New Yorkers, Make Your Voices Heard!

[Spinmeister]

Dear New York Segway PT Owners:

I thought you may be interested in a blog post we found today on the timesunion.com (http://blogs.timesunion.com/capitol/?p=5173). The post inaccurately characterizes the pending New York Senate Bill 1353 and represents some interesting viewpoints from advocacy groups in New York state.

The facts: When signed, New York SB 1353 will regulate Segway PTs like a bicycle in all areas of the state except New York City. It does not mean that the Segway PT will unilaterally be allowed on sidewalks. The bill does allow for local municipalities to proactively pass legislation to give Segway PTs access on sidewalks. But again, we stress; those cities would have to pass a local ordinance to do so. The legislation does not apply to New York City, so things will remain status quo there.

I'll let you judge the position of the advocacy groups for yourselves. The blog post is receiving a lot of comments from individuals who oppose the Segway PT and the legislation. I thought you may want an opportunity to respond too.

Tomorrow Segway will be contacting the reporter who posted this article to correct the inaccuracies and respond.

Regards,
Carla

[Sal]

That story is absolutely insane.

Carla, lets call a horse a horse: those viewpoints are idiotic, most of the comments are those one might find on a smear site.

I used lived in Albany for almost 4 years! I rode my Segway all the time downtown, around the capitol as well as the Egg, and the rest of the Gov't facilities. There was nothing but love for my Segway from the pedestrians as well as police officers and the like.

As far as I knew, I was the only person gliding (2003 through 2004), I don't know how many there were since I moved.

The whole blog seems to exude a sense of snark.

-Sal

[Spinmeister]

Sal - I hope you will consider sharing your positive riding experiences in New York on that blog.

-Carla

[Sal]

I just posted a comment, but it didn't appear to post right away. It must be in moderation first.

-Sal

<<I think I was the first Segway user in Albany back in 2003. I bought a Segway because I was fascinated with the technology, because I didn't want to drive, parking was a hassle, there were no showers where I worked; and I didn't want to sweat in my suit when I went to work and other appointments in downtown Albany. The Segway interacts incredibly well with pedestrians as well as bicycles.

I am shocked at the insensitivity in many of the comments above. I would venture to guess that many of you who hold such derision to the Segway haven't seen one in public, don't know the facts regarding the devices, and worse of all, have your minds made up and have no interest in learning about how Segway use improves the community.

My mother has used a Segway in New York City, mainly Queens, she and I glided in crowds, on sidewalks, etc. If my mother, a 4'11" tall gray haired spitfire of a woman in her mid fifties can safely and competently use a Segway, I sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that the device can be used competently and responsibly by almost anyone.

Instead of censuring a device based on "what-ifs" we should give the Segway a chance.

What if the horseless carriage was legislated out of existence? Would you be enjoying your gas-guzzling SUV on your 1/4 mile trip to the supermarket for a single gallon of milk?>>

[Cube128]

Carla, extreme anti-Segway viewpoints have been quite prevelent in various blogs, some of them high profile, for years now. Why did this particular blog suddenly catch the company's eye?

[RAG1247]

unfortunately the opinions posted are heard (or posted) all of the time - I suspect the majority of people have no real objection - but those against posters make the news

new yorkers should post their comments to offset the others

one said if the governor doesnt veto by the 15th, then it becomes law (but even the new law doesnt authorize use yet in nyc)

llc hasdone a good job getting the legislation proposed, after a long time, but I guess it reamins to be seen if it will be signed or not

[Spinmeister]

We are less concerned about the wild viewpoints in the blog responses, and more concerned that advocacy groups seem to be making a move to block the signature of the bill. This legislation is five years in the making and its a hair away from being signed. Thus, it's important to point out, even if its just on this blog, that there is support from New York state residents for this law.

-Carla

[Spinmeister]

Here is the language in the bill. You can find this by searching for Bill No. S1315 at this site http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi

STATE OF NEW YORK
__________________________________________________ ______________________

1353--A

2007-2008 Regular Sessions

IN SENATE

January 19, 2007
___________

Introduced by Sen. O. JOHNSON -- read twice and ordered printed, and
when printed to be committed to the Committee on Transportation --
committee discharged, bill amended, ordered reprinted as amended and
recommitted to said committee

AN ACT to amend the vehicle and traffic law, in relation to electric
personal assistive mobility devices

The People of the State of New York, represented in Senate and Assem-
bly, do enact as follows:

1 Section 1. The vehicle and traffic law is amended by adding a new
2 section 114-d to read as follows:
3 § 114-d. Electric personal assistive mobility device. Every self-ba-
4 lancing, two non-tandem wheeled device designed to transport one person
5 by means of an electric propulsion system with an average output of not
6 more than seven hundred fifty watts (one horsepower), and the maximum
7 speed of which on a paved level surface, when propelled solely by its
8 electric propulsion system while ridden by an operator weighing one
9 hundred seventy pounds, is less than twelve and one-half miles per hour.
10 § 2. Section 125 of the vehicle and traffic law, as amended by chapter
11 374 of the laws of 1991, is amended to read as follows:
12 § 125. Motor vehicles. Every vehicle operated or driven upon a public
13 highway which is propelled by any power other than muscular power,
14 except (a) electrically-driven mobility assistance devices operated or
15 driven by a person with a disability, (a-1) electric personal assistive
16 mobility devices operated outside a city with a population in excess of
17 one million, (b) vehicles which run only upon rails or tracks, (c) snow-
18 mobiles as defined in article forty-seven of this chapter, and (d) all
19 terrain vehicles as defined in article forty-eight-B of this chapter.
20 For the purposes of title four of this chapter, the term motor vehicle
21 shall exclude fire and police vehicles other than ambulances. For the
22 purposes of titles four and five of this chapter the term motor vehicles
23 shall exclude farm type tractors and all terrain type vehicles used

EXPLANATION--Matter in italics (underscored) is new; matter in brackets
[ ] is old law to be omitted.
LBD02725-03-7

S. 1353--A 2

1 exclusively for agricultural purposes, or for snow plowing, other than
2 for hire, farm equipment, including self-propelled machines used exclu-
3 sively in growing, harvesting or handling farm produce, and self-pro-
4 pelled caterpillar or crawler-type equipment while being operated on the
5 contract site.
6 § 3. The vehicle and traffic law is amended by adding a new article
7 34-C to read as follows:
8 ARTICLE 34-C
9 OPERATION OF ELECTRIC PERSONAL
10 ASSISTIVE MOBILITY DEVICES
11 Section 1270. Effect of regulations.
12 1271. Traffic laws apply to persons operating electric personal
13 assistive mobility devices; local laws.
14 1272. Operating electric personal assistive mobility devices.
15 1273. Clinging to vehicles.
16 1274. Riding on roadways, shoulders and lanes reserved for non-
17 motorized vehicles and devices.
18 1275. Lamps and other equipment.
19 1276. Operators under fourteen years of age to wear protective
20 headgear.
21 1277. Leaving the scene of an incident involving an electric
22 personal assistive mobility device without reporting.
23 § 1270. Effect of regulations. 1. The parent of any child and the
24 guardian of any ward shall not authorize or knowingly permit any such
25 child or ward to violate any of the provisions of this article.
26 2. These regulations applicable to electric personal assistive mobili-
27 ty devices shall apply whenever an electric personal assistive mobility
28 device, pursuant to section twelve hundred seventy-one of this article,
29 is operated upon any highway, upon private roads open to public motor
30 vehicle traffic, upon any designated bicycle or in-line skate lane and
31 upon any sidewalk.
32 § 1271. Traffic laws apply to persons operating electric personal
33 assistive mobility devices; local laws. 1. Except in cities with a
34 population of one million or more and except as provided by local law,
35 ordinance, order, rule or regulation enacted or promulgated pursuant to
36 subdivision two of this section, an electric personal assistive mobility
37 device may be operated on public highways, private roads open to motor
38 vehicle traffic, and designated bicycle or in-line skate lanes. Every
39 person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device upon a
40 roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all
41 of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this title,
42 except as to special regulations in this article and except as to those
43 provisions of this title which by their nature can have no application.
44 2. (a) The local governing body of any county, city, town or village
45 having a population of less than one million may, by local law, ordi-
46 nance, order, rule or regulation, further regulate the time, place and
47 manner of the operation of electric personal assistive mobility devices
48 including authorizing the use of electric personal assistive mobility
49 devices on sidewalks, and limiting, prohibiting entirely or prohibiting
50 the use thereof in specified areas under the jurisdiction of such coun-
51 ty, city, town or village.
52 (b) The operation of electric personal assistive mobility devices in a
53 city having a population in excess of one million is prohibited.
54 § 1272. Operating electric personal assistive mobility devices. 1. No
55 electric personal assistive mobility device shall be used to carry more
56 persons at one time than the number for which such device is designed

S. 1353--A 3

1 and equipped. No person operating an electric personal assistive mobili-
2 ty device shall carry any person as a passenger in a pack fastened to
3 the operator or fastened to such device.
4 2. No person shall operate an electric personal assistive mobility
5 device outside during the period of time between one-half hour after
6 sunset and one-half hour before sunrise unless such person is wearing
7 readily visible reflective clothing or material which is of a light or
8 bright color.
9 3. No person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device
10 shall carry any package, bundle or article which prevents the operator
11 from keeping at least one hand upon the handle bars or which obstructs
12 his or her vision in any direction.
13 4. Every person operating an electric personal assistive mobility
14 device shall yield the right of way to pedestrians.
15 5. A first violation of the provisions of this section shall result in
16 no fine. A second or subsequent violation shall result in a civil fine
17 not to exceed fifty dollars.
18 § 1273. Clinging to vehicles. 1. No person operating an electric
19 personal assistive mobility device shall attach such device, or himself
20 or herself to any vehicle being operated upon a roadway.
21 2. No vehicle operator shall knowingly permit any person to attach any
22 electric personal assistive mobility device or himself or herself to
23 such operator's vehicle in violation of subdivision one of this section.
24 § 1274. Riding on roadways, shoulders and lanes reserved for non-mo-
25 torized vehicles and devices. 1. Upon all roadways, any electric
26 personal assistive mobility device shall be operated either on a usable
27 bicycle or in-line skate lane or, if a usable bicycle or in-line skate
28 lane has not been provided, near the right-hand curb or edge of the
29 roadway or upon a usable right-hand shoulder in such a manner as to
30 prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic except when prepar-
31 ing for a left turn or when reasonably necessary to avoid conditions
32 that would make it unsafe to continue along near the right-hand curb or
33 edge of the roadway. Conditions to be taken into consideration include,
34 but are not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles,
35 in-line skates, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards and traffic lanes
36 too narrow for an electric personal assistive mobility device and a
37 vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane.
38 2. Persons operating electric personal assistive mobility devices upon
39 a roadway shall not ride more than two abreast. Persons operating elec-
40 tric personal assistive mobility devices upon a shoulder, bicycle or
41 in-line skate lane, or bicycle or in-line skate path, intended for the
42 use of bicycles, electric personal assistive mobility devices or in-line
43 skates may ride two or more abreast if sufficient space is available,
44 except that when passing a vehicle, bicycle, electric personal assistive
45 mobility device, person on in-line skates or pedestrian standing or
46 proceeding along such shoulder, lane or path, persons operating electric
47 personal assistive mobility devices shall operate such devices in single
48 file. Persons operating electric personal assistive mobility devices
49 upon a roadway shall operate such devices in single file when being
50 overtaken by a vehicle.
51 3. Any person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device
52 who is entering the roadway from a private road, driveway, alley or over
53 a curb shall come to a full stop before entering the roadway.
54 § 1275. Lamps and other equipment. 1. Every electric personal assis-
55 tive mobility device when in use during the period from one-half hour
56 after sunset to one-half hour before sunrise shall be equipped with a

S. 1353--A 4

1 lamp on the front which shall emit a white light visible during hours of
2 darkness from a distance of at least five hundred feet to the front and
3 with a red light visible to the rear for three hundred feet. At least
4 one of these lights shall be visible for two hundred feet from each
5 side.
6 2. No person shall operate an electric personal assistive mobility
7 device unless it is equipped with a bell or other device capable of
8 giving a signal audible for a distance of at least one hundred feet,
9 except that such device shall not be equipped with nor shall any person
10 use upon such device any siren or whistle.
11 3. Every electric personal assistive mobility device shall be equipped
12 with a system that enables the operator to bring the device to a
13 controlled stop.
14 § 1276. Operators under fourteen years of age to wear protective head-
15 gear. 1. No person less than fourteen years of age shall ride upon,
16 propel or otherwise operate an electric personal assistive mobility
17 device unless such person is wearing a helmet meeting standards estab-
18 lished by the commissioner pursuant to the provisions of subdivision
19 two-a of section twelve hundred thirty-eight of this title. As used in
20 this subdivision, wearing a helmet means having a properly fitting
21 helmet fixed securely on the head of such wearer with the helmet straps
22 securely fastened.
23 2. Any person who violates the provisions of subdivision one of this
24 section shall pay a civil fine not to exceed fifty dollars.
25 3. The court shall waive any fine for which a person who violates the
26 provisions of subdivision one of this section would be liable if such
27 person supplies the court with proof that between the date of violation
28 and the appearance date for such violation such person purchased or
29 rented a helmet, which meets the requirements of subdivision one of this
30 section, or if the court finds that due to reasons of economic hardship
31 such person was unable to purchase a helmet or due to such economic
32 hardship such person was unable to obtain a helmet from the statewide
33 in-line skate and bicycle helmet distribution program, as established in
34 section two hundred six of the public health law or a local distribution
35 program. Such waiver of fine shall not apply to a second or subsequent
36 conviction under subdivision one of this section.
37 4. The failure of any person to comply with the provisions of this
38 section shall not constitute contributory negligence or assumption of
39 risk, and shall not in any way bar, preclude or foreclose an action for
40 personal injury or wrongful death by or on behalf of such person, nor in
41 any way diminish or reduce the damages recoverable in any such action.
42 5. A police officer shall only issue a summons for a violation of
43 subdivision one of this section by a person less than fourteen years of
44 age to the parent or guardian of such person if the violation by such
45 person occurs in the presence of such person's parent or guardian and
46 where such parent or guardian is eighteen years of age or older. Such
47 summons shall only be issued to such parent or guardian, and shall not
48 be issued to the person less than fourteen years of age.
49 § 1277. Leaving the scene of an incident involving an electric
50 personal assistive mobility device without reporting. 1. (a) Any person
51 eighteen years of age or older operating an electric personal assistive
52 mobility device who, knowing or having cause to know, that physical
53 injury, as defined in subdivision nine of section 10.00 of the penal
54 law, has been caused to another person, due to the operation of such
55 electric personal assistive mobility device by such person shall, before
56 leaving the place where such physical injury occurred, stop and provide

S. 1353--A 5

1 his or her name and residence, including street and street number, to
2 the injured party, if practical, and also to a police officer, or in the
3 event that no police officer is in the vicinity of the place of said
4 injury, then such person shall report said incident as soon as phys-
5 ically able to the nearest police station or judicial officer.
6 (b) A violation of paragraph (a) of this subdivision shall be a
7 violation.
8 2. (a) Any person eighteen years of age or older operating an electric
9 personal assistive mobility device who, knowing or having cause to know,
10 that serious physical injury, as defined in subdivision ten of section
11 10.00 of the penal law, has been caused to another person, due to the
12 operation of such electric personal assistive mobility device by such
13 person shall, before leaving the place where such serious physical inju-
14 ry occurred, stop and provide his or her name and residence, including
15 street and street number, to the injured party, if practical, and also
16 to a police officer, or in the event that no police officer is in the
17 vicinity of the place of said injury, then such person shall report said
18 incident as soon as physically able to the nearest police station or
19 judicial officer.
20 (b) A violation of paragraph (a) of this subdivision shall be a class
21 B misdemeanor.
22 § 4. This act shall take effect immediately.

[Timezkware Tim]

Thank you Carla and Matt.

I wrote a response to Mr. Karlin's blog. I for one am always greatful when Segway Inc. promotes and supports the device.

There's a lot of misinformation about Segways resulting in hard-core negetivity by a significant % of the public, and that's sad. Our grass-roots efforts to inform people and promote the product is great, but it doesn't replace the adequet marketing and educational plan that Segway should have.

I hope to see Segway marketing grow. In the meantime, I will continue to write tesimonials and support letters.

Tim

[JohnM]

New York Senate Bill 1353 gives Segways:

1. No legal OK within New York City.

2. No legal OK on any sidewalk within New York State.

3. The status of vehicles on New York State's roadways.

4. All the rights and restrictions applicable to bicycles in New York State.

One question: Who fought for this bill, Segway Inc or Transportation Alternatives? T.A. seems to have gotten everything they wanted with Bill 1353.

June 13, 2003

T.A. Testimony

Keep Motorized Vehicles - Including the "Segway" Device - Off of Sidewalks

We write as representatives of New York pedestrian, bicycle, transit, transportation, environmental, children's, senior's and persons with disabilities advocacy groups to express our opposition to A2744 and S579 legislation allowing motorized vehicles like the "Segway" device on sidewalks. Our organizations are opposed to any legislation that would allow "Segway" devices on sidewalks in New York State.
We oppose these bills because they would:
Define motorized "Segway" scooters as pedestrians.
Allow motorized "Segway" scooters to be driven on sidewalks in New York State.
Put children, seniors, persons with disabilities and the blind in great danger.The "Segway" is not a pedestrian friendly device and should not be allowed on our sidewalks.
"Segways" weigh over 70 pounds
"Segways" can reach speeds up to 20mph.
Bicycles weigh less, are human powered and are banned from sidewalks.The average bicycle weighs 30 pounds, yet most states and localities bar adult bicyclists from sidewalks because they are too big, too fast and too threatening to safely share space with small children and other vulnerable pedestrians. Similarly, "Segway" devices should also not be allowed on sidewalks.
Pedestrians are already a vulnerable and beleaguered group, especially young and old pedestrians. One-third of all pedestrian crashes in New York State are children and seniors. It is wrong and unsafe to make toddlers and seniors share scarce sidewalk space with any motorized vehicle-whether it is called an "Electronic Personal Assistive Mobility Devices" or a motorcycle.
"Segway" devices belong in the street with cars, motorcycles and other motorized vehicles. New York's pedestrians should not be part of the national testing ground for the "Segway" scooter.
http://www.transalt.org/press/testimony/030613segway.html

[SEGsby]

T.A. Testimony is full of inaccuracies, logic errors and myths. They're using misinformation and fear to get what they want.

SEGsby

[JohnM]

T.A. Testimony is full of inaccuracies, logic errors and myths. They're using misinformation and fear to get what they want.

True, but T.A. is still getting the bill it wants and Segway Inc is handing it to them on a silver platter. Once Senate Bill 1353 declares Segways road-worthy vehicles and subject to the same laws as bicycles, T.A. will likely use that as ammunition to keep Segways off the sidewalks of NYC, which already has some of the toughest rules in the country banning bikes from sidewalks. The battle for the sidewalks of NYC is going to be very interesting.

[macgeek]

True, but T.A. is still getting the bill it wants and Segway Inc is handing it to them on a silver platter. Once Senate Bill 1353 declares Segways road-worthy vehicles and subject to the same laws as bicycles, T.A. will likely use that as ammunition to keep Segways off the sidewalks of NYC, which already has some of the toughest rules in the country banning bikes from sidewalks. The battle for the sidewalks of NYC is going to be very interesting.

Personally I would PREFER this law over the sidewalk version.
while I understand the use of segways on sidewalks, It should be Disabled can use segways ANYWHERE, everyone else, Follow bike laws.

NYC is just too many people to share the sidewalks, I have watched the NY group glide on sidewalks and its not a pretty sight.

Jonathan

[Timezkware Tim]

Personally I would PREFER this law over the sidewalk version.
while I understand the use of segways on sidewalks, It should be Disabled can use segways ANYWHERE, everyone else, Follow bike laws.

NYC is just too many people to share the sidewalks, I have watched the NY group glide on sidewalks and its not a pretty sight.

Jonathan

I disagree that it's a matter of too many people. It may be that there are too many choke points, too many obstacles, sidewalk cracks, etc. I glide sometimes on the most densly packed sidewalks here in LA, and it's the same as if I were walking, except I can see over the crowd, which actually makes it easier.

Ask anyone who has glided on the Venice boardwalk (including the LA folk who post here) with headphone wearing people and kids running in every direction and sections of the sidewalk slammed with pedesrtians like the A train at 5 PM. Crowds make no difference. It's the permanent obstacles and choke points and broken, narrow sidewalks that make it difficult.

Tim

[macgeek]

I spoke with Governor Spitzers office this morning, and as of this morning nothing yet has been decided. We will know Thursday morning!

(fingers crossed)

Jonathan

[JohnM]

I spoke with Governor Spitzers office this morning, and as of this morning nothing yet has been decided. We will know Thursday morning!

(fingers crossed)

Jonathan

Well?? (The silence is deafening.)

[macgeek]

Well?? (The silence is deafening.)

the manual says that "a glider must keep his hands on the handlebar" so he can't take it off to make a hand signal...


WTF????

It was veto'ed

[JohnM]

It was veto'ed
Any possibility of an override?

[macgeek]

Any possibility of an override?

But congress are a flock of sheep, and they will take there cue's from the lobbyists. and there is MONEY on the Anti_seg side. real money


Jonathan

[JohnM]

But congress are a flock of sheep, and they will take there cue's from the lobbyists. and there is MONEY on the Anti_seg side. real money

Whose cue were the sheep taking when the Senate passed the bill 55-6 and the Assembly 100-30? You can't knock lobbyists without knocking Matt D.

[macgeek]

Whose cue were the sheep taking when the Senate passed the bill 55-6 and the Assembly 100-30? You can't knock lobbyists without knocking Matt D.

As someone pointed a .38 caliber pistol at her

"My .44's beat your .38's"

Yes, Matt is a Lobbyist for segway, with Segway's Backing
And the other 4 Lobbyist represent 4 different groups.

Thats 4 times, 4 times the bribing (cough) subsidizing power.

Jonathan

[polo_pro]

the manual says that "a glider must keep his hands on the handlebar" so he can't take it off to make a hand signal...


WTF????

It was veto'ed

You'll kindly explain to them that I swing my polo mallet WITH MY TEETH! 8^) 8^) 8^)

ps - I make hand signals during polo fairly often. The most amusing is the "whoa Whoa WHOA"! Along with the audio track, it's very effective in getting someone to notice they're on a collision course with you. 8^) 8^) 8^)

[hellphish]

You'll kindly explain to them that I swing my polo mallet WITH MY TEETH! 8^) 8^) 8^)

ps - I make hand signals during polo fairly often. The most amusing is the "whoa Whoa WHOA"! Along with the audio track, it's very effective in getting someone to notice they're on a collision course with you. 8^) 8^) 8^)

I still need to learn that one...

[JohnM]

the manual says that "a glider must keep his hands on the handlebar" so he can't take it off to make a hand signal...


WTF????

WTF, indeed. Actually the late Senate bill 1353 said:

3. No person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device
shall carry any package, bundle or article which prevents the operator from keeping at least one hand upon the handle bars or which obstructs his or her vision in any direction.


What 'manual' are you reading? Did someone say something about inaccuracies, logic errors and myths?

[macgeek]

WTF, indeed. Actually the late Senate bill 1353 said:

3. No person operating an electric personal assistive mobility device
shall carry any package, bundle or article which prevents the operator from keeping at least one hand upon the handle bars or which obstructs his or her vision in any direction.


What 'manual' are you reading? Did someone say something about inaccuracies, logic errors and myths?

I will post his exact reason

Jonathan

[safety1st]

So why not send a short email to the governor expressing your views? No matter where you live, NY relies on tourist dollars and they may listen.

http://www.ny.gov/governor/contact/index.html

David Ford

[bystander]

I'm not from New York, so perhaps I ought to keep my comments to myself.

However, I would just like to say, after reading this memo (http://www.segway.com/downloads/pdfs/NY-Veto.pdf), that I am particularly impressed by one certain state governor who pays such attention to detail.

In a country where many consumers don't even bother to read product manuals, this governor has showed his outstanding ability to pick the slightest nits. Such attention to detail! It must be a pleasure to live in a state were the governor goes so far out of his way to assure the safety of each and every one of his constituents. I'm sure all of us would feel exceptionally safe if we lived in NY state.

(Never mind the fact that any decent bicycle owners manual would carry similar points and disclaimers about safety.)

With the governor's meticulous attention to the study of owner's manuals, I'm sure that there's not a VCR in his home that blinks "12:00" any longer.

(Or at least the home of the staffer from his office that actually wrote the memo)

P.S. Yes, I find the situation exasperating!

[PeteInLongBeach]

However, I would just like to say, after reading this memo (http://www.segway.com/downloads/pdfs/NY-Veto.pdf), that I am particularly impressed by one certain state governor who pays such attention to detail.

Does it really take us up to 20 feet to stop from 12.5 mph? It doesn't feel like 20 feet!

Hmmm... must go out and try tonight

[polo_pro]

Does it really take us up to 20 feet to stop from 12.5 mph? It doesn't feel like 20 feet!

Hmmm... must go out and try tonight

I wouldn't get hung up on the actual number. It could be 10 feet...maybe only 8 feet. Whatever the case, the context where this number is mentioned is more relevant. On the sidewalk with pedestrians, the NY governor probably would only be happy with segways (going full speed) if they stopped in 3 feet or less.

You know...maybe Arnie isn't that bad as a governor. Nuff said! 8^) 8^) 8^)

[bystander]

Does it really take us up to 20 feet to stop from 12.5 mph? It doesn't feel like 20 feet!

Hmmm... must go out and try tonight
...It could be 10 feet...
I guess the good ol' governor is not as well informed as I thought.

According to this study:

Characteristics of Emerging Road Users and Their Safety
PUBLICATION NO. FHWA-HRT-04-103 OCTOBER 2004 (http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/04103/04103.pdf)

the mean braking distance of a PT is 2.7 meters. In the same study bicycles were tested as having a mean braking distance of 4.8 meters. (see chart on page 78)

For some (strange) reason, the speed at which the braking distance tests were performed are all different. The bicycles were tested from 19 kph, and the PTs at 15 kph. (see chart on page 75).

If one studies the formulas and data tables presented in that section, one can determine that, if the bicycle and the PT were both traveling at 12.5 mph (aka 20 kph), that the stopping distance for the bicycle would be 16.3 feet, and the stopping distance for the PT would be 10.6 feet.

So, Pete, your feelings about the stopping distance are absolutely correct, and I'm afraid I'll have to go with Steve's assessment of stopping distance over that of the governor's.

[william collins]

I don't live in New York BUT I voiced my opinion of Gov. Spitzer's veto of the NY Bill by sending an e-mail to his office......

[bentbiker]

So, rather than ask the Democrats in the NY state legislature to go against the state's party leader and override his veto, why not ask them to take the necessary actions to propose the following to the governor's office. Certainly the governor's response would let us know if his objections were genuine, or just a subterfuge.

Thanks to the governor's office for making positive recommendations on how to improve Senate Bill Number 1353-A. As a result of those recommendations, we have taken numerous steps. We have clarified via the DOT's study that the Segway has the highest rate of deceleration of any device they've tested, and can therefore stop in a shorter distance (from any speed up to its maximum, 12.5 mph) than any of the other devices traveling at that same speed.

It has also been clarified with the manufacturer that their intention when stating, "The Segway PT is not intended or recommended for primary use on roads," was that it should not be ridden in the middle of traffic lanes, as if it were an automobile. They consider it as safe as a bicycle when ridden on the side of a roadway (but not on freeways unless provision has been made for bicycles by creating a bike lane on said freeway). We have thus excluded all freeways except those that meet their criteria; these only occur in remote areas where there are no alternative methods of traveling from point A to point B.

The manufacturer, likewise, clarified that hand signals can be made as safely on a Segway as on the bicycle. We have satisfied ourselves that this is accurate. The recommendation of keeping both hands on the handlebars is for normal operation, but brief removal of one hand for a signal is certainly safe.

The bill has been changed to reflect the manufactures recommendation for a minimum riding age of 16 instead of 13, and the minimum body weight must be 100 pounds.

The manufacturer has confirmed their belief that value of a helmet is the same for a Segway as for a bicycle and we have thus changed the bill to reflect the same helmet requirements for both devices. As for the warning pointing out the dangers of riding a Segway, the manufacturer has stated that product liability laws require any responsible manufacturer of a bicycle, skateboard, inline skates, or a Segway, to warn potential buyers of the worst possible consequences of the use of their product -- "the risk of death or serious injury from loss of control, collisions, and falls."

The manufacturer has clarified that they do not recommend riding in the dark and that is why they recommend using both a taillight AND a headlight, so that the rider won't be riding in the dark, even at night. Operators of any wheeled vehicles, especially bicycles and Segways, should avoid "slippery, icy, or wet surfaces, loose materials (sand and gravel), steep slopes and obstacles."

As for the wording of the section on use of Segways on sidewalks, we have worked with your office to attempt greater clarity of intent, but none was forthcoming because it is perfectly clear, and you interpreted it correctly. As for the potential for collisions with pedestrians, it is true that the Segway could have a collision with a pedestrian, but, since it is slower than a pedestrian can run that would not be as likely as two pedestrians running into each other. So, unless we in the state government intend to keep pedestrians off the sidewalks, we have chosen to leave the decision of what belongs on the sidewalks to the communities, as stated in the original bill. Just for the record, 5 years of use on sidewalks all over the world have resulted in an enviable safety record of pedestrian conflict never before achieved by wheelchairs or pedestrians on foot; it is for that reason many other jurisdictions have chosen to pass legislation in support of their rhetoric, and encourage the use of environmentally responsible alternative means of transportation. If we want fewer carbon emissions, less congestion, less noise, and lessened reliance on foreign oil, we can't stifle every step toward the achievement of those goals.

In closing, since we have addressed all of your concerns, and recognizing your long record of being a friend of the environment, we would appreciate your approval of the bill as resubmitted.

This, of course, presumes that INC would be willing to make the necessary "clarifications".