Segway Lock and Quick Release

[jlipsit]

Quick question...

In the commuter package includes the Segway Lock and the Quick Release. Can they both be used at the same time effectively?

Thanks ,

Jim

[SEGsby]

No. Sorry.

Though it's really nice to have these options based on if you have to tear down your machine that far to transport your Seg, or you're in need of locking it outside in public a lot-- you can only do one or the other at a time, as both parts replace the same CS bolt.

SEGsby


Quick question...

In the commuter package includes the Segway Lock and the Quick Release. Can they both be used at the same time effectively?

Thanks ,

Jim

[GlennO]

You could take the (lock) hub to a hardware store and get a bolt, nuts and washers, and mount it to your cargo plate.

I have come across a few places where a center-mounted locking hub is just a little too far away from the lock, and a side mounted hub works just great.

I am not worried about it getting stolen either. Locks are to prevents idiots from stealing it. They won't slow down any professional thief.

Glenn

[Llarry]

I am not worried about it getting stolen either. Locks are to prevents idiots from stealing it. They won't slow down any professional thief.



Yeah, that's my take on it. Back in high school (~'83), I shelled out for a good quality bike and a Kryptonite lock, which were relatively new. Mine was one of the 2nd gen ones where they had taken steps to make the freon technique (freeze-break) less effective. The paperwork with the lock stressed what the lock could and couldn't do, including stating "...if several large men with the proper tools want to steal your bike, that bike is GONE..."

For the Seg, I got a decent bike cable lock. With a couple of tight turns around the lower part of the column, and little or no slack in the rest of the cable, it's secure enough for a few minutes inside. If they have the tools to cut the cable, or the bike rack, or know how to disassemble the column, AND can do all this in public with witnesses, well, I guess they've got a Segway. Of course, *I* still have the keys to start it...

[jlipsit]

No. Sorry.

Though it's really nice to have these options based on if you have to tear down your machine that far to transport your Seg, or you're in need of locking it outside in public a lot-- you can only do one or the other at a time, as both parts replace the same CS bolt.

SEGsby
I thought this was the case, but couldn't believe that INC would design and sell this together in the commuter package. Very dissapointing.

Thanks for the quick reply.

- Jim

[Michael Taylor]

I thought this was the case, but couldn't believe that INC would design and sell this together in the commuter package. Very disappointing.

- Jim

Hi everyone-

This isn't the first time I've heard the sentiment above, so I thought I would leave a quick note about what we were thinking when we did the Commuter Package.

When you look at how commuters use their PTs, they generally fall into two groups:

1. The PT is a point-to-point solution - It is ridden from the house, above ground to the office, school. whatever. Once at the destination it is often stored out of sight from the rider, and must be secured. These commuters need security, but are less likely to need to break down their PT for storage in a vehicle.

2. The PT is combined with another mode of transport - like a car or subway, where the ability to remove the Lean Steer Frame quickly is of high value. If the Lean Steer frame does not need to be removed (big car...) then the ability to lock is useful.

For efficiency's sake, we didn't want to do two commuter packages, and we also realize that a rider's needs might evolve over time. One might use the PT in combination with a car during the winter, but ride "the whole way" during the summer. We wanted to make sure the rider had what he/she needed for both cases.

I hope this makes sense,

Michael Taylor

[quade]

. . . We wanted to make sure the rider had what he/she needed for both cases.

I hope this makes sense,

Michael Taylor

Ok . . . but . . . what would have made even more sense would have been to design a system that accomodated both from the very beginning.

The fact the two devices are mutually exclusive is silly.

There is no reason whatsoever that the two couldn't have been designed to work together. If Segway Inc. would like to pay me for a design that is better, please let me know. I already have it. The basic components are already there, you're just not looking at it in the right way.

[bentbiker]

Hi everyone-

This isn't the first time I've heard the sentiment above, so I thought I would leave a quick note about what we were thinking when we did the Commuter Package.

When you look at how commuters use their PTs, they generally fall into two groups:

1. The PT is a point-to-point solution - It is ridden from the house, above ground to the office, school. whatever. Once at the destination it is often stored out of sight from the rider, and must be secured. These commuters need security, but are less likely to need to break down their PT for storage in a vehicle.

2. The PT is combined with another mode of transport - like a car or subway, where the ability to remove the Lean Steer Frame quickly is of high value. If the Lean Steer frame does not need to be removed (big car...) then the ability to lock is useful.

For efficiency's sake, we didn't want to do two commuter packages, and we also realize that a rider's needs might evolve over time. One might use the PT in combination with a car during the winter, but ride "the whole way" during the summer. We wanted to make sure the rider had what he/she needed for both cases.

I hope this makes sense,

Michael Taylor
Michael,

Whether we agree with the logic that led to the design and then the bundling that took place, thank you for at least making the effort to explain the rationale behind it. I believe this is the first time I've seen a post from anybody other than the legal/communications group. I look forward to hearing from you on other subjects like the i2 wheel/tire/tube and parking stand situations as well. Or, am I just getting crazy having such hopes? I've tried several wordings here to try to make it clear that there is not a sarcastic flavor to my question -- I really am hoping.

[yosgof]

Hi everyone-

2. The PT is combined with another mode of transport - like a car or subway, where the ability to remove the Lean Steer Frame quickly is of high value.

Michael,

Thanks for the explanations. Unfortunately its one of those "easier said than done things".

Disassembling the LSF is easy (more on that later) - getting it back in alignment is a pain. Frankly, I can't imagine anyone popping off a train, plugging in the LS, closing the Quick release and ... presto - ready to glide.

Aligning the LSF takes the better part of 5 minutes of trial and error. Sorry.

As for the lock - had my i2 assembled by the dealer with the lock option installed. He assembled the machine probably 3 days prior to me taking it. So it stood a while and the mechanism had a chance to "settle down" a bit.

When I got there I asked the dealer to disassemble the LS so I could load the i2 into the trunk (VW GTI). He did loosen the lock (with a wrench) but... the counter bolt was completely stuck and no amount of toolless fiddling helped in any way. Eventually had to fold the rear seat and load the i2 intact.

Seems like a design problem.

[bentbiker]

When I got there I asked the dealer to disassemble the LS so I could load the i2 into the trunk (VW GTI). He did loosen the lock (with a wrench) but... the counter bolt was completely stuck and no amount of toolless fiddling helped in any way.

Yosgof,

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but removal of the lock itself should not require a wrench. What are you calling a "counter bolt"? I have seen the only bolt involved with the lock get wedged up against an edge of the notch in the spline of the pivot base assembly. I know it happened to a couple dealers here and the Locking Wedge Clamp Assembly will actually come off of the bolt before the bolt will unscrew from the far wedge. At that point, with a threadless wedge on one side, a slight wiggle of the LSF will cause it to free itself and the parts will then fall out, but nobody thought it through. INC actually told the dealers in southern CA to return all their stock thinking there was a defect, when it merely involved pushing the LSF on too far (or not far enough).

[yosgof]

Yosgof,

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but removal of the lock itself should not require a wrench.

I was referign to the pin/hinge or whatever it is called - the one that the lock attaches to and the one you need to unscrew to remove the LSF - hope its clear now. What is it called?

What are you calling a "counter bolt"?

That would be the other side - the one into which the lock pin (se previous) is screwed into - What is it called?

I have seen the only bolt involved with the lock get wedged up against an edge of the notch in the spline of the pivot base assembly. I know it happened to a couple dealers here and the Locking Wedge Clamp Assembly will actually come off of the bolt before the bolt will unscrew from the far wedge. At that point, with a threadless wedge on one side, a slight wiggle of the LSF will cause it to free itself and the parts will then fall out, but nobody thought it through. INC actually told the dealers in southern CA to return all their stock thinking there was a defect, when it merely involved pushing the LSF on too far (or not far enough).

No amount of LSF nudging and wiggling could loosen the LSF. Eventually the dealer just gave up and I had to load the assemled machine - as I described in my original post.

[SEGsby]

It does. Thanks for the sharing the background of why it was decided to include both methods in the same package.

SEGsby

Hi everyone-

This isn't the first time I've heard the sentiment above, so I thought I would leave a quick note about what we were thinking when we did the Commuter Package.

When you look at how commuters use their PTs, they generally fall into two groups:

1. The PT is a point-to-point solution - It is ridden from the house, above ground to the office, school. whatever. Once at the destination it is often stored out of sight from the rider, and must be secured. These commuters need security, but are less likely to need to break down their PT for storage in a vehicle.

2. The PT is combined with another mode of transport - like a car or subway, where the ability to remove the Lean Steer Frame quickly is of high value. If the Lean Steer frame does not need to be removed (big car...) then the ability to lock is useful.

For efficiency's sake, we didn't want to do two commuter packages, and we also realize that a rider's needs might evolve over time. One might use the PT in combination with a car during the winter, but ride "the whole way" during the summer. We wanted to make sure the rider had what he/she needed for both cases.

I hope this makes sense,

Michael Taylor