HT verses i2 cable locks

[GadgetmanKen]

I was wondering about something. Why did Segway/LLC decide to not use the cable locks going thru the fenders and wheels on the PT models? Too hard to manipulate position of the two holes, or was it the locks? If I recall there were some locks easily picked with a bic pen, or something, wasn't there? Or is it not the same lock as on the cable.

Does the old style HT fenders fit on a i2? Would a HT wheel also fit on an i2? If I remember right the i2 has a triangular wheel mount and a HT has just the one bolt, correct? But would the fender still fit on an i2 from a HT? Does the newer PT fenders have the hole for the cable lock in it still? And yet I believe there was another tringular shaped hole on the HT 180's and the pop out inserts for the wheels? The PT locks are now thru the control shaft release now, is that why?

I was wondering about this because I have another idea for a lock and somethin... somethin, that would utilize that hole at least in the fender, but not in the wheel, exclusively. I would want to design this somethin... somethin for use by all models not just the HT models. I think thats the target market for now being there are around 40,000 or so models out there and if it could work with the PT, thats even better. But I think the PT models would definately need the hole in the fender.

Inquiring minds want to know...:)

[amturnip]

Why did Segway/LLC decide to not use the cable locks going thru the fenders and wheels on the PT models?

Note: The HT/PT hub/base lock that's for sale is not the pen kind, anymore.

Comparing one cable lock with another, we must fix on the subtleties. The hub/base lock leaves the scooter red-handed if the cable gets clipped. By contrast, someone can haul away most of a fender-locked scooter without even touching the lock.

[quade]

None of the 1st generation wheels will fit on a 2nd generation machine.

The 1st generation wheels had a single lug/cone arrangement.

The 2nd generation machines have a three bolt pattern.

[JaredHT]

Why did Segway/LLC decide to not use the cable locks going thru the fenders and wheels on the PT models? Too hard to manipulate position of the two holes, or was it the locks? If I recall there were some locks easily picked with a bic pen, or something, wasn't there? Or is it not the same lock as on the cable.

Ken,
while I can't speculate as to why Inc. made the changes, I can say that running a cable lock through the wheel/fender of the Gen:1 units. In fact, aside from a few times early on, I never locked the unit this way. I always used the Segway lock that replaced the wheel nut.

The issues with the bic pen have to do with the actual locking mechanism, not with the point where it locks to the PT.

Now, if you look at the locking point of the Gen:2 lock, I believe it was something that was on Inc. plate for quite a while. If I recall correctly (and I believe Stan and others here can post pics) Inc had released a Gen:1 lock in very small quantities that affixed to the Control Shaft Base, similar to how the new locks work.

Anyways, to answer your question, I think it was just for convenience. It is so much easier to work the new locks than to run a cable through the wheel. However, if you have LowerCargoFrames on an i2, or any x-Series, you can use a plain 'ole cable lock and run it around the lower frame.

[yosgof]

However, if you have LowerCargoFrames on an i2, or any x-Series, you can use a plain 'ole cable lock and run it around the lower frame.

Jared,

The Lower Cargo Frame is attached by three screws. A variation on this sentence - Only three screws and your Seg is gone.

The gen 1 through-the-wheel lock was a pain! What to do with the removed wheel insert? How to get the grime off the hands after aligning the holes? How to straighten the normally coiled cable without becoming the comic relief of the observes?

[GadgetmanKen]

I noticed in itbeme's kickstand photo album pictures that the i2 fenders and wheels do not have holes for the cable locks. Too bad.

But am I correct that the HT 167, and 170 have round holes thru the fender and wheel? And the 180 has a triangular hole in the fender and the slot in the wheel under the cap?

Last, but surely not least, will the older HT model 167 fenders fit on the 170, 180, or i2? I don't care about the wheel now, its not relevant. Oh, OK, here's the last one, does the p133 have the hole in the fender also?

[JaredHT]

But am I correct that the HT 167, and 170 have round holes thru the fender and wheel? And the 180 has a triangular hole in the fender and the slot in the wheel under the cap?


You are correct. The i167 and i170 had a hole in the top of the fender and in the wheel scallop near the tire valve. The i180 had the same fender hole and you could remove any of the silver wheel scallops and put the lock through there. Very often, on the i180, I would just remove a wheel insert and run the lock through there, without worrying about running it through the fender also.


Last, but surely not least, will the older HT model 167 fenders fit on the 170, 180, or i2? I don't care about the wheel now, its not relevant. Oh, OK, here's the last one, does the p133 have the hole in the fender also?
I'm not sure about the older fenders on a new machine, but since the gearbox sits differently in relation to the wheel, I doubt it.
I'll check on that today, and let you know!

Finally, the p133 does have the wheel/fender hole for the lock.

[stevepierce]

The Lower Cargo Frame is attached by three screws. A variation on this sentence - Only three screws and your Seg is gone.



Jared can correct me if I am wrong, but if you have a 5mm allen wrench, you can just un-bolt the Gen 2 lock from the other side and make off with a Segway.

Cheers!

[bentbiker]

Jared can correct me if I am wrong, but if you have a 5mm allen wrench, you can just un-bolt the Gen 2 lock from the other side and make off with a Segway.

Cheers!No. The bolt can only be removed from the side where the lock attaches. Once the lock is attached, the bolt cannot be removed. Works great.

[stevepierce]

I guess I am missing something, here are two pictures of the Segway lock. One side is the pin the lock attaches to. The other side is a regular old 5mm hex bolt. Seems to me, with the lock on, you could just undo the bolt from the other side.

http://segway.ypsi.com/images/seglock-1.jpg http://segway.ypsi.com/images/seglock-2.jpg

You don't need to have a hex wrench on both ends, it is possible to loosen the unprotected side with the lock on. I just did it. I can upload a video of it if you want.

Is the lock installed incorrectly or what am I missing?

- Steve

[quade]

Is the lock installed incorrectly or what am I missing?

The lock is either installed incorrectly or you have an older design that I'm unaware of.

The lock that I have has a completely different wedge piece on the opposite side from where the lock attaches than the one that you've shown in your photo on the right in the post immediately above this one. The wedge piece itself is made of brass and is threaded to act like a bolt. The only way anyone would be able to remove it from that side it is with a drill.

[yosgof]

Steve - Same here. Got my i2 a few days ago with the lock installed. Aint no way you can unscrew it while the lock is on. I agree with Quade - someone installed your lock incorrectly.

Did you get it as part of the commuter package?

[stevepierce]

Yes it is part of the commuter package.

Does anyone have a picture of what should be ALL the parts that are in the Segway lock kit.

I have two locks and they are both the same.

Cheers!

[bentbiker]

http://segway.ypsi.com/images/seglock-1.jpg http://segway.ypsi.com/images/seglock-2.jpg

Is the lock installed incorrectly or what am I missing?

- Steve
Yes, it is installed incorrectly. The hexhead bolt you show should have been replaced by one that comes from the factory tightened into the Locking Wedge Clamp Fastener (as tight as you can reasonably get it -- it has the clamp on one end and nothing on the other). In addition, a new, shorter, brass wedge is included to replace the original and allow the Wedge Clamp Fastener to be seated deeper, with only 1/8" sticking out. The washer visible under your hexhead bolt, is, I presume, the one intended for use only with the LSF Tool-Less Release.

[stevepierce]

The hexhead bolt you show should have been replaced by one that comes from the factory tightened into the Locking wedge Clamp Fastener (as tight as you can reasonably get it). In addition, a new, shorter, brass wedge is included to replace the original and allow the

Allow the what? <grin>

[stevepierce]

Bentbiker,

Hey thanks for the update and IM to recheck your post. I was reloading the page to see if someone posted a response and I hadn't notice your edit. So thank you so much for emailing me directly.

I will have to go back and look in the box for the other parts. I am guessing I have the right parts, I just don't know what I am looking for. That is why I asked if someone could post a pic of the assembly if they had one that hadn't been installed. Don't take your Seg apart to get a photo, but if you have one lying around of the Seg lock pin, brass shaft lock and screws, it would be most helpful.

Heck I was struggling for quite a while trying to figure out what cover everyone was talking about that covered the spare battery. I knew the door was missing, but I had no idea what the trim piece looked like. It was missing on my first two Segs I got last week. But when the second two arrived yesterday I understood perfectly what everyone was referring two. Interesting enough. I have three Segs with the older trim and door flap and one with the newer spring loaded door..

What seems obvious to old timers is all a mystery to a person who never rode or even seen a Segway until the two showed up from DHL last week.

So I if I knew what was supposed to be in the lock kit, I am sure I could figure out how to install it correctly. You can also email with the photo at Steve@ypsi.com and with your permission I will link it up here so folks will have a permanent reference.

Cheers!

[bentbiker]

So I if I knew what was supposed to be in the lock kit, I am sure I could figure out how to install it correctly.
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14723/normal_Height_of_Wedges.JPG
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14723/normal_Wedge_Top_Views.JPG
Steve,

I was originally hoping somebody using their lock on a Gen1 unit, or a dealer with stacks of lock kits for sale would snap a picture of what the i2 lock kit parts look like, but I'm glad they didn't. I found when I went to take mine apart for pictures, that I haven't checked it recently and it was much too loose. Anyone reading this who hasn't checked in awhile, might want to do so. Others have mentioned theirs loosening but I hadn't taken it as a warning to check mine.

That said, I think I have finally figured out what is going on. Only one thing explains everything (so . . . that probably means I'm wrong). The bolt you are now using is the original bolt -- for use without the lock kit. The replacement bolt you appear to be missing is the headless threaded rod/bolt/screw, that should have been screwed permanently into the Locking Wedge Clamp Fastener (hereafter referred to as LWCF) when it shipped in the kit. I show the bolt already screwed into the LWCF. At first I started to suggest you just cut the head off that original bolt after screwing it tightly into the LWCF, but since the screw is not stainless, I'm betting you'd quickly get corrosion, and it may not be the proper length.

In my pictures you will note that one wedge is shorter than the other and that is the NEW unthreaded wedge; the ORIGINAL unthreaded wedge was the same height as the threaded wedge. The threaded wedge should not be changed during the installation of the kit. The hole through each of the unthreaded wedges is countersunk to allow for the head of the old bolt or a portion of the LCWF. I'm betting that when you check, you find both wedges are countersunk and unthreaded, meaning that the installer replaced the original threaded wedge with the unthreaded wedge leaving him with no threads left to pull the wedges together. So he substituted the original bolt (with a head on it) and grabbed the washer off the LSF Tool-Less Release, perhaps because it was too long if both ends were counter sunk. If all this is the case, you could be at risk; the old bolt might not extend sufficiently into the LWCF to be safe. At the very least, as was your original concern, you are quite vulnerable to theft. You need to find the bolt and I'm betting you need to find the threaded wedge.

I'd love to have a cup of coffee and a discussion with whoever installed your lock kit. Let us know what you find.

P.S.
I'd also like to catch the guy in a dark alley who devised the methodology for inseting album pictures into a post.

[hellphish]

Feel free to contact me if you have problems getting pics in your post. It is really simple.

[bentbiker]

Feel free to contact me if you have problems getting pics in your post. It is really simple. Thanks, Hellfish. Is it as simple as it should be -- either drag and drop from my local drive or at worst browsing within the app to the photo gallery and pointing to what you want inserted? Is there a simple way to make it clickable to bring up a high res version? If the answer is "yes" to either question, I'd love to hear and I'll PM you my email address if you'd prefer. If by "simple", you mean first loading the photos into the gallery, then using the technique Ryan posted of opening a second browser window, finding the picture in the gallery and then going to Properties to get the precise URL, then pushing the button to give you the proper HTML coding before pasting, my idea of "simple" is quite different. Even all that just gets you started if you want it notated. It must have taken Ryan hours just to document his technique.

I am appreciative of the offer in case that isn't clear through my frustration.