism can fail (and they all can), it eventually will. The rigid flexibility that you say doesn't exist, is present in the high density foam pieces molded in Europe. Although I haven't seen one, I understand that if you ride off, it won't cause a faceplant. Your examples indicate you assume accidental deployment to be the result of poor judgement or planning by the rider, but that need not be the case; a kickstand that is held up by a spring or a detent can be overridden by an unexpected/hidden pothole or a jacket falling from the waist of a rider in front of you. The life lessons to which you refer can turn into death lessons if they occur on a Segway riding alonside a truck. Until you've been stopped instantly at 12 mph, you can't imagine how unattactive it can be. I believe the new stand is a lousy product, but I won't criticize INC for trying to design a failsafe mechanism.

Your point is well taken -- the kickstand needs to be both useful and safe. The new Gen2 kickstand may be safe it its usefulness appears to be dubious.

Of all of the solutions presented (including my own) the kickstand designed by itbeme (describe in thread http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=16135) appears to be both useful and safe.

Now, if we could only get Segway adopt it...

[hellphish]

I don't know what "anti-deploying" safeguards are in either product, but that is where you have to look for safety. The idea of ridged flexibility just doesn't work (Like Segway's stand). If a car door deploys while being driven, things get ugly. Likewise, if the soap deploys from your hand while you are moving in the shower and lands under your foot, things get ugly. Of course, there is still the problem with a rigid stand that if you don't put is up before you take off, things get ugly. However, in this instance, it's a life lesson like not looking in the rear view mirror while backing and hitting the pole or not closing the door before moving the car and taking it off. Both get ugly, but it's your life lesson and unlike the school system, life does not grade on a curve and you will pay for your education.

What you saying here? I can't tell if you are saying we need a flexible stand, or if you are saying that you shouldn't ever put yourself in a situation where you would need it?

[dynk]

I can not even imagine myself taking off with the kickstand deployed. Therefore I see no reason for the flexibility of it. I still think it is a poor design, and with any weight in the front bag, the Segway goes down.

[bentbiker]

Your point is well taken -- the kickstand needs to be both useful and safe. The new Gen2 kickstand may be safe it its usefulness appears to be dubious.

Of all of the solutions presented (including my own) the kickstand designed by itbeme (describe in thread http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=16135) appears to be both useful and safe.

Now, if we could only get Segway adopt it...
Having spent a great deal of effort trying to make a rear stand work, I must point out one unavoidable conclusion. The center of gravity on the Segway dictates that it wants to fall forward whenever the platform is anywhere close to level. For me, a useful stand must be able to keep the Segway upright whenever it is placed or jostled to its normal level position. This instability is the same shortcoming that has been reported for the new design. It is naive to think that a Segway can be safely balanced within a very narrow window of rearward tilt by a compact rear stand.

Your design gives much greater sability by extening the stand significantly to the rear, allowing greater rearward tilt at the sacrifice of its ability to turn in place and occupy only the width of a human body. The extended stand would, I fear, pose more than a slight problem in an elevator, crowd of pedestrians, or glass shop. Also, you say it is cheap at $15, but that requires a preexisting lower cargo kit costing $150.

[bentbiker]

I can not even imagine myself taking off with the kickstand deployed. Talk to all the Gen1 users who have broken their stands by having someone stand on the unit while the stand was down. Also, as I said, there are concerns that any stand can be deployed while riding by an event outside the control of the rider. If you think that both of these scenarios have a liklihood of zero, it would seem to be very easy to drill a hole in the plastic plug/foot and insert a rigid rod. But, if you are wrong in deeming that an impossibility, you will either break the stand, strip the threads in the chassis, and/or end up on your face.

[pam]

Having ended up on my face, I'd rather do either of the others.
Pam

[bentbiker]

. . . you will either break the stand, strip the threads in the chassis, and/or end up on your face.

Having ended up on my face, I'd rather do either of the others.
PamLOL. You don't get to choose.

[GlennO]

What if you got a piece of wire and secured it to the base of the stand. When the stand is put in its horizontal position, you secure the other end of the wire to the base of the LS shaft?

If it couldn't fall down, you could make the shaft metal all the way to the ground, right? Yes/No?

Glenn

[gbrandwood]

Flexible stand? Good idea but in practice it doesn't seem to work out so well (still awaiting my own for a real assessment).

I never broke a Gen1 kickstand and I had 2 machines.

Lots of bad things can happen if you don't do what you're supposed to. Surely we can take a certain amount of responsibility here?

You can go too far with making something uber safe and end up with something that is uber useless - risk/benefit analysis needed. Are we all not capable of remembering to flick up the stand?

[dynk]

Flexible stand? Good idea but in practice it doesn't seem to work out so well (still awaiting my own for a real assessment).

I never broke a Gen1 kickstand and I had 2 machines.

Lots of bad things can happen if you don't do what you're supposed to. Surely we can take a certain amount of responsibility here?

You can go too far with making something uber safe and end up with something that is uber useless - risk/benefit analysis needed. Are we all not capable of remembering to flick up the stand?


Many are speaking more of the stand releasing by itself or from a jolt, or caught on a branch. Then coming down and stopping the Segway suddenly.

I can see where that could happen, but not very often. It is no worse than a branch getting caught in a wheel and flipping me and Seggy to one side.

The kickstand still needs to be made firmer.

[KSagal]

I believe this to be a very valid point. Anything can be micro-engineered to the point it no longer does anything...

Motor cycles fall off their kick stands all the time. They should be sturdy, and relatively safe, but there are always times when the standards do not fit, Hot tar pavement, sand, gravel, etc... Most bikers with experience have a small plate or wood block or pay particular attention to the surface below their parking stand to assure it will not drop the bike...

My dealer has not yet sent me this new parking stand. I have no reason to assume that it is perfect, nor that it is fatally flawed. It is likely to have some useful points and some less-than-useful points.

I can still complain, and want better, but it may not be reasonable to want what does not yet now exist.

I know it is not my job, and I would think that if it were, I may have created a parking stand that would satisfy everyone, both in utility and in safety, but I have not put in that time yet. I have put in my efforts, and published my stand long ago. It is not perfect either.

I just think that will all the people putting all this complaint energy into the parking stand issue, someone somewhere would have found the perfect solution, if it was that easy to satisfy everyone.

I don't have a parking problem, so it is not that important to me. I still may tinker.


I don't think there is a solution that is so simple, everyone will be satisfied. I believe we should continue to look for it, but not get too upset if we cannot find it.

[SEGsby]

What you suggest (i.e., taking personal responsibility), is lawsuit fodder here in the US. ;)

SEGsby

...
Lots of bad things can happen if you don't do what you're supposed to. Surely we can take a certain amount of responsibility here?

You can go too far with making something uber safe and end up with something that is uber useless - risk/benefit analysis needed. Are we all not capable of remembering to flick up the stand?

[SegWayne]

What you saying here? I can't tell if you are saying we need a flexible stand, or if you are saying that you shouldn't ever put yourself in a situation where you would need it?

Neither. The stand should be rigid to hold the Segway up on at least some light slope. The new kickstand is worthless unless the ground is perfectly flat. Also, should someone try to stand or lean on it they'll pull-a-Bush (like the pictured but unreleased original stand). Yes, there is always a chance of a spring, springing, or some other piece malfunctioning causing a stand to deploy, but it will be way more reliable than what was given us to buy.

[cruiter]

I have this stand and so does one of my neighbors and we use them daily. Are there limits? Yes, when you lay the Seg down in the car, it rests on the part screwed into the base and both wheels do not touch the floor at the same time so it rocks a bit. Other than that, we are able to bring it up and down curbs and railroad ties with care and it works well as a stand. None of the stands are ment to be used while standing on the Seg, so...

I'll give the new one a fair evaluation maybe this weekend during a group glide in Atlanta.This is one of the stands discussed in http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=15610&page=3 (post #8). The acknowledged problem was that it probably sticks out too far to allow the Seg to be easily pulled up steps and curbs. Another of those listed by Funky-move is believed to be flat enough to avoid that problem. I don't believe either of them has a flexible shaft to avoid a problem if deployed while moving.