Another sighting in the wild!...

[cmonkey]

Ok, I don't know if this counts, but this week I went to go visit a customer in Los Angeles again. Took the train up like usual, and to my delight, I actually saw 3-4 police on segways! And they were communicating with people!

In the past when I rode around Union Station, I would occasionally see an officer sitting in his car just watching. At least now there is more interaction with the public and they (at least the tall officers) are quite visible!

[BellsRUs]

I saw my first Segway in the wild on the drive home from Winchester, VA to Pittsburgh, PA a couple of weeks ago. It was a Sunday afternoon (July 15th) and I spotted a white I2 on the sidewalk in Berkeley Springs, WV. I was so excited I had to grab my cell phone and call my daughter to tell her.

Patti

[Sal]

... may not count for others...

The only Segway Sightings I DON'T count for "in the wild" sightings are Mall Securty or Tours. Apart from that, everything is game!

-Sal

[4rmgt]

I saw one just one week ago (Sunday July 22) in the River North area of Chicago. I was walking on Superior I think on my way to a late lunch at Weber Grill and my wife and I were passed by a nice RED segway.

The rider did not say a word, such as pardon me, or excuse me, just really cut it close as he passed us from behind.

I was excited to see the segway, but not happy with the way he was riding.

[Sal]

I saw one just one week ago (Sunday July 22) in the River North area of Chicago. I was walking on Superior I think on my way to a late lunch at Weber Grill and my wife and I were passed by a nice RED segway.

The rider did not say a word, such as pardon me, or excuse me, just really cut it close as he passed us from behind.

I was excited to see the segway, but not happy with the way he was riding.

This leads me to ask a question... When any one of us who has owned a Segway for a significant length of time, come across another glider (when we're gliding or not), and we notice that the "new" glider is not using the device in a safe and appropriate manner, would we say something about it?

Do we have "the right" to say something to the operator?

Or do we have an obligation to say something?

I know that I would say something, of course in a diplomatic way, gingerly broaching the subject with a "that's cool, I have one too!" and moving on from there.

Any thoughts?

-Sal

[BillK]

I would try and make small talk with the person. But - having been a 'vette owner and realizing the comraderie that exists between 'vette owners, I know how difficult it would be to make any of THEM drive or use it in the manner that I do MY 'vette. So - I realize that trying to get you or anyone else to conform to my "norms" would simply drive a stake through the heart of any possible friendship.

No - I would most definitely NOT say anything about how they were riding / driving unless they were:
1. illegal
2. endangering others
3. they asked about it and brought it up as a problem with the machine

Just me...
Bill

[Stanrss]

July 3...I was gliding from Grass Valley,Ca. to Nevada City..I was waiting at a signal in the middle of nowhere...When I looked up there was a man and his wife on 2 i180's...I almost fell off my machine..If this was a larger city I would have handled the surprise a little better...They were just as excited as me and we talked for a while and went on our way......

[4rmgt]

I am not sure how I would have handled the encounter, except that I didn't have to. He went by so fast that I didn't have the time to say anything. Hence the reason I felt he was not travelling in a safe manner. This was a very busy weekend in which the sidewalks were full of people and he was going at high speed weaving around people, going off the sidewalk onto the grass then back onto the sidewalk.

Never saying a word to anyone as he passed.

If I had a chance, I probably would have said something to him.

I guess it is the same when a child is screaming and acting up in a public place and the parents are doing nothing to stop it. I actually say something to them.

[hellphish]

If I said something to every person I passed on a busy day I would probably go hoarse from talking so much. "Hi... pardon me... good morning... excuse me... on your left... on your right... comin' up behind ya." Not to mention if you are in a hurry, talking with people tends to turn into a longer discussion than I would prefer. I always talk to people when I am approaching people from behind, and I think it is better for ME to go into the grass rather than them. Grass is practically the native environment for my seg :) (polo anyone?)

Now that I think about it, Segway is to pedestrian as motorcyle is to car. The feeling of riding a segway is that of empowerment. You have the power to do things that other pedestrians can't. You can move faster than them, react faster, go more places, etc. On a motorcycle you have a similar agility advange over the rest of the pack, the cars. You can operate inbetween cars, accelerate faster, stop faster, turn more sharply, etc.

What is interesting is the rest of the "pack's" reaction. The pedestrians are annoyed with the segway, because "gosh its so rude to do that, I don't do that," or "wow that is so dangerous, he's gonna run someone over" when really they are in no danger (assuming a compentent operator), and I see the same thing with cars and motorcycles. Many motorists are extremely unnerved by seeing motorcycles split lanes in traffic, or dart between cars and leave you in the dust before the motorist can even react. They were likely in no danger, but they still are annoyed or think the cyclist is a jackass, even though he is breaking no laws and is assuming most, if not all of the danger himself.


I am not sure how I would have handled the encounter, except that I didn't have to. He went by so fast that I didn't have the time to say anything. Hence the reason I felt he was not travelling in a safe manner. This was a very busy weekend in which the sidewalks were full of people and he was going at high speed weaving around people, going off the sidewalk onto the grass then back onto the sidewalk.

Never saying a word to anyone as he passed.

If I had a chance, I probably would have said something to him.

I guess it is the same when a child is screaming and acting up in a public place and the parents are doing nothing to stop it. I actually say something to them.

[CovRob]

What is interesting is the rest of the "pack's" reaction. The pedestrians are annoyed with the segway, because "gosh its so rude to do that, I don't do that," or "wow that is so dangerous, he's gonna run someone over" when really they are in no danger (assuming a compentent operator), and I see the same thing with cars and motorcycles. Many motorists are extremely unnerved by seeing motorcycles split lanes in traffic, or dart between cars and leave you in the dust before the motorist can even react. They were likely in no danger, but they still are annoyed or think the cyclist is a jackass, even though he is breaking no laws and is assuming most, if not all of the danger himself.
...being a motorcyclist as well I can relate to the similarities.

[KSagal]

Speaking as a car driver (I also can and have driven motorcycles) I find it very annoying when a bike goes up between lanes of cars. It is not only annoying, it is dangerous, as they are where they are not legally supposed to be, and would be cited if caught.

This is not the same as riding two abrest in a lane, that is fine. Riding like this in a group is more efficient, and does not endanger others. The bikers are also less likely to be hit by a mirror or the like...

Just because a bike has capacities that a car does not, does not change the rules of the road.

I believe that segs are the same. Just because they have more capacity than the average pedestrian, the 'rules of the road' for sidewalks are relatively the same.

Giving up the sidewalk and going to the grass is the right thing to do, in my opinion, more often than not. I often do it to exagerate the point of yielding the right of way, especially with older pedestrians, and those who seem uneasy with my being there next to them. Most times that I do that, there is really enough room for both seg and ped, but if they seem nervous, I make the overt gesture.

As far as gliding past people, each case has to be evaluated on it's own merrit. I am a social person, I speak to people on the sidewalk, and in elevators, where it usually makes people very uncomfortable. THe rule of the road for elevators is usually to stare at the numbers and be quiet...

I will not say here that a person on their way somewhere, on a mission, as it may have been, was wrong to glide more aggressively, unless of course, they were cutting people off, or scareing them.

In truth, I have found that people often do dangerous things when I give a friendly toot or say, "Behind you" and they were no paying attention. They often move sideways, or stop and spin around, or some other hard to predict move. Typical I do it anyway from a safe distance, but I can see how a commute like that would be more difficult and time consuming.

I still believe that we should be friendly and good will embassitors. But that is my nature. If you usually walk the crowd and do not speak to people, it may not be fair to ask you to glide the crowd and speak to everyone...

[hellphish]

It is safe to say that the laws differ in our hometowns.

Giving up the sidewalk and going to the grass is the right thing to do, in my opinion, more often than not. I often do it to exagerate the point of yielding the right of way, especially with older pedestrians, and those who seem uneasy with my being there next to them. Most times that I do that, there is really enough room for both seg and ped, but if they seem nervous, I make the overt gesture.


Me too, I think that is the right thing to do, at least for now.

[BillK]

I find it very annoying when a bike goes up between lanes of cars. It is not only annoying, it is dangerous, as they are where they are not legally supposed to be, and would be cited if caught.
..

Belive it or not I believe that this is SPECIFICALLY LEGAL in California - you can SPECIFICALLY drive in between lanes of cars.
Bill

[Mr_Laurenzano]

... may not count for others...

The only Segway Sightings I DON'T count for "in the wild" sightings are Mall Securty or Tours. Apart from that, everything is game!

-Sal

Common' sal you havent been on one of my tours. In the wild.
Crash

[JohnM]

Belive it or not I believe that this is SPECIFICALLY LEGAL in California - you can SPECIFICALLY drive in between lanes of cars.
Bill

Not...............

[BillK]

Hard to believe isn't it? I have been told this by CHP officers and denizens of that great state - it was designed to allow motorcycles to creep forward when traffic is stopped but since there is no restriction they ride right up and through between cars at 70 mph. CHP officers do it all the time right between cars without any sirens or any warning.
Go figure.
Possibly someone from California could chime in here?
Bill

[hellphish]

I already did :) From what I remember the law is that the motorcyclist may go 10mph faster than the cars in traffic. But this isn't a converstion about cycle laws.

My point was that what scares the pack isn't necessarily dangerous. A competant rider on a motorcycle can pull off a maneuver and then be GONE more quickly than you could react, which you shouldn't even have to do if he's done his part correctly. It is very rare that I have to slow down (the most dangerous part of highway driving) because of what a motorcyclist is doing.

The best motorcyclists ride as if they are invisible. They don't put their safety into the hands of other drivers, and they assume everyone is out to kill them.

[quade]

Hard to believe isn't it? I have been told this by CHP officers and denizens of that great state - it was designed to allow motorcycles to creep forward when traffic is stopped but since there is no restriction they ride right up and through between cars at 70 mph. CHP officers do it all the time right between cars without any sirens or any warning.
Go figure.
Possibly someone from California could chime in here?
Bill

See; http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/dl655/dl665mcycle.pdf page 15.

Essentially legal but not advisable.

[quade]

The best motorcyclists ride . . . . They don't put their safety into the hands of other drivers, and they assume everyone is out to kill them.

Isn't that actually true of anyone operating any vehicle of any type?

[quade]

Hmmm, my basic rule pretty much no matter what I'm doing. I pretty much always assume everyone on the road, on the sea or in the air is trying to kill me.

[BillK]

In most states that I know of driving between cars will get you a ticket if you get seen by a ticket writing authority. In California (land of many unreasonable and crazy laws and requirements - in my opinion) they make this one specifically legal.
Bill

[bystander]

Possibly someone from California could chime in here?


I'm from California, I don't ride a motorcycle.

My understanding of the point of the law mentioned is that in stopped or "stop n go" traffic, motorcycles are at a disadvantage due to their sometimes unwieldy weight and poor low-speed stability. Therefore, they have been given the right to pass between cars, when it is safe to do so, and at low relative speed, in order to avoid slowing too much or coming to a halt.

In practice however, I have occasionally witnessed some motorcycle operators "bending" the rule a bit...

I think some motorcyclists get used to doing it, take it for granted, then sometimes forget to concern themselves so much about the "when safe to do so" part or at how low a speed they are permitted to do it.

Straining to get back OT, since PTs are more maneuverable at low speed than high speed, this kind of argument (about motorcycles) is moot.

I see the point that a PT could "outmaneuver" a standing or walking pedestrian, (getting out of their way before there's an objection), but occasionally the maneuver required is beyond the threshold of good safety. Unfortunately this is seldom discovered until one is committed to said maneuver.

I find, for me, the best case is to let the pedestrians go where they want to go and keep the PT out of their way. That, or find an alternate route that is less pedestrian-dense, even if it is a little longer.

Sure it can take a little longer time to get where I'm going. If I wanted to get there faster, I would have considered a different form of transport before departing. As it is, I usually compare the time traveled on the PT as an advantage over walking speed, so no matter how much I have to match my speed to any pedestrians present, I still come out ahead.

Hmmm, my basic rule pretty much no matter what I'm doing. I pretty much always assume everyone on the road, on the sea or in the air is trying to kill me.What about underground! lol

[KSagal]

Belive it or not I believe that this is SPECIFICALLY LEGAL in California - you can SPECIFICALLY drive in between lanes of cars.
Bill
From time to time, I learn something on this forum. Had I not been told this, I could not have imagined it.

Since my brain was full, and I now know this insane thing about driving in California, I wonder what tid-bit got forced out?

Hard to believe isn't it? I have been told this by CHP officers and denizens of that great state - it was designed to allow motorcycles to creep forward when traffic is stopped but since there is no restriction they ride right up and through between cars at 70 mph. CHP officers do it all the time right between cars without any sirens or any warning.
Go figure.
Possibly someone from California could chime in here?
Bill
Police doing this does not seem particularly hard to believe, nor as egregious, presuming that police exercise appropriate discression.
In most states that I know of driving between cars will get you a ticket if you get seen by a ticket writing authority. In California (land of many unreasonable and crazy laws and requirements - in my opinion) they make this one specifically legal.
Bill
My experience had been the former, I do wonder at the stats...
I'm from California, I don't ride a motorcycle.

My understanding of the point of the law mentioned is that in stopped or "stop n go" traffic, motorcycles are at a disadvantage due to their sometimes unwieldy weight and poor low-speed stability. Therefore, they have been given the right to pass between cars, when it is safe to do so, and at low relative speed, in order to avoid slowing too much or coming to a halt.

In practice however, I have occasionally witnessed some motorcycle operators "bending" the rule a bit...

I think some motorcyclists get used to doing it, take it for granted, then sometimes forget to concern themselves so much about the "when safe to do so" part or at how low a speed they are permitted to do it.

Straining to get back OT, since PTs are more maneuverable at low speed than high speed, this kind of argument (about motorcycles) is moot.

I see the point that a PT could "outmaneuver" a standing or walking pedestrian, (getting out of their way before there's an objection), but occasionally the maneuver required is beyond the threshold of good safety. Unfortunately this is seldom discovered until one is committed to said maneuver.

I find, for me, the best case is to let the pedestrians go where they want to go and keep the PT out of their way. That, or find an alternate route that is less pedestrian-dense, even if it is a little longer.

Sure it can take a little longer time to get where I'm going. If I wanted to get there faster, I would have considered a different form of transport before departing. As it is, I usually compare the time traveled on the PT as an advantage over walking speed, so no matter how much I have to match my speed to any pedestrians present, I still come out ahead.

What about underground! lol

Actually, I believe that the discussion about how motorcycles integrate themselves into the driving society is germaine to speaking of how segways integrate themselves into the walking society.

I think of it as an evolutionary thing. Motorcycles are a real fact that everyone knows about. All drivers, whether or not they like bikes, know they are there. All bike drivers, know the have rights on the road, and know they have some advantages and disadvantages.

We spoke earlier of how we yield the right of way, at this point in the formation of the acceptance of segways into society, and I am sure there was a parallel in motorcycle history...

When segways are a more durable fixture in the pedestrian landscape, it may be likely that more aggressive use of some of the segways' advantages will be expected, and even better tollerated than at this point...

[KSagal]

Hmmm, my basic rule pretty much no matter what I'm doing. I pretty much always assume everyone on the road, on the sea or in the air is trying to kill me.


This is a straight line that is just too hard to pass up...

What exactly do you do to inspire such a homicidal intent upon your body? Kind of makes me nervous to want to glide too close to you...LOL

This is an interesting twist on Will Roger's famous line, "I never met a man I did not like" or what ever that quote was...

Yours could be, "I never met a man who did not want to kill me..."

As for myself, I have found that even as annoying as I can be, the overwhelming majority of people out in the 'wild' would pretty much be happy to just ignore my existence...

[hellphish]

Who would have thought that Segwaychat would totally miss the point of one of my posts?

The center of the motorcycle analogy is the reaction from the rest of the crowd, and how it seldom reflects on fact. If Karl drove in CA before today and saw a motorcyclist, he may have been totally convinced that the rider was breaking the law. This is perception based on what he previously knew and is totally reasonable. If he drives here after today and sees a biker, he might merely think the rider is an unsafe jerk! :) I get this sometimes gliding around town. I hear comments like "that's illegal on the sidewalk," or "he should be in the road with the other bikes" pretty commonly.

I think of it as an evolutionary thing. Motorcycles are a real fact that everyone knows about. All drivers, whether or not they like bikes, know they are there. All bike drivers, know the have rights on the road, and know they have some advantages and disadvantages.

This is a good point, but I want to emphasise the fact that non-riders generally have almost no clue how bikes work, their limits, their capabilities, nor the laws that regulate them.

[bystander]

...When segways are a more durable fixture in the pedestrian landscape, it may be likely that more aggressive use of some of the segways' advantages will be expected, and even better tolerated than at this point...

In general, I see your point about how folks react to a new vehicle / device introduction. Specifically, however, I think this motorcycle comparison is weak. Why?

Well, motorcycles have an excuse for behaving aggressively, as their performance may lend itself to less than safe situations when interacting with other traffic at low speeds. PTs have no such excuse, as PTs match the performance of the other traffic, from standing still to jogging speed.

However, if some of us act too aggressively too quickly, won't we all get kicked off the sidewalk?

Let us not discuss aggressive uses until the PTs outnumber (or at least achieve parity) with pedestrians.

[quade]

As for myself, I have found that even as annoying as I can be, the overwhelming majority of people out in the 'wild' would pretty much be happy to just ignore my existence...

Perhaps you have taken my statement a bit too litterally. No. I don't think they are actively trying to kill me, but rather their passive actions (or inactions) at the controls of a vehicle are far more likely to get me killed than anything I'm likely to do. Therefore, I am the one that has to look out for whatever it is they might be doing.

Assuming that you're intentionally missing the point of my comment for your own personal amusement, but the last line of yours makes me wonder . . .

While I am very happy when people leave me alone, that is something altogether different than them ignoring my existance. For instance, I certainly want them to see me and stop when I'm crossing in front of them.

[polo_pro]

Since my brain was full, and I now know this insane thing about driving in California, I wonder what tid-bit got forced out?

One can only hope that the neurons responsible for your polo swing are still intact. 8^) 8^) 8^)

[KSagal]

Perhaps you have taken my statement a bit too litterally. No. I don't think they are actively trying to kill me, but rather their passive actions (or inactions) at the controls of a vehicle are far more likely to get me killed than anything I'm likely to do. Therefore, I am the one that has to look out for whatever it is they might be doing.

Assuming that you're intentionally missing the point of my comment for your own personal amusement, but the last line of yours makes me wonder . . .

While I am very happy when people leave me alone, that is something altogether different than them ignoring my existance. For instance, I certainly want them to see me and stop when I'm crossing in front of them.

I was indeed acting like I thought you believed that everyone was out to kill you. We both know that only the paranoids are out to get you!

[bystander]

I was indeed acting like I thought you believed that everyone was out to kill you. We both know that only the paranoids are out to get you!

Er, I think you're thinking of narapoids, not paranoids.

See “The Origin of Narapoia”, an old sci-fi short story published in the late 1940s / early 1950s.

But don't let them know I told you, okay?

[KSagal]

Actually, I was making reference to a real response that went horribly wrong in my own past...

I used to work with this man that had a tremendous persecution complex. He was sure there were people out there to get him...

I tried to lighten the mood one day with the joke that the Paranoids were out to get him... Instead of getting it, (and realizing that I was calling him paranoid) he agreed with me, and thought they were....

[hellphish]

It is only paranoia if they aren't out to get you.

[Zorba9]

Was at the Oshkosh EAA Airventure fair last week and saw 2 - 180's glide past. I was on a rented bicycle, with my closest HT over 1000 miles away!


Its not paranoia when they ARE out to get you!


KOG

[Timezkware Tim]

Belive it or not I believe that this is SPECIFICALLY LEGAL in California - you can SPECIFICALLY drive in between lanes of cars.
Bill

Not...............

Just noticed this thread, as I saw a Segway on the 3rd St. Promenade this morning in Santa Monica.

Re: the "White-Lining" law in CA: John is right, you can't specifically ride a motorcycle between moving vehicles by riding on the white line, but you can ride between them if they are stopped at a traffic signal. This law was created so that motorcyclists didn't have to sit behind a car at a light breathing fumes from idling engines waiting for the light to change.

Tim

[bentbiker]

Just noticed this thread, as I saw a Segway on the 3rd St. Promenade this morning in Santa Monica.

Re: the "White-Lining" law in CA: John is right, you can't specifically ride a motorcycle between moving vehicles by riding on the white line, but you can ride between them if they are stopped at a traffic signal. This law was created so that motorcyclists didn't have to sit behind a car at a light breathing fumes from idling engines waiting for the light to change.

TimSo, you disagree with Quade's interpretation of the DMV handbook he references when he says "legal but not advisable"?

[Drewi216]

as a response to the subject earlier in the thread.... i was gliding in a mall (it was not simmons, the guards actually talked to me about it and they wanted some :)) well i went in and out of a few stores and when my shopping was through my car was parked at the other end of the mall, i wasnt in a real hurry so i was going a bout the same speed as the people traffic, just before i got ot the door this little kid ran out in front of me and acted like he was trying to tackle me on my segway, i would say he was about 5-6 yrs old, and i had to apply full brakes to the segway (getting the stick shake warning and flat face) and i came about an inch from hitting him, his parents asked me what the he*l i was doing and that i should slow down,, (when i was going slower than they were),, oohhh the things i wanted to say, but i just shrugged and sighed and went on my way.

[Hobbes]

Was at the Oshkosh EAA Airventure fair last week...Zorba, I am sooo jealous......Was the Aeroprakt A-36 high-mid wing, pusher tandem twin there?

[driley]

In regards to lane splitting in California. It has been years since I have ridden a bike on the street in California but you can do it. I do not know that there are any specific laws or not but do know that it is an accepted practice under certain circumstances.

Lane splitting is generally permissible when traffic is stopped or going much slower than the posted limit, such as stop-and-go traffic on the freeway.

While it may seem dangerous, it really is not if done under the circumstances listed above. Consider that on a motorcycle, you are not surrounded by a steel cage. When traffic stops for any reason or you are in stop and go traffic, you can be in a very dangerous position if you stop behind a car. Getting rear ended in car can be a bad experience. Getting rear ended while riding a bike can be your last experience, or certainly a life changing one.

When lane splitting, you are supposed to pass at a rate not much higher than the speed of traffic. IE, if the traffic is going 15 MPH, you should not be splitting lanes at 55 MPH.

You rarely (less likely than a Segway sighting in the wild ) see any motorcycle rider on a freeway in California staying behind cars when traffic slows or stops. Motorcycle cops all do it as well and they do not pull over motorcyclists for the practice... unless they are doing it when traffic is moving fast. Not sure what they write the rider up for but it must be something that is a bit subjective, such as for an usage lane change.