How long does a battery last anyway?

[BillPaxton]

I have a seldom used i167 (less than 60 hrs now) and a heavily used one (by a college student for hundreds, if not thousands of miles). Both are on v12 software w/original batteries and they are remarkably identical. The only difference I am aware of is that the seldom used one has a red button and the other a blue one (which has been pointed out that the red button is the "original" version).

On to the question...My wife is a good 70lbs lighter than me, and we both have been gliding for the same amount of time, and are taught by the same teacher..why,then, would her batteries die so much faster than mine? She goes to down to one bar after about 18ml but mine will still be at 3....mine also recharges on the downhills of the golf course faster, I can get a full bar back after 8 holes but she goes *maybe* to a flashing bar higher but usually not.

How many times can you recharge a battery?

Is this bad original batteries? Is it a difference in our balance (not that it matters but I surf and she doesn't, I turn more easily than she does)? I would love to upgrade software and buy new batteries for both of us, but I don't WANT to upgrade the software!!!

Advice please?

Thanks guys
+B

ps:if you reply just call me Bill or BP, not BillPaxton

[bystander]

BP,

Have you heard of reconditioning NiMH batteries on the PT? If not, try searching for that term on the SC search feature.

There is also this document from Segway, Inc.:

Battery Care Booklet (http://www.segway.com/support/docs/battery_care_booklet.pdf)

that is definitely worth a read if you are using NiMH exclusively.

[wwhopper]

So if you are wondering if you can condition the old NiMh batteries on an I2 - it will not happen (I have not tried - but have been told by inc. that the new "PT" models are not compatible with the old HT battery.

Now you can use a LiOn from a Generation One Segway on the I2.

Only XT's and Gen one I-series machines will run the NiMH - and of course the P series has a smaller battery that only fits that machine.

Gen One NiMh batteris will last about 3 years - I still have some on my I-167s delivered in March of 2003 and they are not real long lasting. I have since then bought a couple on E-bay as well as one new one from Inc, and a couple used ones from a local dealer. And all but one from the orginal machine are still in use.

The red button only means that it is an early machine. The button color was changed somewhere in 2004 I believe, so that it was not such an attractive button to push by those not in the know.

[RAG1247]

Now you can use a LiOn from a Generation One Segway on the I2.



Will

I may be wrong but gen 1 lithiums as supplied with an I180 are not suitable for use on an I2, except by "upgrading" them by returning to the mothership for such upgrade.

That is what I was told for a spare set of lithiums I had for my I180's and in fact I did send them back to Segway (on a powerbase) and they were returned "upgraded".

[BillPaxton]

BP,

Have you heard of reconditioning NiMH batteries on the PT? If not, try searching for that term on the SC search feature.

There is also this document from Segway, Inc.:

Battery Care Booklet (http://www.segway.com/support/docs/battery_care_booklet.pdf)

that is definitely worth a read if you are using NiMH exclusively.

Yup - reconditioned 3 times - the manual said 5 is bad so I figured 3 was as good as I should attempt...

[bystander]

Yup - reconditioned 3 times - the manual said 5 is bad so I figured 3 was as good as I should attempt...If the packs are showing severe loss of performance as you are indicating, do you have much to loose by doing all five cycles?

I think it's definitely a warning sign that you are due to replace the packs soon on the underperforming machine.

To take some of the guesswork out of it, you might try swapping the packs between your two machines and verifying that the symptom moves with the packs.

[BillPaxton]

If the packs are showing severe loss of performance as you are indicating, do you have much to loose by doing all five cycles?

I think it's definitely a warning sign that you are due to replace the packs soon on the underperforming machine.

To take some of the guesswork out of it, you might try swapping the packs between your two machines and verifying that the symptom moves with the packs.

My local dealer quotes $415 for a set...is that standard?

[dgbint]

Hi Bill

You can always swap battery sets around to the other machine.
That will tell you if the characteristics stay with the machine or the battery set.

If you are getting 18 miles out of a set of NiMH, that sounds pretty good.

Michael

[bystander]

My local dealer quotes $415 for a set...is that standard?$415 sounds like it may include sales tax or handling. But that sounds like a per pack (singular) price, not a per set of two price.

If the price is really $415 for a set of two, run, don't walk to make that deal.

When the PT (gen1) was new, the per pack MSRP for i-series was $295. It was raised over the summer of 2006 to $395.

Dealers may add a nominal handling charge for whatever reason.

Some folks have been buying several used NiMH packs on ebay and seeing if there's any life left in them.

plo has some experience in this, perhaps he will chime in.

Oh, and to answer your original question about how long a battery lasts, I think the NiMHs are rated for around 400 to 600 "full" cycles. If habitually only partially discharged and recharged, that counts for a fraction of a cycle, plus you get more "cycles" becuase the battery isn't stressed so much. So, if you make a bunch of shorter trips (than full range), and recharge in between, and occaisionally re-condition, they could last three years or so. If you always go full range every day and don't recharge until it's dead, they might only last a little over a year. Or you might get a lemon, we seem to hear alot about that on Saphion. But Segway, Inc. has been very good about replacing Saphion packs that underperform in their 1-year warranty period. I don't recall the warranty period on new NiMH packs, might want to check that with the dealer when ordering.

[wwhopper]

Will

I may be wrong but gen 1 lithiums as supplied with an I180 are not suitable for use on an I2, except by "upgrading" them by returning to the mothership for such upgrade.

That is what I was told for a spare set of lithiums I had for my I180's and in fact I did send them back to Segway (on a powerbase) and they were returned "upgraded".

But I do believe that the older I-180 LiOns will work on an I2. It is just that the newer LiOns (that come with the I-2s) are just a bit smarter than the old ones that came on the gen one machines. - but I am a NiMH glider on my Gen one machines, so I have not kept up on the new fangled battery technology, I will check it out!

Interesting, because we swap them out all the time at the dealership, and never is there a Gen one LiOn stack and a Gen two LiOn stack.

Or should I say, a failed LiOn is a failed LiOn, no matter the generation! - Knock on wood, we have seen less failures witht the gen two LiOns than the Gen ones!

[terryp]

But I do believe that the older I-180 LiOns will work on an I2. It is just that the newer LiOns (that come with the I-2s) are just a bit smarter than the old ones that came on the gen one machines. - but I am a NiMH glider on my Gen one machines, so I have not kept up on the new fangled battery technology, I will check it out!
Richard is right according to what Doug Field recently told me. The i180 packs need to be updated to be used on the i2, and only the factory is currently able to do so.

[stinggray]

Hay Bill sounds like we might be nabbors. I live over in Egret Landing. I just got a i167 lets hookup for ride. My email is stinggray@adelphia.net

Craig

[BillPaxton]

Hay Bill sounds like we might be nabbors. I live over in Egret Landing. I just got a i167 lets hookup for ride. My email is stinggray@adelphia.net

Craig

Sorry Craig I never saw this until today - I know another Craig in Egret on Rookery...I'm in Abacoa, will PM you