No Bars

[Eric Payne]

Since I just got a new cell phone, that includes a GPS, this morning I went on my usual just-gliding-to-have-fun route to see how far that route is (7.5 miles).

When I left, Gilligan was fully charged.

About 3/4 of a mile to a mile from home, on the return loop, my last bar was flashing. I stopped, turned off, and switched to black key, as I was on the sidewalk beside a very busy street. About a half-mile from home, I noticed my bottom bar was no longer flashing, it was just gone.

Yet, Blinky was still smiling, was still green, and the speed limiter had not kicked in.

I actually made it all the way home like that, from at least a half-mile: Blinky was smiling, was green, but there were no bars at all, and the speed limiter/stick shake never occurred.

So I have a couple of concerns here: I'm now getting less than 8 miles from a full charge. Obviously, I'm going to need new batteries, since I've gone through all the steps concerning charging/balancing batteries, etc.

My other concern is Blinky: Is it possible Blinky himself is simply malfunctioning, and that I actually have a further range than the power bars and Blinky are indicating?

Eric Payne
Glendale, AZ

[wwhopper]

Any changes in the battery lately?

Swap out - or new?

If this is a Li Ion battery - it may be signaling some problems to come.

Last year at fesT, I was running some soon to be dead li Ions, and they routinely went cruising along with no battery bars on my I-167. WHile everyone else was getting the 20 miles - I got about 15 miles on a charge. the battery bars would display for about 8 miles then disappear.

Hopefully you just need to recalibrate your machine to the battery, otherwise, keep a close watch on the batteries to see if they are starting to go bad.

[Eric Payne]

No, no changes in batteries, and keep them fully charged.

Unfortunately, they're not the lithium batteries.

Also, I don't know how Gilligan's previous owner used Gilligan as he's deceased, but since he was an older gentleman, disabled and - according to his daughter when we purchased Gilligan - in poor health, I'm sure he wasn't out grabbing air, etc., but using it just to get around on.

Eric Payne
Glendale, AZ

[terryp]

If I remember right, gen 1 gives some 'grace' time between the last bar disappearing and blinky changing from his usual happy self - maybe half a mile or so.

[ryan_walters]

My gen2 will still have a smiley face with 0 bars showing. Lasts quite a while. 4-5km usually.

[KSagal]

You have gotten plenty of advice on the battery, and I don't have too much more to add.

My comment is about how you stopped and put it on Black key. Why?

I am going to presume you did this, because you believe correctly that gliding slower will get you more distance. This is true. If you go 4 mph, you will get further than if you go 12 mph.

My queston on the key is this... If you are on red key, and maintain 8 mile per hour you will go further than if you are on Black key and try to maintain 8 mph. By forcing the speed limiter, you will consume power.

So, in that case, going to black key will cost you distance.

I will further presume that you do not have a speedometer on your Gen 1, as that would be of assistance in trying to maintain a speed less than the maximum allowed by that speed key.

So, I am guessing that you went to black key to assist you in keeping the speed down, but wanted to say that if you could figure a way to maintain that slower speed in red key, it may actually give you more milage.

[Eric Payne]

You're correct, Karl, I switched to black key because of the distance back home. As for speedometer, that's also one of the reasons I used my GPS - to get an average mph over the route, but apparently I didn't boot that function correctly. :-(

Eric Payne
Glendale, AZ

[Isidore]

Pardon my ignorance but what is the ambient temperature where you glide? One issue with the NiMH cells is that their capacity/performance drops off much more than the Lithium cells with dropping temperature. I know you're in Arizona but if you are high, then you will be getting lower temperatures now, just like we are here in the the UK.

[pam]

And I'd like to reiterate what Will said, sorta quickly in passing. It may be time to recondition your batteries. That said, weight and road conditions also affect distance - and for some 7-8 miles on a NIMH charge would not be "bad" if they've been going top speed. We'd all like to think 10-12 miles, but I don't remember getting that, even when the batteries were new.
Just a thought...
Pam

[Eric Payne]

Pardon my ignorance but what is the ambient temperature where you glide? One issue with the NiMH cells is that their capacity/performance drops off much more than the Lithium cells with dropping temperature. I know you're in Arizona but if you are high, then you will be getting lower temperatures now, just like we are here in the the UK.

Well, we have had falling temperatures in last couple of weeks... from about 110 to 91. For a few days there, it was actually only in the 80s and Gilligan's range actually extended.

As Karl, has said, others have given advice on the batteries themselves, but the batteries have been reconditioned/balanced/etc. Earlier this summer, when I first noticed the problem of reduced range, there was another thread in the forum dealing with much the same issue, and begun by a Segger in Tempe - another Phoenix suburb. I asked a few questions, got much the same advice, and followed those suggestions.

The range did improve, briefly.

Since we were having, even for us, unseasonably high temperatures (45+ days of over 115 degrees this summer; 60+ days over 110), and since I noticed a - at that time - substantial change in range if I glided (glode?) at night, I assumed it was a heat issue.

Last week, I ran the batteries out, purposely, completely recharged them, ran them out, completely, again, recharged, disconnected the power cord for 10 seconds, then recharged them again for over 12 hours. As I understand it, that is the procedure for reconditioning the batteries. The range did not increase at all.

Eric Payne
Glendale, AZ

[polo_pro]

Last week, I ran the batteries out, purposely, completely recharged them, ran them out, completely, again, recharged, disconnected the power cord for 10 seconds, then recharged them again for over 12 hours. As I understand it, that is the procedure for reconditioning the batteries. The range did not increase at all.

Please clarify if "ran the batteries out" meant powering up Gilligan when his battery was low (or even empty), and leaving him pushing gently on the wall for hours. The reason I ask this is that gliding till safety shutdown is NOT enough. The batteries may look empty, but because of the more intense draw down during gliding, you'll see those same batteries "bounce back" and maybe even regain a bar or two.

Everything I said ONLY applies to NiMH batteries.

ps - I go a step further. After Eeyore has collapsed pushing against the wall, I power him back up (often showing empty on the battery meter) and have him push against the wall for another half hour. Then his batteries get a nice 12 hour charge like you mentioned above. I will point out that some people on this forum feel this is a mistake on my part, and I'm risking damaging my weaker cells in my pack by doing this procedure.

Again, everything I said ONLY applies to NiMH batteries.

[Llarry]

I seem to have survived that earlier surface charge. The next one or two outings were annoyingly brief (battery-life-wise), but after I gave it one more good charge, things seem to be back to more usual levels. It does seem now that the first two bars run out a bit quicker, but bar four is holding on much longer, so I guess it's now more a matter of calibration.

Anyway, I know these batteries are past their prime, so I'm planning on replacing them probably early to mid next year. I just don't think I can justify Li-ions at current prices, though.