i2 handlebar bag - 3/16" wrench!

[pninen]

Well... I bought a handlebar bag for my i2 today. Took it home and tried to install it. That bolt looked like it might need a 5mm allen wrench. No. 5mm is too big. 4mm is too small. How can this be? I bought a nice tiny metric allen wrench set at a bike store which I intended to carry in my new bag, because everything on the segway is metric allen head, right? But it didn't seem to work. I found another metric allen set just to double check. It didn't work either.

The darn thing turned out to be 3/16". Everything else on my segways is metric, but the handlebar bag comes with an English bolt! I was quite surprised and frankly somewhat disappointed.

A new product. I buy everything from one supplier. Why have they mixed systems? Somebody not thinking?

[dgbint]

My 4.5 mm hex key ( allen key ) works just fine.

I guess that maybe your minimal key set might not include some of those mid sizes.

Michael

[sholloway]

I too was not thrilled to find it was 3/16. I use pliers on the outside of the screw but I wish it was 5mm. I guess we could find a 5mm screw with that diameter, length, and thread count. Who sells those?

[terryp]

I'm guessing that Segway has their accessories made by different suppliers - some stateside, some off-shore, and that might explain the mix of metric and imperial hardware.

Since the bracket gets mounted once, and there is no adjustment required, you shouldn't need to carry along an extra wrench for it. Not a big deal.

[dale@thecoys.net]

My 4.5 mm hex key ( allen key ) works just fine.

I guess that maybe your minimal key set might not include some of those mid sizes.

Michael

A 3/16" allen key seems to be a better fit than a 4.5 mm key. And the thread pitch on the bolt seems to be english, rather than metric.

However, since it's a bolt and nut, it could rather easily be replaced with a metric bolt and nut. But as someone already said - once it's on, it's on.

[Isidore]

I also commented on this a while ago, the thread and Allen size is not metric. Also, that the bracket is rather poorly made and is made of steel which will cause all sorts of electrolytic corrosion issues, and when the paint is rubbed off by taking off and putting on the bag (mine is used as a briefcase) it will start to rust. An alternative bracket made out of sheet alloy would have been much moe in keeping with the quality of the whole machine. Looks like a bit of a rush job.

[SEGsby]

I would agree.

SEGsby

I also commented on this a while ago, the thread and Allen size is not metric. Also, that the bracket is rather poorly made and is made of steel which will cause all sorts of electrolytic corrosion issues, and when the paint is rubbed off by taking off and putting on the bag (mine is used as a briefcase) it will start to rust. An alternative bracket made out of sheet alloy would have been much moe in keeping with the quality of the whole machine. Looks like a bit of a rush job.

[gbrandwood]

Looks like a bit of a rush job.Perhaps the white bags, having had a little more time in development, might end up a little better designed?

[dale@thecoys.net]

Perhaps the white bags, having had a little more time in development, might end up a little better designed?

If so, somebody is sure to complain that they aren't interchangeable, and/or that the hardware is different, and/or that a different wrench is required.

[SEGsby]

If so, somebody is sure to complain that they aren't interchangeable, and/or that the hardware is different, and/or that a different wrench is required.

Talk about being negative...

SEGsby

[ryan_walters]

Talk about being negative...

SEGsby

Kind of ironic that you're talking about other people being negative about accessories.

[SEGsby]

I like the bag. Never said I didn't.

However, the bracket does have some issues with construction quality in it's welds, incompatible materials that may lead to corrosion, uses english measure and requires a hex wrench that does not come standard with the machine, nor the accessory itself.

While I do agree with others that these flaws could easily be improved, I disagree as to how much of a problem it actually represents; having used the bag since they were released.

The shortcomings do not take away from the utility and value of having the accessory, IMHO. Hopefully the product continues to improve based on customer feedback.

SEGsby

Kind of ironic that you're talking about other people being negative about accessories.

[dale@thecoys.net]

Talk about being negative...

SEGsby

That wasn't my intention.

Manufacturers must deal with customer expectation that the "same thing" that comes in different colors, is actually the same EXCEPT for the color.

Imagine if your next car - if it was black - came with small cupholders, and carpet floormats. But if it was white, it had larger cupholders and rubber floormats. And those were the only two choices.

Or imagine if you can get a Gen2 LSF bag that is 50% larger, has a built-in light, and a soft rubber bumper - but only in white. You can't get the smaller bag in white, and you can't get the bigger one in black.

I think that's unlikely to be the approach that Segway will take.

[gbrandwood]

It must be more than just the colour which has changed, it must be a different material or something. Or else why take so long to bring one out? A shortage of white material? It must be different material.

All you folks out there discussing the pros and cons of your accessories are lucky. Take pity on those of us who can't get our hands on them for love nor money! Bags, comfort mats, cargo kits, ramps... good or bad, gimme gimme gimme.

[SEGsby]

I recall it being mentioned here waaaaayyyy long ago, that the white plastic in the bag samples sent back from overseas couldn't be specified by the makers as to WHAT kind of plastic it was, or any of it's properties to Segway's satisfaction.

Testing showed that the white plastic was prone to cracking and could potentially injure someone on the sharp edges of the material.

As for not having access to Segway accessories-- I feel you pain. It is unfortunate that people are still waiting for parts they ordered. Do you have any ETAs for your area? Arrival dates seem different for different areas. *shrugs*

I think the last couple of things that have not come in yet here, are the Lower Cargo Frames and Accessory Bar (not counting the handle bar bumper or the Kickstand).

Hang in there.

SEGsby


It must be more than just the colour which has changed, it must be a different material or something. Or else why take so long to bring one out? A shortage of white material? It must be different material.

All you folks out there discussing the pros and cons of your accessories are lucky. Take pity on those of us who can't get our hands on them for love nor money! Bags, comfort mats, cargo kits, ramps... good or bad, gimme gimme gimme.

[SEGsby]

I just hope they continue to fine tune things as they get feedback from their userbase.

If the product evolves, I can see buying another one. I've already got noticible wear on the fabric side from riding...

SEGsby

That wasn't my intention.

Manufacturers must deal with customer expectation that the "same thing" that comes in different colors, is actually the same EXCEPT for the color.

Imagine if your next car - if it was black - came with small cupholders, and carpet floormats. But if it was white, it had larger cupholders and rubber floormats. And those were the only two choices.

Or imagine if you can get a Gen2 LSF bag that is 50% larger, has a built-in light, and a soft rubber bumper - but only in white. You can't get the smaller bag in white, and you can't get the bigger one in black.

I think that's unlikely to be the approach that Segway will take.

[wwhopper]

I have had one bag that the zipper came off of it's track - right from the beginning.

A brand new bag - that should not happen, so it is being used one one of the model machines.

[SEGsby]

Zippers are pretty tight on mine. I've had no problems with them. But I would send the defective bag back for replacement.

This way, they can track what fails-- which could improve future versions.

SEGsby

I have had one bag that the zipper came off of it's track - right from the beginning.

A brand new bag - that should not happen, so it is being used one one of the model machines.

[martinbogo]

I too have the handlebar bag holder. While it was surprising and and mildly inconveniencing that I had to go switch to another hex wrench from the toolbox ... that was solved by another quick dive into another box.

Just pop by your local hardware store, and buy a matching -metric- head stainless steel bolt with the same thread and pop it in. $1.76 at my local Orchard Supply Hardware store.

On the other hand, do like to take the accessory bag off from time to time and switch it for my lightbar and such .. so I think I might switch again to using a wingnut.

My $.02

[sholloway]

can you tell us the thread count and length of the one you got that works great? Thanx.

[SEGsby]

And everyone knows that you get another new hex size to worry about when you try to attach the Accessory Bar, right?

SEGsby

[ryan_walters]

And everyone knows that you get another new hex size to worry about when you try to attach the Accessory Bar, right?

SEGsby

Talk about being negative...

[SEGsby]

It's a fact that no one's mentioned here yet.

It appears that many of the new accessories do not come with tools, or have screws that fit the two "standard" wrenches that came with the base machine.

If there is any negativity in posting such information here, I'm going to guess it is probably being enhanced by your subjective interpetation. *hug*

Anyone else here purchase an i2 Accessory Bar?

It seems that if it's mounted straight off the bar (not up), that it (and whever you've attached to it) sticks out in front of the machine too much. Pointing the bar downwards limits access to the Handle Bar Bag.

The new bar comes with a warning sticker that describes potential safety issues if it is attached to the PT.

SEGsby

Talk about being negative...

[pam]

My original 167 came with (if I remember right) 4 hex keys. I went out and bought a soft handled T set by Husky that has probably 20 sizes. It was the best investment I have made re: the hex keys - it has all the wierd sizes (I believe the 4.5 was used on the 167, BTW) My hands just prefer dealing with a soft T bar, rather than those little keys. My Jeep didn't come with any tools, as I recall <G>.

Pam

[Desert_Seg]

It's a fact that no one's mentioned here yet.

It appears that many of the new accessories do not come with tools, or have screws that fit the two "standard" wrenches that came with the base machine.

If there is any negativity in posting such information here, I'm going to guess it is probably being enhanced by your subjective interpetation. *hug*

When you buy a car, do you get a tool set?

When you buy accessories for your car, do you get the tools to mount it?

When you buy something for your house, do you get tools to assemble it?

Why then, do you expect to get tools with a Segway?

Anyone else here purchase an i2 Accessory Bar?

It seems that if it's mounted straight off the bar (not up), that it (and whever you've attached to it) sticks out in front of the machine too much. Pointing the bar downwards limits access to the Handle Bar Bag.

The new bar comes with a warning sticker that describes potential safety issues if it is attached to the PT.

SEGsby

Yep, I have the accessory guard and it's mounted. I fully expected it to stick out like that. How else would it work?

Of course, if you don't have the bag you can always point it downwards, or upwards, or at other angles. Your choice!

Steven

[SEGsby]

When you buy a car, do you get a tool set?

Yep. Even my cheap Beetle comes with a tiny set of tools that include tiny generic philips and standard screwdrivers. It also includes tools that can jack the car up and help remove then remount full size tires.

If you purchase an even more expensive car, a wider pantheon of tools are generally included, such as this:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/bmw/540standard.htm

As you can see in the link above, some BMW's ship with rather nice tool sets that tuck away beautifully into the interior of the car... So clearly, the expectation of having tools included with a major purchase like this-- is not unreasonable at all.

First Aid Kits and sometimes Heart Defibrillators may also be included with a new vehicle purchase.


When you buy accessories for your car, do you get the tools to mount it?


Depends on the accessories, the manufacturer, and if the tool is specific to the product; such that it is unlikely to be a common philips or flat headed screwdriver. It is not unusual for allen wrenches to be included with many products. My 6-CD Changer I installed in my VW bug, came with it's own allen wrench for adjusting and locking the angle of the attachment brackets.


When you buy something for your house, do you get tools to assemble it?


All the time! Anyone who's ever shopped at Ikea knows you get an allen wrench with your purchase to help assemble it. You probably have one in your area:

http://www.ikeadubai.com/content/productsCat.asp?page=&searchString=&flashDetect=true

And the very desk I'm using to type this on, came with it's own allen wrenches. They do not fit the Seg, BTW.


Why then, do you expect to get tools with a Segway?


I think you're confused. The Segway does come with tools. That expectation is based on the experience of owning one.

But to be clear, I have no undue expectations that extra tools should come with the machine. But since the base machine did come with two wrenches and set a precedent; it's simply interesting to note that the new accessories did not appear to stick to the same sizes of tools we were initially provided.

However, when I did get a new battery, it did come with new bolts and it's own new allen wrench tool-- exact copies of ones I already had from the first time I bought my machine.

Expecting tools to ship with each unique accessory is probably more reasonable. For the high cost of these extra parts and the low cost of such a simple tool-- I can't really blame anyone for expressing their disappointment at not getting one with their purchase.


Yep, I have the accessory guard and it's mounted. I fully expected it to stick out like that. How else would it work?

Of course, if you don't have the bag you can always point it downwards, or upwards, or at other angles. Your choice!


If you're in an accident and you fall into the handlebars, then I don't expect good things to come of that orientation as brain meets metal. It's a choice, but not a good one with the current design that has slightly protruding but rounded corners on it.

And since I've already told you I have a bag-- mounting it downward is not a very useful option either.

Basically, the design of the bar is simply too long and looks like a clunky afterthought. The current design promotes snagging on turns, and unavoidable scraping while leaning the machine against surfaces to park; even if you have a front bag. If the bar was just a half inch shorter, it would greatly reduce the aggressive profile it projects while gliding, which is not too unlike a set of metal bull's horns at a gallop. I think that's the last kind of impression you want to leave when gliding around a skittish public that's historically shown fear of new things that show even a hint of aggression (unless it's a sports car).

Shortening the arms for the attachment bar would reduce the chances of getting it caught on things around you as you use the machine (think elevators), improve it's aesthetics, probably reduce the public's anxiety of being hit by the machine, and better protect whatever you have attached to it; like fragile light rigs that must stick out farther than the bar does.

I would like to see the "Bull's Horns" redesigned and pulled back into the profile of the rest of the machine more. God forbid I ever hit someone and they smack against the hard metal Accessory Bar, instead of the more collapsible and padded front bag...

And yeah, it would have been nice to have little allen wrenches with it, too. ;)

SEGsby

[Desert_Seg]

.... And yeah, it would have been nice to have little allen wrenches with it, too. ;)

SEGsby

One of the first things they taught us in law school was to never ask a question for which you did not know the answer. I walked right into that one!

As for the Accessory bar, yes, I too would like it a tad bit less aggressive but I now use it has a handle to pull the x2 :D.

Steven

[SEGsby]

Its okay. I think there can be many paths to the same goal, at the same time. :)

The best use for the accessory bar would indeed be a handle.

SEGsby


One of the first things they taught us in law school was to never ask a question for which you did not know the answer. I walked right into that one!

As for the Accessory bar, yes, I too would like it a tad bit less aggressive but I now use it has a handle to pull the x2 :D.

Steven

[gbrandwood]

Or to hang it on the wall in the Segway cloakroom?

[Isidore]

Many years ago large factories with big work forces (like shipyards for example) did not have individual lockers for employees' clothes and belongings. Instead you had a clothes hanger with some small trays for smaller items which was attached to a pulley on a high ceiling by a chain. You put your stuff on your hanger and raised it to the ceiling, out of reach of thieving fingers. The end of the chain was then padlocked to a fixed eye and your stuff was more or less safe for the day. I am trying to imagine a similar storage system for racks of segways- you put your jacket and other belongings over the Segway handlebars and the whole thing is lifted securely out of reach- you would need some power assistance but no padlock- you would control it from your infokey.

[cruiter]

I got mine yesterday. As I had my machine with me, Scott just moved the grips out a bit and attached it for me. It is adjusted slightly up and looks natural that way. Bag still is easly removable or installed. The warning sticker is just a plain butt ugly blemish, but peals off easly with no residue. I just need for the stand to come in to complete my package.

Now what am I going to mount on it??? Ray gun??, Lasar (metal burning type)??, 50 cal ??, really good horn ??, or maybe just move my dynolite from my helmet to the bar?. Whatever, it's pretty sturdy and looks like it was truely made with same craftsmanship as machine.



Anyone else here purchase an i2 Accessory Bar?

It seems that if it's mounted straight off the bar (not up), that it (and whever you've attached to it) sticks out in front of the machine too much. Pointing the bar downwards limits access to the Handle Bar Bag.

The new bar comes with a warning sticker that describes potential safety issues if it is attached to the PT.

SEGsby

[cmonkey]

http://www.pipersprecisionproducts.com/

[cruiter]

Hmm, those sound like they could be fun with the Avitar :cool: .http://www.pipersprecisionproducts.com/

[cmonkey]

Just think how fast you could clear pidgeons and seagulls off the boardwalk with a pair mounted on the cargo frame:D

Plastic pellets of course.... the steel ones are apparently only good for shredding TV sets.

[renevous]

hahah.. thats a good one.. after one month of gliding your segway.. there will have a feel possibilities

1) your arm biceps will be built and looks better
2) the leansteel will be bend
3) along the street you glide will have lots of victim hit by it.. by then you will be so well known and ppl will starts to give way to you..

ahhaha

as for the allen key you guys are finding to fixed it can be found in the states. I got mine 2 months back and fix it with a friend that is a engineer saying that this sort of allen key is not easy to find anywhere.. cause it is used mostly in the states. So ppl from other places will have a bit of trouble.. I suppose Inc should have included with it. Just like when you received a new set of segway it comes with allen keys that you need to fitted it.. I really wonder if my friend wouldn't have it.. i suppose my bag will have mould on it by now in the store room!!! :p :p :p

[SEGsby]

If you put the California Governer on there with one of these monited on a SEG, they will sell like hotcakes.

Of course, it's a bit much to mount on the Leanstear, but hey's it's Hollywood...

SEGsby

http://www.pipersprecisionproducts.com/

[KSagal]

Let's be realistic here... Wouldn't the recoil cause the seg to slow down?

That is unacceptable...