I2 trim piece LEDs [Archive]

ryan_walters

12-28-2006, 08:43 PM

I know it's been done before, but I thought I'd post how I put LED's in the LSF's bottom trim piece.

I don't have pictures of the batteries, but I simply took 4 AA NiMh that I had lying around here, carefully (quickly) soldered them in series (end to end) with about 1/2" between. Then put them into some heavy duty heatshrink to protect them. With the space between the batteries, they can still curve to the shape of the LSF, and the heatshrink also stops the wires from fatigue. I found they still moved around inside the LSF, so I wrapped some foam around the heatshrink to give them a little more size.

For a switch I double sided foam taped a simple toggle switch also covered in heatshrink near the top of the LSF.

Both the batteries and the switch wires exit at the bottom. Here's a picture of that:

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_I2_LED_wiring.JPG (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/I2_LED_wiring.JPG)

The connector going through the hole to the outside will be for charging, while the other connector will hookup to the LED's. And yes, that is Cat5 pairs I used (current is quite low). The orange pair comes directly off of the battery. The blue pair is the SPST switch.

And here's the LED wiring:

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_I2_LEDs.JPG (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/I2_LEDs.JPG)

The leds themselves are simply hot-glued in. Each resistor for the leds is soldered onto the 'negative' side of the led; the bare wire in the photo is actually one side of the resistor. The 'positive' sides are connected using red, or yellow (because I ran out of spare red) wire. Then a wire from each 'side' goes to the connector.

Then the trim piece gets set back into the LSF with the connector attached:

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_I2_LEDs_installed.JPG (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/I2_LEDs_installed.JPG)

The the whole LSF gets mounted back onto the segway. Batteries charged up. And it's now ready to test.

Here's two pictures of the final result: (yes I've insulated my batteries for winter)

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs1.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs1.jpg)

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs2.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs2.jpg)

I think it'll show up quite well at night, even with the 'headlight' on.

The whole thing draws around 250ma. With my 2300 mah batteries, I should easily get 8 hours.

gbrandwood

12-28-2006, 09:05 PM

Cool. Do you have to remove the medallion/frame to recharge the batteries?

ryan_walters

12-28-2006, 09:16 PM

Cool. Do you have to remove the medallion/frame to recharge the batteries?

No, in the first picture, the connector that comes outside the LSF is for charging. And doesn't run through the switch of course. The other connector plugs into the led assembly, but is switched power.

In the second to last picture, if you view the fullsize version, you can just see the red connector at the bottom.

gbrandwood

12-28-2006, 09:32 PM

Ah sorry, I've re-read the original post and it is now clear. An excellent modification. Your white Segway is definitely looking better and better (apart from the insulation!). Very cool. Right from the start I thought the medallion was a light and was a little disappointed that it wasn't. Good stuff.

bystander

12-28-2006, 09:52 PM

Your white Segway is definitely looking better and better (apart from the insulation!).I think it's going to be looking very good when all the mud and muck spashed up on the insulation gets peeled off easily by removing the insulation, instead of the more difficult prospect of cleaning the underside the usual way!

ryan_walters

12-31-2006, 09:37 AM

I put some bright red LED's to good use.

I installed them on the back of the segway. No need to buy segway's tail light now, especially as I think mine are brighter.. There's 4 leds on each side, in a 2x2 configuration. All 8 tail light leds only added 100ma current because the red leds need less forward voltage (than the white), I am able to run 2 in series with each other. That means I'm only drawing the current of 4 leds.

Here's a picture..

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs3.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs3.jpg)

I think it'll keep my visibility up at least..

Now I'm thinking of adding light on the bottom, for a 'hover' type look. Don't know what color though. More red? Maybe blue?

gbrandwood

12-31-2006, 09:46 AM

That looks great! How did you stick the LEDs on? A close up in day light, with the lights off would be handy (if you get a chance).

For your hover effect - green might be nice, or the blue. But no more red as it won't stand out as much.

I've avoided putting lights on my seg for long enough. You've inspired me to have a go.

Sal

12-31-2006, 09:51 AM

Are all your LED's powered by the batteries behind the medallion? I'd love to see pictures of the wiring running to the rear LEDs. I have a black i2, and I have never really modded my Segs, apart from fender vinyl on my first 167 WAY back when... this may be time to start customizing.

BTW, I agree with Gareth's observations about the hover effect.

-Sal

ryan_walters

12-31-2006, 10:22 AM

Here's a closeup of the LEDs. Their simply mounted with hot glue again. It holds well enough, but can be removed fairly easily, fairly cleanly too.

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs4.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs4.jpg)

Here's the wires going from the front to the back. To get to the other side, I went between the batteries, then back.

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs5.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs5.jpg)

And how I get power from the batteries in the LSF.

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs6.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs6.jpg)

When I take the insulation off the batteries, I'll have to redo part of how the wires are running. Maybe I'll think of a better way by then..

Sal

12-31-2006, 10:29 AM

Thanks Ryan, that's absolutely fantastic work! Thanks for posting. Have you in your gliding experience had any of your lights loosen up, fall, due to bumps, etc?

The more I take a look at your pictures, it seems as though the new platform's nooks and crevices were ready-made for such light mounting! Again, fantastic! (rep points for ya)

-Sal

ryan_walters

12-31-2006, 10:46 AM

Since putting the LED's on it, I haven't had much chance to get out. We just got a nice bit more snow, so until the sidewalks get cleared again, segging isn't much fun. I end up coming to a couple blocks I have to walk across in RBM. Some snow I can ride across no problem, some I have problems with. I think it's the temperature. It's been fairly warm with it snowing right around the freezing mark. Snow at that temperature is quite wet, more slippery, and has a lot of resistance when trying to go through it. It doesn't take much for one wheel to be 'dragged' down in speed, causing an unwanted turn. If it's colder, the snow is 'fluffier', lighter, and drier. It doesn't drag your wheels as much, and is all round much easier to manage.

But I don't imagine I'll have a problem with the LED's coming loose. They're in there pretty good.

SEGsby

12-31-2006, 02:09 PM

Blue for hovering is an excellent choice.

SEGsby

Sal

12-31-2006, 04:12 PM

Blue for hovering is an excellent choice.

SEGsby

DHugger had a blue halo below one of his first Segs, if I'm not mistaken, and it looked WAY cool!

I think MacGeek also has a light beneath his rig.

-Sal

stinggray

12-31-2006, 08:06 PM

If your looking to pimp your ride, check out these fluorescent lamps.
http://www.bgmicro.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=89
Who knows maybe some pic soon.

bystander

01-01-2007, 03:25 AM

DHugger had a blue halo below one of his first Segs, if I'm not mistaken, and it looked WAY cool!

I think MacGeek also has a light beneath his rig.

-SalYou might be thinking of this:

Blue Ground Effect Light (http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=8825&highlight=blue)

Many pics in that thread have dead links, but the first one still seems to be live on the post.

As I recall, later when Stan upgraded to Saphion, the reduced ground clearance eventually caused one of the fluorescent tubes to break when gliding over an obstacle.

Instead of tubes, one might be able to do something with discrete LEDs pointing out of the air vent holes of the Saphion packs. Tubes won't fit well behind the holes because of the internal bracing behind the holes - unless you care to dremel away some of the plastic.

ryan_walters

01-01-2007, 04:20 AM

I did think of individual leds in the holes at the edge of the batteries. Problem with that is that my insulation covers that up. I could still do it in the summer time when I don't need the insulation, but it's light so late in the summer time, it wouldn't be as visible as much. In the winter though, with it dark by 4:30, I'm almost always out when it's dark.

The middle pic of my last post showing the bottom of the seg near the tire shows a flat plastic part that looks perfect for mounting led's too. I wasn't thinking normal 5mm leds, but these:

http://www.luxeonstar.com/images/k2-star.jpg

More info here: www.luxeonstar.com (http://www.luxeonstar.com)

Up to 120 lumens is pretty bright. I was thinking of the standard luxeon star (blue). 16 lumens of blue light at 350ma. I'm thinking more than one of course. Tuesday I'll have to call our local electronics store and see which ones they had in stock.

There's more than enough height from the flat plastic to the bottom of the batteries. The Luxeon Star is about 7mm high. About 1/4". The low point on the seg would still be the batteries.

bystander

01-01-2007, 05:16 PM

The luxeons require heat sinking to use at full power. For "ground effect" lighing, since the light is directed primarily at the ground (and these LEDs are on the expensive side), it may be more trouble than it's worth to run at full power anyway. In winter, the heat dissipation may not be much of an issue, but for all-weather use the luxeons may be better off being mounted on a strip of aluminum to keep them cool in warm weather. The chassis of the PT might be used as a heat sink, but it would be better for the LED if the paint were to be scraped off underneath it to provide a better heat conduit.

If you're still interested in mounting LEDs from the ventilation holes in the battery packs, you might consider the following.

As for the insulation covering the holes, I would consider putting the LEDs in the holes, taping the insulation at the margin of the ventilated area (cutting it in half and removing the center 2 inches, then taping over some clear plastic material where the gap is, to avoid splashes from mucking up the LED circuitry.

Here's a sketch:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13270/window.png

Profile view, black is the battery pack, green is the insulating sheet, red is some duck (aka "duct") tape, blue is some clear plastic. In the top image, the insulation is taped to one pack in reverse. In the middle image the insulation is folded back over the pack. In the bottom image the insulation application is repeated on the other pack, then a clear piece of plastic is taped over the area with the LEDs in the ventilation holes, and more duck tape is added to secure the clear plastic. Attaching the clear plastic to both pieces of insulation with tape allows some tension to occur so that the insulation can be pulled taught and still seal well up against the bottom of the battery packs. If some clear packing tape is on hand, it could be used in place of the clear plastic and duck tape to hold the pieces of insulation together. If it is desireable to easily remove the insulation from time to time, the first piece of duck tape between the pack and the insulation can be omitted.

KSagal

01-01-2007, 05:43 PM

I have had undercarriage lights on both machines...

Stan and Jonathan have had them as well, and Stan's were the first I saw, back in '04.

I believe we have all had neon tubes at least at one point. I have moved onto LEDs, and if I remember correctly, Jonathan was the first to use banks of LEDs instead of the neon tubes...

I also feel that the primary place that energy can go when leaving a battery is into the light you are trying to create, or into heat which is a wastefull byproduct, and therefore something to avoid, if you can.

Many of the very high output LEDs generate a great deal of heat, which is not efficient use of battery, in my opinion...

You may consider a breadboard, inside the vent holes of the battery, with properly spaced LEDs. It is at least worth considering...

I have used two banks of light. I use green in front, and red behind. I have even over heard people argue about what light is under the seg...

Photos are in the old archive. I'll have to see what I can come up with, or post new ones...

Dwarf84396

01-01-2007, 10:25 PM

Ryan,

I love your idea, and if you don't mind, I'm thinking of copying it exactly to add some more light to the machine (and maybe even add another set of 8 white lights to the front live you've done the red to the back). I just have a few questions:

How exactly do you charge the batteries that are in the LSF?
Do you happen to have a parts list available for one to use?
How well sealed do you think this is from the elements?
Am I asking too many questions?

Thanks!

ryan_walters

01-01-2007, 11:15 PM

Ryan,

I love your idea, and if you don't mind, I'm thinking of copying it exactly to add some more light to the machine (and maybe even add another set of 8 white lights to the front live you've done the red to the back). I just have a few questions:

That's a good idea. Might do that myself.

How exactly do you charge the batteries that are in the LSF?

See post #1 and #3 above. If you're asking which charger, I have RC chargers that peak-detect charge NiCd, and NiMh.

Do you happen to have a parts list available for one to use?

No, but I can put one together..

4x NiMh AA's.
White LEDS are NTE 5mm Part Number: NTE30045 little over $2 ea.
Red LEDS are NTE 5mm Part Number: NTE30041 around $0.30 ea.

The resistors I got for the leds ended up driving them a little hard. So far they're still working, but I'd recommend slightly higher value:
82 ohm 1/4w for White LEDS
56 ohm 1/4w for red LEDS (TWO RED's in SERIES with this resistor)

Various sizes of Heatshrink, solder, hot-glue, etc.
Ohh, and some kind of switch to turn them on and off.

How well sealed do you think this is from the elements?

Electrically, everything is 'sealed' with heatshrink. Physically, things are either hot-glued, or taped in place. It would be possible I suppose to knock things loose, but fairly unlikely. Even if something happened, worst case scenario are the leds simply not working.

Dwarf84396

01-02-2007, 07:57 PM

See post #1 and #3 above. If you're asking which charger, I have RC chargers that peak-detect charge NiCd, and NiMh.
Do you have any specific recommendations for RC chargers? And, I'm guessing, I should expect to have to pay around $50 for a good charger?

... ... I just had a crazy idea, do you think it would be possible to steal from the Segway's AC input, and have the RC charger onboard ...

And, even more questions, just because I'm still a bit unsure of my electrical abilities...

299

Would this be correct?

Ok, and now to the LEDs:
I was looking at Hebei I.T. (http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/) for LEDs (probably 520MW7C (http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=leds.5mm) for white and 510PR2C (http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=leds.5mm.GaAl) for red). The only problem with Hebei is that you have to have a 25$ minimum order ... and that the LEDs are 11.8c per unit for white and 16.7c per unit for red ... it would take more than a few to get that minimum order fulfilled!

But, onto some calculations... given that battery pack above, and considering all LEDs are wired in parallel (with the packages shown below), would the resistors be proper values?

300

Ok, hopefully that will be enough for the time being ... I'd just want to get all of this right before I decide to try to purchase anything ...

ryan_walters

01-02-2007, 09:58 PM

Do you have any specific recommendations for RC chargers? And, I'm guessing, I should expect to have to pay around $50 for a good charger?

... ... I just had a crazy idea, do you think it would be possible to steal from the Segway's AC input, and have the RC charger onboard ...

Any charger that can charge 4 AA's will work as long as you dont have to 'insert' them into the charger. I can have a look later.

I wouldn't touch the segways charging circuitry. It is possible, but not something I would mess with. Not worth it.

Would this be correct?

Your battery setup above gives you 6v at 4.6ah. Putting cells in series increases your voltage only. Putting them in parallel increases your capacity only.

You're ok to run parallel packs like this during discharge, but they should be charged separately, NOT in parallel. Kind of a hastle. I would just use bigger cells if you need more than 2500mah of a AA NiMh.

Ok, and now to the LEDs:
I was looking at Hebei I.T. (http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/) for LEDs (probably 520MW7C (http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=leds.5mm) for white and 510PR2C (http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=leds.5mm.GaAl) for red). The only problem with Hebei is that you have to have a 25$ minimum order ... and that the LEDs are 11.8c per unit for white and 16.7c per unit for red ... it would take more than a few to get that minimum order fulfilled!

But, onto some calculations... given that battery pack above, and considering all LEDs are wired in parallel (with the packages shown below), would the resistors be proper values?

Ok, hopefully that will be enough for the time being ... I'd just want to get all of this right before I decide to try to purchase anything ...

Those LED's look pretty good if they've only $0.12 and $0.17 each.

As for resistors, according to the datasheets,

for the white one (520MW7C), with NiMh 4AA source voltage, use 91ohm 1/4w 5%

for the red one, I'd use the 520PR2C in your list. It has a higher viewing angle, which would be more what you want for rear lights. Also, the lower the angle (tighter beam), the higher the mcd brightness number all things being equal. Think of the mcd as an intensity rating, which will be inflated with a highly focused beam.

520PR2C: with 4AA source voltage, use 150ohm 1/4w 5%. OR because the red led's need less than half of the voltage we have, you can save a little power by running two LED's in series, with a different resistor to compensate. Use 68ohm 1/4w 5% ONLY if two are in series. In the first case, one red led draws 30ma max. In the second case, two red leds draw 30ma max, saving power, but you have to run them in pairs.

I came up with the resistor values based on forward voltage versus current graphs on their datasheets, and based on max voltage you'll get hot off the charger (6v max, 4.8v nominal for 4xNiMh). Feel free to use higher resistor values if you want, they just won't be quite as bright.

Dwarf84396

01-02-2007, 11:31 PM

Your battery setup above gives you 6v at 4.6ah. Putting cells in series increases your voltage only. Putting them in parallel increases your capacity only.

You're ok to run parallel packs like this during discharge, but they should be charged separately, NOT in parallel. Kind of a hastle. I would just use bigger cells if you need more than 2500mah of a AA NiMh.
Ah, ok. The only reason that I was looking a such a bigger set of rechargeable batteries is just to improve battery life, but, taking a look at it, if I was to run 16 white LEDs at 20mA and 4 sets of two red LEDs at 30mA, I'd still have a run time on the 4 NiMH batteries of 5 1/4 hours, which is more than enough... and, hopefully, 16 front facing white LEDs should provide enough light coupled with one of the 5W LED Dinotte headlights from Segway :D

ryan_walters

01-05-2007, 04:43 AM

I don't have pictures of the batteries, but I simply took 4 AA NiMh that I had lying around here, carefully (quickly) soldered them in series (end to end) with about 1/2" between. Then put them into some heavy duty heatshrink to protect them. With the space between the batteries, they can still curve to the shape of the LSF, and the heatshrink also stops the wires from fatigue. I found they still moved around inside the LSF, so I wrapped some foam around the heatshrink to give them a little more size.

I re-wired some of the led wiring to a slightly thicker gauge. I had the batteries out anyway, so here's some pictures:

Click for fullsze:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_I2_LED_batteries1.JPG (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/I2_LED_batteries1.JPG)

Click for fullsze:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_I2_LED_batteries2.JPG (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/I2_LED_batteries2.JPG)

ryan_walters

01-05-2007, 04:44 AM

I finished up the 'ground effect' downwards pointing LEDS.

I did end up using the luxeon star 'blue' led at 16 lumens. It turns out (to my eyes at least) that there's a fair bit of green in it. I would have been better off with the 'royal blue' instead.

While they do have to be heatsunk, they don't need alot of heatsink. In the below picture, after 2 hours of them being on, and aluminum is just barely above ambient temperature. The resistors I oversized on purpose. I only 'needed' 1w, but used 2w. They get a little warm, but you can very easily 'hang on' to them indefinately.

Click for fullsze:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs7.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs7.jpg)

I took a picture from above, with all the lights in my room off. You can see how even the fenders are slightly visible from 'ambient' light from the leds. I think the AA batteries were nearing the end of their charge in this picture too, as the red leds on the back were a little dim. The battery insulation blocks some of the 'middle' coverage both front and back, as it sticks down a bit more than the batteries themselves. Should be a little better in the summer.

Click for fullsze:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs8.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs8.jpg)

Dwarf84396

01-05-2007, 08:34 PM

Just wondering, but do you have the aluminum screwed directly into the spacer piece?

ryan_walters

01-05-2007, 09:30 PM

No, just exterior double sided foam mounting tape. Very strong once it's pushed on. I'll probably end up bending the aluminum to get them off.

Dwarf84396

01-05-2007, 09:46 PM

Ah, cool.

<randomIdeaMode>Would it be possible to have a small aluminum square on the front and back of the fenders, and have some of those 1W White and Red LEDs mounted? ... (me and my random ideas)</randomIdeaMode>

ryan_walters

01-07-2007, 06:07 AM

Yes, I suppose, but I think they'd be too bright. The ones I have are too bright to be comfortable to look at directly. There's quite a bit of light coming out of the led, which is a very small area. That makes the light concentration very high in that one spot. Pointed at the ground, you don't see the actual led's light until after it's hit the ground.

In comparison, an HID light puts out more light, but the area that emmits the light is much larger and therefore not as intense when looking at it.

Plus in the daytime wouldn't they look kind of strange on the front / back of the fenders? My leds don't really stand out in the daytime.

BillPaxton

01-08-2007, 10:12 PM

Ryan, where are you sticking the batteries? I powered mine with 9v's but it was just not practical. I really just want to put two white luxions on the front of my fenders and reds on back, but I don't know where I will put all the batteries. I also may do some Karl style toggles on my handlebar, so maybe I can put them in a cylendar and stuff them into control bar somehow.. gonna take alot of wire & solder...

Yes, I suppose, but I think they'd be too bright. The ones I have are too bright to be comfortable to look at directly. There's quite a bit of light coming out of the led, which is a very small area. That makes the light concentration very high in that one spot. Pointed at the ground, you don't see the actual led's light until after it's hit the ground.

In comparison, an HID light puts out more light, but the area that emmits the light is much larger and therefore not as intense when looking at it.

Plus in the daytime wouldn't they look kind of strange on the front / back of the fenders? My leds don't really stand out in the daytime.

ryan_walters

01-09-2007, 02:34 AM

Ryan, where are you sticking the batteries? I powered mine with 9v's but it was just not practical. I really just want to put two white luxions on the front of my fenders and reds on back, but I don't know where I will put all the batteries. I also may do some Karl style toggles on my handlebar, so maybe I can put them in a cylendar and stuff them into control bar somehow.. gonna take alot of wire & solder...

At the top of the thread, I state the batteries are put into the bottom part of the LSF. There's pictures of the batteries in heatshrink and foam a few posts up. It doesn't take alot of wire, as the batteries are right at the bottom of the LSF, close to the hole behind the medallion. The switch needs just enough to go up near the handle bars. If you choose to have the switch accessible while riding of course. There is a bit of soldering, but using heatshrink instead of electrical tape makes things smaller, and neater, but also takes longer, etc, but also adds durability.

I have changed the wiring coming out of the LSF since the first pics. I'll try and get some recent pictures soon.

BillPaxton

01-09-2007, 01:37 PM

LOL - thanks - I saw that and even looked at the picture of them soldered end to end and heat-shrunk but I didn't realize what it was I was looking at...sorry for the mental lapse there!
At the top of the thread, I state the batteries are put into the bottom part of the LSF. There's pictures of the batteries in heatshrink and foam a few posts up. It doesn't take alot of wire, as the batteries are right at the bottom of the LSF, close to the hole behind the medallion. The switch needs just enough to go up near the handle bars. If you choose to have the switch accessible while riding of course. There is a bit of soldering, but using heatshrink instead of electrical tape makes things smaller, and neater, but also takes longer, etc, but also adds durability.

I have changed the wiring coming out of the LSF since the first pics. I'll try and get some recent pictures soon.

ryan_walters

01-09-2007, 08:54 PM

Here's a pic of how I currently have the LSF setup.

Click for fullsize:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs9.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs9.jpg)

Coming out of the LSF: Red & Black are the batteries. Pair of yellows are the switch. The connector inside the LSF (for medallion leds) and the one that's hooked up outside the LSF (right, and for rear, and bottom facing leds) are running through the switch. The one outside the LSF that's not hooked up (left) is wiring directly into the batteries, not going through the switch for charging.

Hope this makes sense.

JimNPHX

01-31-2007, 12:14 AM

I took a picture from above, with all the lights in my room off. You can see how even the fenders are slightly visible from 'ambient' light from the leds. I think the AA batteries were nearing the end of their charge in this picture too, as the red leds on the back were a little dim. The battery insulation blocks some of the 'middle' coverage both front and back, as it sticks down a bit more than the batteries themselves. Should be a little better in the summer.

Click for fullsze:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_Ryans_Segway_LEDs8.jpg (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/Ryans_Segway_LEDs8.jpg)[/QUOTE]

This is way too cool to not have. My problem is (other than I have no idea about what most of you guys are saying ???) that I do not have the time to do something like this.
Ryan, any chance of you putting a kit together and selling? If not you, anyone else?? I would want the hoover lights (purple if available) and the red rear lights. The LSF light(s) look nice but do they wash out the hoover lights?

Thanks
Jim

ryan_walters

01-31-2007, 12:42 AM

Ryan, any chance of you putting a kit together and selling? If not you, anyone else?? I would want the hoover lights (purple if available) and the red rear lights. The LSF light(s) look nice but do they wash out the hoover lights?

Thanks
Jim

All that a kit could contain would be the parts. One would still have to wire everything up in / on their own seg. This part is probably where people would have trouble if anywhere. Basic soldering skills required.

For the luxeon stars that I used, these are the colors they come in: Blue Red Cyan Red-Orange Amber Green Royal-Blue White

I got the blue, although a lot of times they look more green that blue. I should have gotten royal-blue I suppose.. I also got the 'lambertian' emmiting pattern, which is very much a 'flood' type 'beam'. Emits light all the way out to about 170 deg. I've been thinking about the 'batwing' style, which directs most of it's light out at about 45 deg if I remember right. Would keep more of the light on the ground around the immediate area of the seg instead of 'spilling' out way forward, and way backwards.

You can see a bit of a white spot on the ground in front of my segway in the picture above. The white leds in the medallion don't really wash out anything else. Plus the white leds on front aren't really there to illuminate anything, they're there to be seen directly. If anything, the ground effect leds wash out the rest.

byped

01-31-2007, 01:02 AM

I just sprang for a couple of the red batwing LED's. I particularly liked them based on the forward voltage range being equivelent of 2 typical rechargable batteries. They also throw of quite a few extra lumens as well.

Now I just need to find some time to mount'm up with a couple AA's. I'll post pics whenever I get them done.

All that a kit could contain would be the parts. One would still have to wire everything up in / on their own seg. This part is probably where people would have trouble if anywhere. Basic soldering skills required.

For the luxeon stars that I used, these are the colors they come in: Blue Red Cyan Red-Orange Amber Green Royal-Blue White

I got the blue, although a lot of times they look more green that blue. I should have gotten royal-blue I suppose.. I also got the 'lambertian' emmiting pattern, which is very much a 'flood' type 'beam'. Emits light all the way out to about 170 deg. I've been thinking about the 'batwing' style, which directs most of it's light out at about 45 deg if I remember right. Would keep more of the light on the ground around the immediate area of the seg instead of 'spilling' out way forward, and way backwards.

You can see a bit of a white spot on the ground in front of my segway in the picture above. The white leds in the medallion don't really wash out anything else. Plus the white leds on front aren't really there to illuminate anything, they're there to be seen directly. If anything, the ground effect leds wash out the rest.

ryan_walters

01-31-2007, 01:43 AM

I just sprang for a couple of the red batwing LED's. I particularly liked them based on the forward voltage range being equivelent of 2 typical rechargable batteries. They also throw of quite a few extra lumens as well.

Now I just need to find some time to mount'm up with a couple AA's. I'll post pics whenever I get them done.

If you plan to run them without resistors, the first time you try them, have a multimeter set to dc current inline to check you're not overdriving them. Also remember a freshly charged NiMh battery can be 1.45v

If it does work without resistors, one thing you'll probably find is that the leds get VERY visibly dimmer throughout the batteries discharge.

Because I'm running two red leds in series, my red ones have the highest forward voltage. Therefore the lowest difference between the batteries voltage and the leds voltage. This means there's less voltage lost going through the resistor, HOWEVER, the red led's get dim long before the blue or white ones do.

Having a higher difference between the voltage source and the led's forward voltage means a little more power is lost in the resistor, but a more consistant led brightness throughout the discharge cycle.

With the red ones, the increase in lumen rating is because of different weighting to account for different sensitivity to different colors. The red ones have a higher lumen rating then the blue, but both use exactly the same power, and put out the same 'light radiance'. It's just that our eyes are less sensitive to blue light than red. That's why the 'royal-blue' led's are rated in mW instead of lumens. A deep-deep blue would probably have a very low lumen rating.

byped

01-31-2007, 10:11 AM

Thanks for the advice.

I assumed there would be some flux in output. I believe the red ones draw the same mA as the blue, however, I think they have a slightly different voltage. Operating is 2.4v, with typical at 2.85 and max at 3.2. I'm hoping to keep it simple with 2 AA's driving two LED's in parallel.

In the grand scheme of things, I'm only a novice with electrical...

If you plan to run them without resistors, the first time you try them, have a multimeter set to dc current inline to check you're not overdriving them. Also remember a freshly charged NiMh battery can be 1.45v

If it does work without resistors, one thing you'll probably find is that the leds get VERY visibly dimmer throughout the batteries discharge.

Because I'm running two red leds in series, my red ones have the highest forward voltage. Therefore the lowest difference between the batteries voltage and the leds voltage. This means there's less voltage lost going through the resistor, HOWEVER, the red led's get dim long before the blue or white ones do.

Having a higher difference between the voltage source and the led's forward voltage means a little more power is lost in the resistor, but a more consistant led brightness throughout the discharge cycle.

With the red ones, the increase in lumen rating is because of different weighting to account for different sensitivity to different colors. The red ones have a higher lumen rating then the blue, but both use exactly the same power, and put out the same 'light radiance'. It's just that our eyes are less sensitive to blue light than red. That's why the 'royal-blue' led's are rated in mW instead of lumens. A deep-deep blue would probably have a very low lumen rating.

JimNPHX

01-31-2007, 10:32 AM

All that a kit could contain would be the parts. One would still have to wire everything up in / on their own seg. This part is probably where people would have trouble if anywhere. Basic soldering skills required.

Thanks Ryan for the info. I do not mind the soldering, it is all the jargon you guys are using that has me all confused. . .

ryan_walters

02-04-2007, 04:39 AM

I just sprang for a couple of the red batwing LED's.

Now I just need to find some time to mount'm up with a couple AA's. I'll post pics whenever I get them done.

You get these powered yet? I'm interested in seeing what kind of 'pattern' the batwing style throws on the ground from the appx height they'd be mounted on the segway. Mine throw light way forward, and way back from the platform. I think the batwing ones won't do that as much.

AlexGrund

02-04-2007, 02:22 PM

byped

02-05-2007, 02:01 AM

You get these powered yet? I'm interested in seeing what kind of 'pattern' the batwing style throws on the ground from the appx height they'd be mounted on the segway. Mine throw light way forward, and way back from the platform. I think the batwing ones won't do that as much.

I haven't got them on the seg yet. I did harness up a couple AA's and tried out one of the lights - I can only see red now! At first it seemed like I got hit with a lazer pointer.

I have two twillight clips - but had a tough time getting a noise free photo. These were shot with no flash and are fairly accurate of brightness, however, the "solar spot" affect is fake and only shows on the camera capture. The light is much more consistent with no true "solar spot" under - much more like the first photo. With full lights on (600W) in the room, the red is drowned out. As for angle, the light is almost exclusively under the seg and very little is visible from a profile view - just a slight haze for & aft.

I think with two center mounted wheelside, I'll be real happy.

ryan_walters

02-05-2007, 03:25 AM

Hello Ryan,

thanks for explaining the cool light setup.
What i am still not sure about is what ist put togehther parallel and what in series.

Would it be possible to post a drawing of the whole setup (containing batteries, LEDs, resistors, switches)?

That would be great!

Alex

Here you go.

I think this is right. First time I've really drawn up a schematic from scratch. I'll update it if need be.

The thumbnail doesn't scale properly with the 'line graphics'. You'll have to view the fullsize version.

Click to display properly:
http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/normal_LED_Schematic_rev1.gif (http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/14836/LED_Schematic_rev1.gif)

ryan_walters

02-05-2007, 03:33 AM

I can only see red now! At first it seemed like I got hit with a lazer pointer.

As for angle, the light is almost exclusively under the seg and very little is visible from a profile view - just a slight haze for & aft.

I think with two center mounted wheelside, I'll be real happy.

Even though these are only 1 watt, that 1 watt is concentrated into (from?) a VERY small area, to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if it is 'bright' enough to be dangerous.

That does look nice as far as not 'bleeding' really far forward / aft. I may have to get some royal blue batwing's.

Did you check the current when driving them directly? With two hooked up, the voltage will drop a little, dropping the current a little too. So if you're measuring only one, it should read a little more than if there were two running off the same batteries.

byped

02-05-2007, 10:38 AM

Even though these are only 1 watt, that 1 watt is concentrated into (from?) a VERY small area, to the point that I wouldn't be surprised if it is 'bright' enough to be dangerous.

That does look nice as far as not 'bleeding' really far forward / aft. I may have to get some royal blue batwing's.

Did you check the current when driving them directly? With two hooked up, the voltage will drop a little, dropping the current a little too. So if you're measuring only one, it should read a little more than if there were two running off the same batteries.

My "test harness" was an rudimentary kit consisting of:
- tape
- electrical tape
- misc batteries (rechargable AAA's actually)
- a defunct remote, sawed in half for the batttery compartment
- the LED
- toothpicks
- a paperclip

Oh yes - and more tape.

Needless to say - no multimeter was available at the time of the test! I need to pick up some stuff later this week, had sold it all when I moved last time.

As for the effective angle, there's a good 60-70 degrees of projection. The floor that I shot the photo off is a semi-gloss finish wood with a good amount of reflection. All in all, I think it will be a bit brighter once soldered up & the batteries have a full charge.

Will post more, but unlikely anytime before the weekend.

AlexGrund

02-06-2007, 05:22 PM

Hy Ryan,

thank you very much. Now everything is clear. I´ll give it a try next weekend.

Alex

byped

02-11-2007, 02:06 AM

Ryan,

I finally got around to mounting those red LED's.

Here's some photo's. As for real vs. memorex, the photo's are a bit dark (this is really a dim streetlight lit neighborhood) and the red is showing like a spotlight again. The quality of the light is really much more translucent and does not show such dramatic lines. The bulk of the illumination is very much under the platform. If I pull up to a wall and am on tile (like my house) there is a red haze abound from my ankles down, but on concrete, the brightest material is well resticted to under and doesn't create harsh leads for and aft of the wheels.

As for the gear in the last photo:
- LED's mounted center on each side
- the battery (2 AAA's) are in the right wheel well
- The switch is a nice rocker that I have to find a case for on the top right (look for the white dot).

Any ideas on a good cheater weather enclosure? I'm trying to think of what common everyday household product has a 1 inch dome clear cover that I could use.

ryan_walters

02-11-2007, 02:54 AM

Any ideas on a good cheater weather enclosure? I'm trying to think of what common everyday household product has a 1 inch dome clear cover that I could use.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. The batteries are going to be the first thing to 'make contact' if most cases. I've had my setup through snow deep enough to start piling up on the front of the platform and haven't had a problem.

Looks good though.

byped

02-11-2007, 11:45 AM

I'll watch out for the snow ;-)

Oddly enough, no I feel that the system is unbalanced and I think I might just have to do something with the medailion...

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. The batteries are going to be the first thing to 'make contact' if most cases. I've had my setup through snow deep enough to start piling up on the front of the platform and haven't had a problem.

Looks good though.

joe

05-29-2007, 09:58 PM

Now that's my illuminated trim piece:

http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13972/normal_trim_piece_8leds.jpg

No outside wires, no switch - there's a reed contact behind the logo, activated by holding a magnet in front of the fly guy. :cool: The electronic is from a disassembled bike light. First touch activates four LEDs, second touch eight LEDs, third touch eight LEDs blinking, fourth touch: off.

http://forums.segwaychat.com/gallery/albums/userpics/13972/normal_trim_piece_back.jpg

I'm not the first with the light idea, but I think this a neat implementation. No external connections etc., really plug 'n' play. :D

--
Johannes