Comfort Mats

[dynk]

I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but on our Boston Glide last weekend, my legs and feet got really tired. We glided for about 6 hours.:D

Would the Comfort Mats be a good investment, and better on my legs?;)

[hellphish]

On Gen1, the comfort mats make a difference, but it is slight. The Gen2 comfort mats have quite a bit more "squish" to them due to the shape.

[bystander]

I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but on our Boston Glide last weekend, my legs and feet got really tired. We glided for about 6 hours.:D

Would the Comfort Mats be a good investment, and better on my legs?;)Magic 8-Ball says:

DEFINATELY YES.

This recent thread has some comments about the i2 comfort mats:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=16758

You may also want to look up z-coil shoes and crocs footwear, either here on the board, or on the web.

[SEGsby]

After 6 hours, not sure even the best padded shoes and mats will be all that helpful. You really need to take some breaks off the machine, and get your blood moving back into your lower extremities.

There are some tricks you can do, like stand on your toes while on the machine (hold the handlebars while you do this), etc., to help your circulation... If I know I'm going to take a long trip via seg, I'll take an 81 mg aspirin to help thin my blood to prevent "segfoot".

SEGsby

[MJEdelman]

If I know I'm going to take a long trip via seg, I'll take an 81 mg aspirin to help thin my blood to prevent "segfoot".

SEGsby

I would like to see "Segfoot" added to our Segway vocabulary!

[wwhopper]

Magic 8-Ball says:

DEFINATELY YES.



Comfort Mats make ALL the difference - and they are not that expensive.

If you want I will send you a quote - let me know which ones you need, remember Segway of Annapolis offers a Segway Chat discount to SC members.

[SegwayDan]

I've proselytized on this before. "Stay on your toes!" and "Don't get caught flat-footed!" are familiar slogans for many, but they can take on new life in the context of gliding.

It takes a bit of practice to get used to it, and it takes that much longer for it to be second-nature, but I find many benefits to gliding "on my toes."

The comfort aspect is substantial. Up on your toes you have a good pair of shock absorbers in your calves--better than Z-coil shoes and way cheaper.

You also have the benefit of smoother pivoting action between body and machine. This enhances the whole gliding experience, to say nothing of providing a much higher level of real insurance against falls and face plants.

Just the other day I took a v-curb a little too fast to the result of the machine suddenly veering off course under me. If I hadn't been up on my toes and flexible I might very well have parted ways with the machine.

[KSagal]

We should have traded off a bit more. Steven and Heather were the only ones trading off, using the X2 and the Gen 1.

I have the comfort pads, and I was on that same glide without the fatigue...

Of course, I did have that one uncerimonious dismount, and that did elevate my circulation a bit...LOL

[terryp]

Magic 8-Ball says:

DEFINATELY YES.

This recent thread has some comments about the i2 comfort mats:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=16758

You may also want to look up z-coil shoes and crocs footwear, either here on the board, or on the web.

I bought some z-coils, and thought they helped when gliding. While they're very comfortable, they make you walk kinda funny, and I found I couldn't walk very far in them without killing my ankles. Some people swear by them though.

[dynk]

Thank you all for your responses. I think I will get some comfort mats when I get my kickstand.

[ryan_walters]

After 6 hours, not sure even the best padded shoes and mats will be all that helpful. You really need to take some breaks off the machine, and get your blood moving back into your lower extremities.

There are some tricks you can do, like stand on your toes while on the machine (hold the handlebars while you do this), etc., to help your circulation... If I know I'm going to take a long trip via seg, I'll take an 81 mg aspirin to help thin my blood to prevent "segfoot".

SEGsby


I have quite commonly gone on a single session well over 30km long glide from full charge to zero, without getting off the segway at all. Only a few times did I notice my feet start to get sore. Just moved them around on the platform a bit, and I was fine again. This was before I had comfort mats. Just wearing normal running shoes as well. The stock gen2 mats are far better than the stock gen1 mat.

[MJEdelman]

I purchased the comfort mats for my I2 thinking that I would use them while golfing with my I2. They are indeed comfortable, but what I found on the golf course was that they picked up a lot of grass in the grooves that is very difficult to clean out.

If my feet are hurting I still use the comfort mats while golfing, but otherwise I use the standard mats. I use the comfort mats all the time when I am just out for a glide.

[SEGsby]

Macho bravado aside, my point was that after standing basically immobile for 6 straight hours on a Segway, no one is going to notice much difference if they're on a comfort mat or not. It's not a natural, healthy position to be in for an extended period of time.

In the beginning, sure. With a 'fresh' pair of feet, you'll feel an initial difference as soon as you step on cushy comfort mats with nice thick rubber soled shoes. But most people that have normal pain thresholds will be quite uncomfortable by the second hour of standing; unless they take a substantial break and prime their circulation by walking around for a number of minutes, or by releaving the constant pressure to their feet by sitting down.

The effectiveness of micro-breaks by tip-toeing or heeling on the platform can certainly help extend your gliding experience. But the longer you're standing on the Segway-- the less effective these short duration breaks will be as you continue to restrict blood flow to your feet. Don't underestimate the potential for causing damage to yourself from extended gliding...

Great story my director told me recently: Guy he knew got drunk and fell asleep while sitting Indian style. Slept for 12 hours without moving the entire time. When he eventually woke up, both legs were had turned black and had to be amputated...

Pain is a normal process that tells you when your body has had enough and you're causing damage to yourself. There is nothing wrong with listening to what you're feet are saying, and taking a real break when you feel any discomfort. Get off the machine for a bit, and let your feet and circulation recover. If you don't feel uncomfortable enough to want to dismount after standing for 2+ hours on a Segway-- then something is probably wrong with you. Go see your doctor.

SEGsby

I have quite commonly gone on a single session well over 30km long glide from full charge to zero, without getting off the segway at all. Only a few times did I notice my feet start to get sore. Just moved them around on the platform a bit, and I was fine again. This was before I had comfort mats. Just wearing normal running shoes as well. The stock gen2 mats are far better than the stock gen1 mat.

[dynk]

I think that the biggest reason my legs got to me, is that I also have 3 herniated disks in my lower back. Whenever I did dismount for a while, or sat, it got better. I know I have to take more breaks, but was only wondring if the Comfort Mats were also worth the investment.

Thanks again everybody

[SEGsby]

Yeah, get the mats. They're well worth the money. :)

But as much we love our Segs-- we can't be on them 100% of the time...

SEGsby

[dynk]

But as much we love our Segs-- we can't be on them 100% of the time...

SEGsby

Ain't that the truth. Our winter is coming so I will most likely put it away for January and February at least. All depends on how much snow we get. :rolleyes:

[Florida Ever-Glides]

Try lifting your heels alternatly as you are gliding, this work well for foot fatigue for our tour guests. And, we were one of the first to make and use mats over four years ago.

[hellphish]

It should be noted that on an i2 you have fewer opertunities to shift your weight, as the i2 requires you have your feet firmly planted much of the time. On my i167 I frequently put a foot up on the gearbox to take the weight off of it and to give my back a little stretch.

[SegwayBill]

I use 3 comfort pads stacked on each other. One from Segway, another a gardening pad and one other. would not and could not glide with out them.
Also pads on the gearboxes to protect the side of feet.

[hellphish]

With all comfort mats, please be sure to test the functionality of the rider detect switches to ensure your safety is not compromised.

[SEGsby]

Watch out for glazed areas of ice...
SEGsby

Ain't that the truth. Our winter is coming so I will most likely put it away for January and February at least. All depends on how much snow we get. :rolleyes:

[ryan_walters]

Macho bravado aside, my point was that after standing basically immobile for 6 straight hours on a Segway, no one is going to notice much difference if they're on a comfort mat or not. It's not a natural, healthy position to be in for an extended period of time.


Can't say I've done 6 hours, but I have done at least 3.


If you don't feel uncomfortable enough to want to dismount after standing for 2+ hours on a Segway-- then something is probably wrong with you. Go see your doctor.


I'll get right on that...

<goes to doctor>

"Doc, somethings wrong, my feet don't start to hurt when standing for a long time."

On second thought, maybe I won't. 'if it not broken, don't try to fix it'?

[MJEdelman]

I use 3 comfort pads stacked on each other. One from Segway, another a gardening pad and one other. would not and could not glide with out them.
Also pads on the gearboxes to protect the side of feet.

What model Segway do you have? How thick are the combined pads?

[SEGsby]

I'm glad you're entertained Ryan, but sometimes the inability to properly feel pain can be quite dangerous and might be a symptom of other problems...

Here is a general list of items that can cause a loss of sensation, especially the extremities:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003206.htm

Chronic use of Segway (Especially i2) is not listed, but could certainly be added... ;)

But seriously, if you don't feel any discomfort after standing immobile for two hours on ANYTHING-- there may well be other significant health issues that might need attention.

SEGsby



Can't say I've done 6 hours, but I have done at least 3.

I'll get right on that...

<goes to doctor>

"Doc, somethings wrong, my feet don't start to hurt when standing for a long time."

On second thought, maybe I won't. 'if it not broken, don't try to fix it'?

[KSagal]

Wow, All these opinions, and so little tollerance, and less faith in people being able to decide when their own feet hurt.

I own both an early E-167, which is clearly gen 1, and a very early i2, the essence of gen 2.

I have installed comfort pads on my e, years before they came from Inc, but I do not know if it was before or after anyone else, so I surely will not claim to be first.

I did also install the comfort pads as soon as I could get them from my dealer for the i2, but by then I had not only already had my own, but also had been talked into making some for other i2 owners at an event in September.

As far as someone having or not having the ability to stand on a seg for a 6 hour glide, which did include a great lunch that took an hour several hours into the glide, I believe that all the doctors on this forum may have forgotten the various physical condiditon of the different gliders.

I have bad knees, but reasonable feet, and they were not particularly fatigued at the end of that ride. Others on the glide were a seemingly very fit man in his 20s and a young lady who also appeared to be in good health, and surely looked fit to me. Neither of them complained about fatigue either. Just for the record, I do not recall, but I believe I was in my sharkskin cowboy boots, but I may have been in ostrich or something else. (I happen to like the exotic leathers)

All of these boots have the hard leather soles you would expect, and the stacked leather heels. The ability to glide for long periods of time include many factors, not just the clock and the comfort pad...

I cannot be sure on Gen 2, but the rider detects on gen 1 are a plastic baffle that is in a rubber cone that is pressed down between the towers of an opto detector on the main boards. As long as enough pressure is applied to that top of the cone, it will detect. A thick pad or a series of thin pads should not affect this too much unless they do not transmit the weight of the rider to the surface below. The only way this may work is if they were some sort of hard rubber baffle type (Like used in restaruant kitchens) or similar material that can distribute all the foots weight away from the detector.

I will not say more than to acknowledge that too much separation from the rider detects is not good.

As far as more room on the Gen 1 platform to move your feet around, I would not be so sure, for myself. It seems to me that the distance from the CS base to the handle of the parking stand is far narrower than a similar dimension on my i2. Remember, the i2 transmissions are moved out about 2 inches. I have not measured, but the width of the center consol of the i2 does not seem much wider than the bottom of the CSB where it attaches to the platform...

THere is room behind the CSB that is not available on the i2, but I rarely stand there, but have occationally put a parcel or bag there for short trips.

THe comment about standing on the transmissions is valid for either machine. I don't do it, but have been in the pressence of those who did. The transmissions may be a bit more exposed on the i2 because of the shape of the wheels, but I do not know.

I am not saying that our glide on Sunday was not a long one, but a couple hours then lunch, then a couple more was not too much for many. I believe that each glider should decide on their own situation... All the OP asked about was if people thought the comfort pads are worth the effort. I believe they are...

Edit:
I know this group, so I just went down and measured some items on my two segways...

I measured the point of the CSB to the transmission cover, under the handle to the parking stand. I did this in an approximate manner, so please do not be overly concerned about a few milimeters.

THe location that I measured is approximately the position of the ball of my foot, the widest part of the sole of my boots, that I am aware of.

On the E-167, this was about 140 cm, or approx. 5.5 inches. It is hard to measure exactly, because the rubber mat slopes up on the side of the CSB at this point. Useful footspace may be closer to 135 cm or even less, because of the handle...

THe relatively same space on my i2 is about 160 CM or about 6.6 inches. THe side of the center console here is round, so there is a slight bit more room under the widest part of the console, but it is not too useful, so the approximate measurement should stand as is...

One should remember that the CSB only goes about 1/2 way back on the platform, so there is more heel room than toe room on that machine, but there is more overall footspace on the i2, in my opinion.

One other factor is that I can stand with my feet a bit further apart on the i2, which is more comfortable and stabe for me than the narrower stance on my e-167. On the E, I regularly notice the sides of my feet in contact with the sides of the transmissions, and I do not notice this so much on the i2. This observation is purely subjective. Another may feel differently.

[SEGsby]

Just to clarify for you and anyone else who might be confused: People know when they hurt or not-- but they don't always pay proper attention to it.

So please don't put words in other people's mouths or over react to situations for your own personal drama or soapbox. I've seen you do it with others here. Thanks.

SEGsby

Wow, All these opinions, and so little tollerance, and less faith in people being able to decide when their own feet hurt.

.

[KSagal]

I put no words in anyone's mouth, and there is a world of difference between loosing the sensation in your feet, and having them not hurt.

As many have said, those of us that know how to stand on a seg, many find it more comfortable to move your feet from time to time rather than stand immobile. I do not need to move them far, just an inch or so, and shift weight. If I do this, I can stand for long periods without too much discomfort or loss of sensation.

You are right, some people play till they hurt. Some of us continue to play and pay for it the next morning. THanks for the warning.

[bystander]

<snip>...A thick pad or a series of thin pads should not affect this too much unless they do not transmit the weight of the rider to the surface below. The only way this may work is if they were some sort of hard rubber baffle type (Like used in restaurant kitchens) or similar material that can distribute all the foots weight away from the detector.

I will not say more than to acknowledge that too much separation from the rider detects is not good...<snip>[/I]Of course, there is a danger that the extra mats could transmit the rider's weight directly to the surface of the platform, instead of on top of the rider detect switches. And therefore causing intermittent reduced performance mode, or failure to enter full balance mode.

Instead of the problem of having the switches mechanically bypassed, there is a second possible type of problem that can occur, that of a "sticky" rider detect. I have found that the weight of additional comfort mats can occasionally delay at least one rider detect switch from popping back up. This is problematic when one dismounts in order to negotiate a tall curb or a staircase. If one doesn't listen for the little "chirp" that indicates an empty platform (due to traffic noise, or other distractions) one can experience the "bucking bronco" syndrome when going up the step.

I can attest that my three layer thickness mats plus a dozen pieces of mail propped against one gearbox is just enough to keep one of the detects down. I was surprised to find that a few oz. of weight of the mail would hold the rider detect, but I soon realized that the weight involved was the weight of the extra few ounces plus that of the mats.

So once you modify the PT with extra mats, you have slightly altered the safety characteristics of the device.

It would be fair to warn anyone with multiple or thick mats to diligently check the operating parameters of the rider detects with all the mats in place.

[dynk]

I did not realize a simple question could become so involved.

Thanks again.

[KSagal]

Of course, there is a danger that the extra mats could transmit the rider's weight directly to the surface of the platform, instead of on top of the rider detect switches. And therefore causing intermittent reduced performance mode, or failure to enter full balance mode.

Instead of the problem of having the switches mechanically bypassed, there is a second possible type of problem that can occur, that of a "sticky" rider detect. I have found that the weight of additional comfort mats can occasionally delay at least one rider detect switch from popping back up. This is problematic when one dismounts in order to negotiate a tall curb or a staircase. If one doesn't listen for the little "chirp" that indicates an empty platform (due to traffic noise, or other distractions) one can experience the "bucking bronco" syndrome when going up the step.

I can attest that my three layer thickness mats plus a dozen pieces of mail propped against one gearbox is just enough to keep one of the detects down. I was surprised to find that a few oz. of weight of the mail would hold the rider detect, but I soon realized that the weight involved was the weight of the extra few ounces plus that of the mats.

So once you modify the PT with extra mats, you have slightly altered the safety characteristics of the device.

It would be fair to warn anyone with multiple or thick mats to diligently check the operating parameters of the rider detects with all the mats in place.


As usual, I find this post right on, well considered, and very much worth thinking about. I did not mean to indicate that a series of comfort pads would make no difference, just that they should still allow the detects to work. It is VERY valid to consider they may also allow them to not recover as fast...

[bystander]

As usual, I find this post right on, well considered, and very much worth thinking about. I did not mean to indicate that a series of comfort pads would make no difference, just that they should still allow the detects to work. It is VERY valid to consider they may also allow them to not recover as fast...Karl, thanks for the kind words.

I just hope all of us posting our findings about using comfort mats hasn't made it seem like an hopelessly complicated situation!


Summing up, in my view, generally, comfort mats are good. They can allow a longer ride before foot / leg fatigue sets in, more endurance on rough surfaces, and can allow comfort at a higher tire pressure for better range.

Caveats:


Some people don't need as much cushioning. This is why "stock" PTs have minimal cushioning.

Mats don't replace good riding techniques, such as changing your stance from time to time, stretching, and taking breaks. Remember, standing in place doesn't circulate the blood in your lower body as well as moving the legs and feet.

If a thick mat or a number of mats are used, be careful that the rider detect switches operate normally. Both on the depression and release of all four switches.

[PeteInLongBeach]

Or you could get a SegSeat (gen 1) and not worry so much about mats or standing too long...

After buying the i2 I was going to sell the i180, but now that the i180 has a SegSeat there is a very compelling reason to keep it. They are now very different machines, each with its own unique advantages and uses.

Thanks to Mario for a wonderfully designed and executed product!

[polo_pro]

Or you could get a SegSeat (gen 1) and not worry so much about mats or standing too long...

After buying the i2 I was going to sell the i180, but now that the i180 has a SegSeat there is a very compelling reason to keep it. They are now very different machines, each with its own unique advantages and uses.

Thanks to Mario for a wonderfully designed and executed product!

And at $450 on Ebay directly from Mario, all Gen 1 owners with foot problems should be considering this alternative! So Pete, you ready to go long distance gliding? 8^) 8^) 8^)

[SEGsby]

This is SegwayChat... Nothing is simple here.

SEGsby

I did not realize a simple question could become so involved.

Thanks again.