Robotic Muppets on Segways at Disney..

[SegwayUtah]

It looks like Disney has adopted Segways (RMPs, it appears) for their animatronic puppets to ride around California Disney parks autonomously!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-disney2mar02,0,3107781.story?coll=la-home-headlines

They're remote controlled, and quite funny. Very cool.

Chris

[QuadSquad]

It looks like Disney has adopted Segways (RMPs, it appears) for their animatronic puppets to ride around California Disney parks autonomously!

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-disney2mar02,0,3107781.story?coll=la-home-headlines

They're remote controlled, and quite funny. Very cool.

Chris

I See,

The Segway technology, Safe enough for the muppets to interact with the crowds at Disney but not people with disabilities.

It clearly brings into perspective Disney's opinion of our capacity to interact in public.

[Tarkus]

I See,

The Segway technology, Safe enough for the muppets to interact with the crowds at Disney but not people with disabilities.

It clearly brings into perspective Disney's opinion of our capacity to interact in public.

"animatronic" Muppet's....
Another sad display by the Mouse.

For the able bodied user it just shows the Segway as a novelty.
Bad for all Segway riders.

Be Big,
Alan

[Neelix]

"animatronic" Muppet's....
Another sad display by the Mouse.

For the able bodied user it just shows the Segway as a novelty.
Bad for all Segway riders.

Be Big,
Alan

Oh come off it. It's not a bad thing for PT riders, because it isn't a Personal Transporter.

It's an RMP, and it's doing exactly what it's designed to do: be a base for robotics applications.

Segway's dynamic stabilization technology, seemingly contrary to the belief around here, doesn't stop with the PTs. I didn't hear complaining when Wowee announced that they would be making a (since canceled) toy with Segway's SmartMotion technology.

I think that just because this is connected with "The Mouse", people cry foul. I may not agree with their decisions when it comes to PT use, but to chastise them for using another Segway product which has technology, not purpose, in common with the PT is ridiculous.

[QuadSquad]

Oh come off it. It's not a bad thing for PT riders, because it isn't a Personal Transporter.

I think that just because this is connected with "The Mouse", people cry foul. I may not agree with their decisions when it comes to PT use, but to chastise them for using another Segway product which has technology, not purpose, in common with the PT is ridiculous.

You miss the point entirely my Friend.

[SEGsby]

What a cool way for intellectual property to move around and mingle interactively with an audience.

SEGsby

[SegwayDan]

Gimme a break, man.

These things are positively controlled by trained EMPLOYEES--a far cry from visitors--even disabled visitors--on Segways in Disney parks. There are all kinds of (understandable) liability and public relations issues connected with allowing Segway use in such situations.

It's not the safeness of the technology. It's the "safeness" of the operator. Employees can get screened, selected, trained, and monitored. Not so with visitors, whether disabled or not.

Our time will come, but not "tomorrow." That's going to take a lot more Segway proliferation and general public acceptance. We're working on it, as most of us know.

In the mean time, I think this new phase of Disney animatronics should be seen as a step in the right direction. It's at least a significant new feather in Segay, Inc.'s hat and a new revenue source for them, and most likely an inspiration for other companies to use RMP technology.

[SegwayDan]

As corporate as Disney has become since Walt's day, its main saving grace is still its main "product": dreams--as in, "When you wish upon a star, your dreams come true," its theme song.

"Sad display?" Hardly. Rather, it's an enhancement on the dream theme, both fanciful and technological.

I grew up with Walt and his characters and stories. I have two grand kids now who haven't been to Disney World yet. The older four-year-old is coming down for a visit next month, and that's where we're going.

The only REALLY sad thing here is a life without dreams, one can easily get over-burdened with so many disappointments and injustices of today's "real" world. As "fake" as the Disney brand of dreams are to many, they're at least still somewhat inspiring for many more, which includes me and my family.

Take the Segway itself. It's a dream come true for me. I dreamed of owning one the moment I stepped up on one. And what about the dream of "flying?" That's a personal dream for most all of us, and one which most likely accounts for a lot of the thrill of what we know as gliding.

Disney is gradually embracing this dream, albeit with calculated "steps". These new animatroncs are important new steps along their path.

I've got no shortage of dreams myself, and I just celebrated my 57th birthday. My grandson and I (and family) are gonna have a blast next month. And I'll most likely take some pictures of these "sad displays."

"One man's ceiling is another man's floor," as the saying goes. You only have to change your mind to make the world a totally different place.

[Sven]

The view of Disney through rose colored glasses may be the stuff of dreams, but for those of us who have limited mobility, Disney is George Wallace blocking the school house door. The reality is that the Mouse is no friend of the disabled. And those who wear rose colored glasses when confronting an unwillingness to abide by the law are not friends of the disabled either.

[macgeek]

ya know, I support Draft, and I support disabled, but on this one your WAY OFF BASE... Because the corp a-holes at disney won't allow a segway into there park, does NOT mean they should be stormed, and there books burned.

Disney is introducing SEGWAY to MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people.
people who write laws, and people who BUY PRODUCTS.

I think its wonderful that they are finding more use for segway technology.
it means one day maybe. there will be more then 100 segways in a city of 6 million people.

Jonathan

[Tarkus]

ya know, I support Draft, and I support disabled, but on this one your WAY OFF BASE... Because the corp a-holes at disney won't allow a segway into there park, does NOT mean they should be stormed, and there books burned.

Disney is introducing SEGWAY to MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of people.
people who write laws, and people who BUY PRODUCTS.

I think its wonderful that they are finding more use for segway technology.
it means one day maybe. there will be more then 100 segways in a city of 6 million people.

Jonathan

Personal choice, I don't support Disney if possible. That's hard because they own almost everything.

Few that see a Segway at Disney or takes the tour buys one . The numbers will show that. The tours book months in advance and private Segway numbers are low.

and the laws are already there.

Why nobody sees this use, I know what it's designed for, as just
Goofy, pardon the pun.

I call it as I see it and this is just another way to show INC products as toys or novelties.

Unlike many I don't see all exposure good.

Good exposure, see Karls thread .
http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=14788

Be Big,
Alan

[IcanGlide]

I know that this has the potential to become another Disney "Yes they are, no they are not" type of thread, however, I like the use of the technology as displayed by the video. Just the programming alone is awesome. But the computers are doing just what they are told to do, just like your Segway is doing just what you tell it to do. Whether a Disney employee is highly trained or not is not the point, it doesn't take rocket science intelligence to operate a Segway.

The truth of it is, to me anyway, is that Disney is talking out of both sides of their mouth. This is what they told me when I asked them if I could use my Seg in their park:

At the Walt Disney World Resort, the safety of our Guests is our number
one priority. Unfortunately, the layout of our Parks and Resort areas,
as well as the large number of Guests, makes us unable to accommodate
two-wheeled vehicles. In most circumstances, maneuverability would be
limited and other Guests may not easily see or avoid these vehicles,
creating a potential safety concern either to the Guest themselves or
others.


While this may be irrelevant to most, it is not to those of us that are disabled. We just want to walk where you walk, and with the Segway, we can. Any motorized vehicle used among pedestrians is a "potential" safety concern, whether it is in a park or a parking lot. Common sense is the deciding factor. I grant you that any number of us can operate our Segs as safely as any Disney employee.

Again, I applaud the new use of the technology, but it also shows hyprocrisy on the part of Disney to me as well.

Frank

[JohnM]

Excuse me for steering the topic away from the endless Disney-is-anti-disabled debate.....but where is there anything that states that this Muppet thingy uses Segway technology, RMP or otherwise? Just cuz it balances on 2 non-tandem wheels doesn't make it a Segway. Heck, anyone with a Lego (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3vDnwwBmgQ) kit can build a two wheeled, self-balancing robot. The Disney imagineers are just as clever as anyone here in New Hampshire.

[SegwayUtah]

John,

The gray Segway RMP base with white reflective sticker on the front gives it away :)

Plus the fact that it balances incredibly well--which is either a multi-million dollar investment for Disney for a specialized device, or Segway-built technology.

Chris

[SEGsby]

The lego bot easily falls down though.

SEGsby

Excuse me for steering the topic away from the endless Disney-is-anti-disabled debate.....but where is there anything that states that this Muppet thingy uses Segway technology, RMP or otherwise? Just cuz it balances on 2 non-tandem wheels doesn't make it a Segway. Heck, anyone with a Lego (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3vDnwwBmgQ) kit can build a two wheeled, self-balancing robot. The Disney imagineers are just as clever as anyone here in New Hampshire.

[macgeek]

The lego bot easily falls down though.

SEGsby

Lego's wobble but they don't fall down™

Maybe that was Segways....

:)

Jonathan

[macgeek]

In the video - There are two "stands" in case of a problem the unit will no fall over crushing any 'guests' as well as itself.


Jonathan

[JohnM]

John,

The gray Segway RMP base with white reflective sticker on the front gives it away :)

Plus the fact that it balances incredibly well--which is either a multi-million dollar investment for Disney for a specialized device, or Segway-built technology.

Chris

Does that mean that Beaker's pedals are non-functional? Too bad.

[SEGsby]

When talking park liabilities, it's wise to have a backup plan if there is a failure.

SEGsby

In the video - There are two "stands" in case of a problem the unit will no fall over crushing any 'guests' as well as itself.


Jonathan

[SegwayDan]

I know that this has the potential to become another Disney "Yes they are, no they are not" type of thread, however, I like the use of the technology as displayed by the video. Just the programming alone is awesome. But the computers are doing just what they are told to do, just like your Segway is doing just what you tell it to do. Whether a Disney employee is highly trained or not is not the point, it doesn't take rocket science intelligence to operate a Segway.

Yes it is the point, as an employee is more under their control than not, which is NOT the case for their guests. They can't rely on the ability of many to control their Segways when there is yet the real possibility that some may abuse Segway use to the end of people getting hurt.

The truth of it is, to me anyway, is that Disney is talking out of both sides of their mouth. This is what they told me when I asked them if I could use my Seg in their park:

At the Walt Disney World Resort, the safety of our Guests is our number
one priority. Unfortunately, the layout of our Parks and Resort areas,
as well as the large number of Guests, makes us unable to accommodate
two-wheeled vehicles. In most circumstances, maneuverability would be
limited and other Guests may not easily see or avoid these vehicles,
creating a potential safety concern either to the Guest themselves or
others.


While this may be irrelevant to most, it is not to those of us that are disabled. We just want to walk where you walk, and with the Segway, we can. Any motorized vehicle used among pedestrians is a "potential" safety concern, whether it is in a park or a parking lot. Common sense is the deciding factor. I grant you that any number of us can operate our Segs as safely as any Disney employee.

Again, I applaud the new use of the technology, but it also shows hyprocrisy on the part of Disney to me as well.

Frank

Thanks for quoting Disney's stance on the matter. I know it's difficult to be objective when you yourself are disabled and have actually tried or at least wanted to glide in a Disney park.

I have somewhat the same feeling about wanting to glide into my local grocery store especially when I only need a couple things and I know that I won't be a hindrance to anyone. I know as well that I'm a competent, careful, and considerate glider.

But I understand and don't contest Publix, Inc.'s corporate stance against letting me "glide inside." It's a liability issue, nothing more.

I reiterate: it IS an important point of difference between a Disney employee operating an RMP-enabled device, and being specifically and individually qualified in operating it safely, and any given--even any given
qualified disabled--visitor operating their own Segway in a Disney park.

I'm for reasonable accommodations for disabled. Didn't DRAFT get some sort of permission or at least concessions towards permitting Segway use at the San Diego Zoo? My wife has Muscular Distrophy, and we'd LOVE to be able to glide in such privately owned areas.

But Disney parks seem to me to be admittedly important exceptions to the potential acceptance of Segway use for the fact of the sheer magnitude of its crowds and the broad variety of the characteristics of its many pathways and passageways, as alluded to in its stated response to you.

In this case and at this still relatively early stage in the "Segway Era", it's still a consideration of the greater good of the greater number on which Disney is formulating its policy. I think it's understandable.

I also think that even it can change. But if and when it does, it will most likely be based on a perceived greater and greater majority of its customers' collective sentiment in favor of Segway use. And that will most likely follow substantially behind such a changing sentiment amongst the public at large.

[polo_pro]

Again, I applaud the new use of the technology, but it also shows hyprocrisy on the part of Disney to me as well.

You final statement sums up my feelings. And IMHO, beside legal challenges, this situation also has to be shown to the public.

I have thought of another interim solution for disabled folks wanting to make their feeling known. I'm thinking more of the situation where disabled folks have to go to Disneyland/Disneyworld due to younger familly members that insist. How would the Mouse react to a person holding/attaching large signs calling attention to the hipocracy as they're pushed around on Disney provided wheelchairs? Slogans like

....."I'd like to be standing tall on my segway, but the Mouse insists I sit here looking at your butt"...

or

....."The Mouse won't let me look at you eye to eye on my Segway, but relegates me to being a second class citizen down here"...

or

...."I'd like to get around on my own independently on my Segway, but the Mouse insists I be pushed around by others"...

Do you think the Mouse would expel you from their property for expressing your opinion on their property? Would this get the attention of the local media??

ps - I want to emphasize that I'm not disabled. I'm sure my above statements don't accurately capture the frustration that disabled folks feel.

[IcanGlide]

I'm not a lawyer, but this liability thing just goes beyond me. I know that it is a growing cycle in this country to sue first and ask questions later, but somewhere common sense has to be allowed back in. I understand that if John Q. Business installs a handrail, doesn't maintain it, and when I lean on it for whatever reason, fall and break something, JQB is liable for my medical bills. I can't see where JQB would be responsible for anything that I did to one of their customers, intentional or not. I, on the other hand, would be the one responsible. It's the old swimming pool sign that reads "Not responsible for accidents." And if I'm misbehaving, kick me out.

Are public parks, businesses, stores or what have you not responsible for people that operate three and four wheeled EPAMD's? That is what I am trying to wrap my mind around. They are not questioned whatsoever, so what is the deal with the Segway? All of us know that it's smaller, more maneuverable, and more visible than a chair, why the stigma? New technology phobia?

Also, is JQB responsible or not responsible for the conduct of their customers or visitors in their parking lots? Bigger, more powerful machines interacting with pedestrians, what's the difference?

I challenge anyone with a three or four-wheeled scooter to enter our local Michael's or for that matter, any clothing store. It's mighty tight in there. I was in a building last summer on our military base with a large croud of people. I was on my Segway and the crowd was literally shoulder to shoulder. Sometimes I would have to hold position for five or more minutes before I could move--never mashed a foot or anything else.

Disney points to the training as legitimizing Segway use on their grounds by their employees, and if that is the only thing holding us back, I say set up the class. I'll pay their fee. We had to go through a boating safety course and pass a test to get the "V" on our drivers' license before we could legally operate a boat, and if that is what it takes to prove our ability to operate our Segways--bring it on.

I know we are beating this dead horse again, but to me that's the value of this forum, to get different viewpoints from all over the globe and explore the strengths and weaknesses of our arguments. Nothing personal.

Oh, and yes, from what I've read on this forum, the San Diego Zoo does allow Segway use by the disabled on their property--thanks to DRAFT.

Again, the video was great.

Frank

[IcanGlide]

PLO

Those are very good slogans, and that would probably help in this "difference of opinion" conflict. I'm not going to throw rocks at Disney, I've enjoyed the works of their studios for my entire life. And I'm not interested in taking my Segway on the Runaway Mine Train, I just want to tour the park. We could be, as has been stated on this forum before, a new technology thing where it will take some time for people to become accustomed to the reality of the Segway. Heck, I still have people run me down and ask "What the *&%$ is it and where did you get it?"

I believe that in time that this will get worked out.

Frank

[SEGsby]

...
Do you think the Mouse would expel you from their property for expressing your opinion on their property?

Yes. In a heartbeat. DisneyLand and DisneyWorld have every right to regulate how people utilize their property.

Would this get the attention of the local media??

No more than when someone dies on a ride that malfunctions. After a couple days, people forget about it and keep riding the rides.

SEGsby

[hellphish]

I really really really really would like those wheels.