i2 Flat Tire! [Archive]

gbrandwood

09-09-2006, 07:41 PM

Surely removing it and taking it to your local bicycle store will determine whether it's a puncture or valve related problem, either of which, providing they can get the tube, should be easy and inexpensive for them to fix. Again, if you can get a new tube yourself, with a few spoons and following some of the guides available on SC, it shouldn't be too difficult to fix yourself.

If you suspect the problem is due to a manufacturing flaw, then take it to your dealer, and expect to have it shipped back to inc for them to investigate. This is what happened to me (almost), inc said they'd happily examine it to see if it was factory problem (rather than user induced) and if so, they would refund the cost of a new wheel.

bystander

09-09-2006, 07:49 PM

Karl or Zorba can offer some insight-

but my guess is fixing a flat on these tubbed tires is going to be expensive- unless you are a do it yourselfer. - Think about it- Flats and leaks on these new tires will be alot of work

rickI'm not Karl or Zorba, but I don't think it will be too bad. After all, the deep socket wrench is no longer required to remove the wheel.

A bicycle tube patch kit can be used if there is a hole in the tube.

The tube itself can be replaced for $5 to $10, depending where you look. (Or so I've heard) Don't know the going labor rate.

You might even find a bike repair shop to patch it for a equitable price if you don't want to do-it-yourself. Maybe even a car repair or car tire shop, if they don't deal with tubeless tires exclusively.

And of course, there is slime (made for tubed tires, don't use the slime made for tubeless tires).

If a prospective buyer were concerned about the issue, it would be something to talk to the dealer about before committing to purchase, no?

Edit: slow to the post I am, again!

william collins

09-09-2006, 09:15 PM

Take the tire off ,fill your wash tub with some nice soapy water (Dish Detegent) and submerge the tire and find where it's leaking .IE: Valve stem or a puncture..Hopefully its the valve and a very easy two dollar fix

KSagal

09-09-2006, 09:39 PM

I agree. Even a worst case leak (Need to replace the inner tube) is only a few bucks. Cheap and easy. Annoying till it gets done.

sombody

09-09-2006, 10:02 PM

Maybe I live in an expensive neighborhood but the Honda " toy " store charges $30 per tire - to take off the old tubeless and put new tubeless ketts on. I already had the rim/tire offf.

I could probably grind them down next time- cause they want to ride the Seg

Rick

pelley

09-10-2006, 08:49 AM

Well I found this on Segway's site:

http://www.segway.com/connect/ask/answers/ask_020904.html

"If you find an air leak that is not due to normal expected air loss and your Segway PT is still under our standard 90-day warranty for wear parts, your best option is to call Segway Customer Operations (toll-free at 1-866-4SEGWAY) to request a replacement tire and wheel assembly. This part will be shipped to you with instructions on how to replace your flat tire and wheel assembly."

Since the Segway is only a few days old, I will probably just do this. Thanks for the all the tips, now I'll know what to do in the future!

Chris

pam

09-10-2006, 08:51 AM

Have you registered your new machine with Segway? Need to do that and you can do it online.

Sometimes it's hard to get through on the phone. If you find that you're not getting a response, after a couple of days I'd do the online service request from their website, calling attention to the website offer re: the tires.

Pam

pelley

09-13-2006, 07:13 AM

My dealer made the phone call to Segway and they are shipping a new wheel assembly. Yes, I did register online (free InfoKey!)

Meanwhile, I was studying the manual and noticed in the troubleshooting that air leaks can be caused by an valve stem that is not screwed in tightly. So yesterday I filled the tire and gave the valve stem a little clockwise twist. It didn't move much, but it did a little. So I hopped on and gave it a fairly vigorous 3-mile test ride. No leakage detected! I wonder if this was the problem all along?

Speaking of filling the tire, is there a pump that people recommend? I have what I consider to be a nice bicycle pump with a built-in guage, but unfortunately the guage starts at 20PSI. It has a few markings before the 20 mark but you'd really just be guessing if you relied on it. So I have to alternate between a separate digital guage and the pump. Ideally, I'd like a compact pump (that could be stowed in a backpack easily) that has accurate measurement of 15PSI.

Chris

pelley

09-13-2006, 07:18 AM

If you call me at 941-363-9556 you are welcome to bring your Segway on our Guided Tour as a guest. I extend this courtesy to all Segway Chat folks.

Thanks, Tom! My wife and took your tour on Labor Day, and we were inspired enough to purchase our Segways two days later! We both enjoyed the tour itself, too (not just the Segway aspect). I've lived here for over 20 years but I saw parts of Sarasota that were new to me. We may take you up on your offer soon. Thanks again.

Chris

cruiter

09-13-2006, 09:47 AM

I'm still waiting for my 1st Seg, an i2, but I've been around the block having retired from the car buisness and the USN. Did you read my suggestion on the 1st page of this post, 4th down about checking the valve stem :) ? Not being critical, just seems like a common sense thing to do with a tire not holding air unless you see something sharp hanging out of it or a gash. 'Course since the shipments of new machines are late arriving, it DOES give us something to talk about.
JimMy dealer made the phone call to Segway and they are shipping a new wheel assembly. Yes, I did register online (free InfoKey!)

Meanwhile, I was studying the manual and noticed in the troubleshooting that air leaks can be caused by an valve stem that is not screwed in tightly. So yesterday I filled the tire and gave the valve stem a little clockwise twist. It didn't move much, but it did a little. So I hopped on and gave it a fairly vigorous 3-mile test ride. No leakage detected! I wonder if this was the problem all along?

Speaking of filling the tire, is there a pump that people recommend? I have what I consider to be a nice bicycle pump with a built-in guage, but unfortunately the guage starts at 20PSI. It has a few markings before the 20 mark but you'd really just be guessing if you relied on it. So I have to alternate between a separate digital guage and the pump. Ideally, I'd like a compact pump (that could be stowed in a backpack easily) that has accurate measurement of 15PSI.

Chris

pelley

09-13-2006, 10:15 AM

Did you read my suggestion on the 1st page of this post, 4th down about checking the valve stem :) ?

Yup, I did! :o I didn't have a bicycle tool for valve stems, so I didn't think much further about it at the time of your post. But it turns out the valve stems on the i2 are L-shaped and can be easily twisted by hand. Still not sure if it's the final fix, though. I would've given it a longer test this morning, but it's pouring rain here today. I'll keep you all posted.

Chris

Isidore

09-13-2006, 11:09 AM

Or even mix a strong solution of dishwashing detergent and paint it on the outside of the tyre (don't forget the valve). Splash a lot on don't dribble it on. You will get obvious bubbles where the air is coming out. You should be able to do this successfully without removing the wheel. The problem is that with a tubed tyre, the bubbles may not be exactly where the leak is as the air may find a path out via the valve stem hole or at some point between the rim and the tyre. But at least you will know you have an actual leak. A bicycle or motorcycle tube repair kit will do the rest. Even better, fit a new tube and keep the repaired one as an emergency spare

IGlideTours

09-13-2006, 04:32 PM

In the old tires, I used "Slime". Alot of motorcycle riders use it. You can supposily stab your tire with an ice pick and it will fill the hole and you just keep on riding. I am told they make a version for tubed tires but I have not checked it out yet.

amturnip

09-13-2006, 08:04 PM

Speaking of filling the tire, is there a pump that people recommend? I have what I consider to be a nice bicycle pump with a built-in guage, but unfortunately the guage starts at 20PSI.

The QuickCar 20psi gauge works well with I-180 wheels. Look at the picture - it might work with an I2 as well. http://www.quickcar.net/tire_mgmt/tire.html

cmonkey

09-13-2006, 11:44 PM

I've got half a dozen 'air supplies' from a scuba tank to compact hand pumps; as well as 5-6 guages. If you have a hand pump at home, great, use it. But for on the road, I've settled on this digital guage at found at a local Kragen:
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDetail.aspx?categorycode=3192&mfrcode=VCT&mfrpartnumber=M868
It fits perfectly in one of the pen holders in my 12.0 bag.
It's cheeep and works in 1/2 lb increments (I like my tires @ 16.5 PSI).

For air on the fly I use this and I love it:
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=20000

A quick blast of the CO2 and I'm gliding in seconds as opposed to minutes with my mini hand pump.

Dave

pelley

09-14-2006, 03:48 PM

Thanks again to everyone for the tips and advice. To be on the safe side my dealer replaced the entire wheel today. Now I've seen how quick and easy it is to remove wheels so I learned something in the process.

Chris

bentbiker

09-20-2006, 11:46 AM

Let me first say that I'm new to Segway Chat, and the proud new father of an I2. For the last 17 days, I'd talk for as long as anybody would listen about how wonderful this thing is. However, as a serious bike rider I assumed that changing a tire and patching a tube would be no more difficult than on a bike and I merrily said that I'd have to get another pump and patch kit soon. Well, yesterday, I had a flat 2 miles downhill from my house and the thing went crazy, totally uncontrollable. I jumped off at a very slow speed and managed to turn it off. Although I tried, without power assist anymore, you really can't walk the thing in riderless balance mode at more than maybe .1 mph. So, I pushed the thing up a steep hill for almost 2 miles. Remember, Segway doesn't offer a carrier yet that works for the I2. And at 100 pounds, it is just not removable from my trunk by one average person; I have nobody to help with that.

Anyway, I was mostly mad at myself for having neglected to get the tube and patch kit that I should have had. That's until I got home and looked through my Getting Started Manual, found nothing, and remembered seeing a Reference Manual in downloadable form at Segway under Support. Went there and found only that they only mentioned the removal of the wheel. I did a general search for "Flat Tire" and happily found the following white paper explanation:
http://www.segway.com/connect/ask/answers/ask_020904.html

It basically says you are covered for 90 days under warranty and alludes to a total replacement of the entire wheel assembly -- for a punctured tube. Punctured tubes are a normal occurrence for bicycles and I'm sure they will be for Segways -- certainly mine. Anyway they warn against using any automatic tire removal equipment as would be available at a tire store and say it must be done by hand using tire irons. Small bicycle tire irons won't begin to remove these tires. Just happening to have 2 ft long tire irons for auto tire removal (from way too many years ago), I contemplated just popping it off with those puppies, but the wheel is plastic and I fear damaging it. Today, I'll contact my dealer when they open, and a previous person said here that he had no problem getting a replacement wheel assembly. However, I cannot afford to be stranded miles from home with no way back; this just isn't safe. And if you are thinking about Slime as recommended in an earlier post, that can interfere with the balance of a tire and most manufacturers recommend NOT using it; Segway spefically recommends against the use of anything like the foaming Fix-a-Flat.

If I had known 17 days ago, what I know now, I would have kept my wallet in my pants until they have a better solution. Even putting air in the new tires is a pain. I don't know how it was done on previous models, but having to lay the machine on its side to even check the pressure is absurd -- the sleek look of no protruding tube stem is great, but not very practical. Remember, I was fanatically telling people yesterday that this was the most fun purchase I'd ever made, and I was now commuting to and from work without any gasoline. I love the way it handles and rides. I'm not afraid to change a tire weekly if I pick up a tack or piece of glass, but I can't afford $150 to replace a wheel and tire every time I get a flat.

I probably won't be very popular with this being my first post, and people here being total enthusiasts, but everybody so far has treated this thread as if this is a minor problem. It is a lot bigger than the recall in my opinion.

Anyway, make sure you think it through before getting an I2 or X2.

cmonkey

09-20-2006, 08:50 PM

I'll bring my tools and show you how I not only fix a flat, but changed out the entire tire.

Breaking the bead is the toughest part, but I have a trick that makes it easy!

SEGsby

09-20-2006, 08:54 PM

What's the trick?!? I'll have to do this myself at some point, too.

SEGsby

I'll bring my tools and show you how I not only fix a flat, but changed out the entire tire.

Breaking the bead is the toughest part, but I have a trick that makes it easy!

bystander

09-20-2006, 09:05 PM

What's the trick?!? I'll have to do this myself at some point, too.

SEGsbyHad a chance to look this over yet?

Dismount Segway Tires By Hand (http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=11749&highlight=tire)

and here:

http://home.gci.net/~glen/segway/tire/tire.html

The technique for gen1 tires is similar for the i2, but not exactly the same, as the i2 has a tube. Of course, the tires that cmonkey put on are tubed, so he definitely knows what he is talking about.

SEGsby

09-20-2006, 09:40 PM

No, not yet, thanks!

SEGsby

Had a chance to look this over yet?

Dismount Segway Tires By Hand (http://forums.segwaychat.com/showthread.php?t=11749&highlight=tire)

and here:

http://home.gci.net/~glen/segway/tire/tire.html

The technique for gen1 tires is similar for the i2, but not exactly the same, as the i2 has a tube. Of course, the tires that cmonkey put on are tubed, so he definitely knows what he is talking about.

bentbiker

09-20-2006, 10:40 PM

I'll bring my tools and show you how I not only fix a flat, but changed out the entire tire.

Breaking the bead is the toughest part, but I have a trick that makes it easy!

I would love to join you at Segfest, but I need to ride from my friend's place in Pedro (San Pedro pronounced PEE-dro for non-CA people) and I was counting on avoiding all the parking problems by riding the I2. Since I live in Lake Forest, is there any way I can meet up with you before that? I'll gladly do all the driving. You can email me via the member's list but my spam filter is permission-based; just make sure the word "Cmonkey" is in the subject line and I'll set a rule to let it come through.

I will be making one more attempt tonight to break the inside bead free -- maybe with a nice smooth C-Clamp -- I want something I could carry in a back pack, or maybe after being broken free a time or two it won't be as tough. I couldn't see any sign of a dropwell in the center of the wheel, but maybe if I get the other side broken free, I'll see it. Although I'll settle for being able to do it at home, I don't see how anybody can feel comfortable exploring with a chance of being totally stranded perhaps on a bike trail where vehicles are not allowed to come rescue you. And if you haven't tried pushing one of these uphill, you need to know what you are up against.

Thanks to all who offered words of encouragement. Sounds as if several of us are in the Southern CA area.

Brandis

09-21-2006, 07:54 AM

I used Slime for over a year now and never had a problem. Also, only had to top off the pressure once since then.

I don't think that imbalance is a problem with that little amount and at such low speeds.

Of course I'm talking about Slime for tubeless tires as on the Gen1 Segs. But I'm sure there is also something for the new tires.

Marc

polo_pro

09-21-2006, 11:59 AM

Thanks to all who offered words of encouragement. Sounds as if several of us are in the Southern CA area.
The solution is simple. cmonkey comes to all the polo games and is equiped to the hilt with everything you could ever need to mod/fix your segway. He's practically a walking accessory store with a capable segway mechanic inside!

So you talk with cmonkey, both come early, get the flat fixed and then borrow a mallet and play segway polo with us!

ps - Has anyone else noticed that I seem to propose segway polo as the solution to everything? Not to make light of a serious situation, but if we imported a couple hundred segways to the Middle East (along with some HEAVILY padded mallets), then I think many of combatants would lay down their arms in favor of a quick chukker! 8^) 8^) 8^)

Stan671

09-21-2006, 06:23 PM

Flat tires are rare on the Segway. I have more than 3,000 miles on mine over 3.5 years and never had a flat tire. Do you have any idea what caused your flat tire in just 17 days?

Florida Ever-Glides

09-21-2006, 08:52 PM

Stan,

It seems that from the recent posts here that it might be easier to get a flat tire on the new i2. The do no use puncture resistant Michelin tires anymore. And, maybe the new tires are not as puncture resistant. Does anyone know for sure?

pelley

09-21-2006, 10:03 PM

It seems that from the recent posts here that it might be easier to get a flat tire on the new i2. The do no use puncture resistant Michelin tires anymore. And, maybe the new tires are not as puncture resistant. Does anyone know for sure?

Mine wasn't a puncture. In retrospect, I'm pretty sure it was probably just a loose valve stem. But since it was only a few days old when it occurred, I didn't want to mess around with a possibly defective tire. I now have 98 miles on my i2 and both tires are doing great. I've driven through grass, gravel, and over sidewalk and road debris and they seem to be holding up fine so far.

Early this morning I experimented with some gliding in the dark. I used an LED-based light designed for gen 1, but since it's just a velcro loop it attaches fine to the i2 leansteer frame. Things like 1-2 inch gaps in sidewalk squares don't show up as well in darkness, even using the light. So I had a few rough bumps that I normally would've taken slower. Still no problems losing air so far.

Chris

bentbiker

09-21-2006, 11:45 PM

Flat tires are rare on the Segway. I have more than 3,000 miles on mine over 3.5 years and never had a flat tire. Do you have any idea what caused your flat tire in just 17 days?

Stan and Tom,

There are absolutely no external signs of puncture, so, I'm betting it was something as simple as a 1/8" thorn that gradually worked its way through the rubber. However, once inside I may find that there is a defect in the tube. Out here we have balls that are 3 times the size of a BB and have little thorns all over their surface and they are everywhere -- they blow in the wind onto sidewalks. Cyclists have learned out here that their MUST be a layer of kevlar in their tires; in fact there is a ribbon of kevlar called SpinSkins for bike tires that stops pretty much everything from reaching the tube if you don't have a kevlar belt in the tire or want to double the protection. They are expensive ($30 per pair I think) but I'd gladly pay it if they made such a solution for these tires.

I am suspicious that Tom Jacobson has nailed the problem. I'd be willing to bet that they've made a very soft responsive tire for the I2 with little or no puncture resistance. As I was writing this I Googled "slime tube" and it turns out they make bike tubes precisely filled with the correct amount of goo to self seal punctures. I'm sure the size market of the I2 isn't sufficient for them to make a tube for us (me?) unless Segway themselves installed them in every unit. I will look further to see if there is a liquid form of the slime that I can add to a tube if I can ever get this tire off. I know everybody is saying it's easy, but I haven't seen a single post from an I2 user who has done it. My dealer doesn't know how to get them off. Both the tires and the wheels are different on the I2 and I'm in deep depression.

Did the old wheels require that you lay the entire unit on its side to even check pressure? It's kinda like designing an automobile oil filter to be installed inside the gas tank so that it will look really neat if somebody looks under the hood.

SEGsby

09-22-2006, 12:02 AM

How was having a light attached to the leansteer frame? Did it cause any visibility issues?

SEGsby

Early this morning I experimented with some gliding in the dark. I used an LED-based light designed for gen 1, but since it's just a velcro loop it attaches fine to the i2 leansteer frame. Things like 1-2 inch gaps in sidewalk squares don't show up as well in darkness, even using the light. So I had a few rough bumps that I normally would've taken slower. Still no problems losing air so far.

Chris

pelley

09-22-2006, 08:17 AM

Did the old wheels require that you lay the entire unit on its side to even check pressure? It's kinda like designing an automobile oil filter to be installed inside the gas tank so that it will look really neat if somebody looks under the hood.

I found a simple way to circumvent that procedure. Just allow the i2 to rest on a flat surface. The leansteer frame will not fall all the way to the ground, but will rest in a balanced position with the platform tilting up toward you. At this point you just roll the whole unit a few inches until the valvestem is accessible.

Chris

pelley

09-22-2006, 08:19 AM

How was having a light attached to the leansteer frame? Did it cause any visibility issues?
SEGsby

Nope. I connected it just above the height adjustment point so it wouldn't slide down any further.

Chris

Brandis

09-22-2006, 08:44 AM

bentbiker

09-22-2006, 11:38 AM

I found a simple way to circumvent that procedure. Just allow the i2 to rest on a flat surface. The leansteer frame will not fall all the way to the ground, but will rest in a balanced position with the platform tilting up toward you. At this point you just roll the whole unit a few inches until the valvestem is accessible.

Chris

Thanks, Chris. Believe it or not, after I posted that, I began to wonder if that would work, but with the wheel off as I'm trying to get the tube patched, I couldn't test it out. The first time I tried it, I didn't know what I was looking for and had just wrestled it on its side. That's good news. Still wish they'd let it be accessible from the outside of the wheel.

bentbiker

09-22-2006, 12:01 PM

Bentbiker

There is "Slime for Tubed Tires" and it can be put into the tube without removing the tire.

http://www.slime.com/product.php?product=red

There is even a calculator to get the correct amount, for the Gen1 tires, it was 8 oz. per wheel.

Marc

Thanks, Marc. I tried and tried last night to find out the manufacturer's name and website via Google and couldn't find it. Finally, out of desperation I tried Slime.com and there it was. Looks like the new tires take roughly the same amount, if you choose "Slow Off Road ATV" as the type of vehicle; I won't be surprised if they soon have "Segway" in the drop-down list. I did the measuring on this flat tire that just happened to be lying near me as I continued to try to get the tire off.

Without looking back at all the previous posts, have you actually tried it? With as much as 8-9 ounces being required, I'm wondering if it pools every time you stop to the point you can feel it as you start up. I know, too, that manufacturers go to extremes to reduce the circulating mass for improved acceleration (witness these fancy composite wheels we have), but I'm guessing that with the smallish diameter wheels, any effect would be negligible. I'd hate to have my 0-to-60, err. . . 0-12.5 time increase by a tenth of second.

Red Seg

09-22-2006, 11:30 PM

Without looking back at all the previous posts, have you actually tried it? With as much as 8-9 ounces being required, I'm wondering if it pools every time you stop to the point you can feel it as you start up.
I don't have an i2 but I do have slime (actually a slime/liquid latex/water mixture) in my i180 tires. You will not know it is there.

bentbiker

09-23-2006, 01:39 PM

I don't have an i2 but I do have slime (actually a slime/liquid latex/water mixture) in my i180 tires. You will not know it is there.
Thanks, Mike.
Now, if I can get the tire off, and fix the tube, I guess I have no choice but to go that route. I can't even try it now on this tube because during the attempted tire removal, the right angled valve stem has gone inside the wheel and it is probably impossible to get it to come back out. I realize how difficult it must be to visualize all this but the beads of the wheel are just soooo small circumfernce-wise that you can't even grab the tube. Looks like the only solution that Segway has to offer right now is to get a whole new wheel and tire. Tubes do get punctures. I really want to meet the engineer who designed a wheel/tire combo in such a way that the tire can't be removed, even by the dealer. I haven't heard that a single I2 user has taken any preventive step, so, by my way of thinking, they are all gliding on really thin ice/tubes.

Oh yeah, can you explain the slime/liquid latex/water mixture?

bentbiker

09-23-2006, 07:11 PM

I don't have an i2 but I do have slime (actually a slime/liquid latex/water mixture) in my i180 tires. You will not know it is there.

Mike,
Since CMonkey never responded, I guess you are my new hero. I put in the Slime for tubes, pumped it up, and could hear the air leak until I began rotating the the tire with the pump still attached. The noise stopped and I think it is holding. I'd really like to see the inside of the tire to see if it reveals the reason for the flat and whether damage is still being done, but I like riding even more.

Once fully inflated (and the rubber stretched a bit), I put the tire under one of those magnifying lights and saw a bit of a rock showing maybe 1/32 of an inch wide at the surface. I dug at it with my Swiss Army knife and exposed what looks to have been a 1/4" piece of sandstone or other soft rock that was molded into the tire. Pieces of the rock broke off as I dug at it and they came out with rubber molded to the surface. I think they owe me a tire, but I wouldn't be able to install it without sending them my wheel.

Thanks again, I wouldn't have had the nerve to try it without your assurance. I have an extra bottle for the other wheel in my backpack until I hear what Segway says about the whole situation.

Red Seg

09-23-2006, 11:13 PM

Oh yeah, can you explain the slime/liquid latex/water mixture? I'm using a Slime based mixture and have been very happy with it so far. Before adding the Slime I had to add air to my tires at least once per week!

1 part Tubeless Slime (has bigger bits) - sporting goods/bike store
3 parts Liquid Latex (or Mold Builder) - craft store (Michael's)
4-8 parts water (mixture should be like heavy cream)

I used about 5-6 ounces in each tire. This mixture seems to remain in a liquid state for much longer than slime alone.

Michael

bentbiker

09-23-2006, 11:33 PM

I'm using a Slime based mixture and have been very happy with it so far. Before adding the Slime I had to add air to my tires at least once per week!

Michael

Thanks, perhaps the tube type will stay liquid longer. I hope so, anyway. Shame I can't count on closing holes as big as your tubeless stuff, but so far so good. I trust you did see the second posting regarding it solving the problem.

cmonkey

09-24-2006, 12:03 AM

I used a 24in crowbar to break the bead... just shove it under the rim and stand on it... the bead will slowly give way. But, you have to be ready to jump off if it starts to slip off the bead, otherwise it may tear into the sidewall. I replaced my tires, and also helped my local dealer reallocate some tires so the rims would match. I work in Irvine so if you need some help getting the tire off, I'd be more than happy to meet with you on a lunch break.

later

David S
check your private msg... I'll send you my cell #

Mike,
Since CMonkey never responded, I guess you are my new hero. I put in the Slime for tubes, pumped it up, and could hear the air leak until I began rotating the the tire with the pump still attached. The noise stopped and I think it is holding. I'd really like to see the inside of the tire to see if it reveals the reason for the flat and whether damage is still being done, but I like riding even more.

Once fully inflated (and the rubber stretched a bit), I put the tire under one of those magnifying lights and saw a bit of a rock showing maybe 1/32 of an inch wide at the surface. I dug at it with my Swiss Army knife and exposed what looks to have been a 1/4" piece of sandstone or other soft rock that was molded into the tire. Pieces of the rock broke off as I dug at it and they came out with rubber molded to the surface. I think they owe me a tire, but I wouldn't be able to install it without sending them my wheel.

Thanks again, I wouldn't have had the nerve to try it without your assurance. I have an extra bottle for the other wheel in my backpack until I hear what Segway says about the whole situation.

sombody

09-24-2006, 12:20 AM

I think anyone that still likes to change their oil- will have no problem changing/repairing thire tube or tubless tires.

It may even be turn out to be somewhat tharaputic..

rick

bentbiker

09-24-2006, 10:11 AM

I think anyone that still likes to change their oil- will have no problem changing/repairing thire tube or tubless tires.

It may even be turn out to be somewhat tharaputic..

rick
I have no problem changing the oil in the Segway . . . do it every time I ride. But getting the new tubed tires off without ruining the wheel is a lot tougher.

bentbiker

09-24-2006, 10:41 AM

[QUOTE=cmonkey]I used a 24in crowbar to break the bead... just shove it under the rim and stand on it... the bead will slowly give way.

Thanks, David. I'll probably call you this afternoon after my bike ride. I had both beads unseated. I had used a 24" smooth tire iron to get the tougher side free, almost identically to your technique. However, unless I want to really risk breaking/marring the wheel with a couple of those same giant tire irons on a composite wheel, the new tires won't begin to come off. The tires are so tight that you can even get the tube out from under the bead. And yes, that is after sliding the tire to the outside which has the narrower "well". The problem now is that I've filled the tube with Slime and re-seated the tire.

We'll talk. I'd be willing to dump the $6 of Slime if we think we can get a look at the inside of the tire. I fear something still protruding on the inside and continuing to do damage. Don't know if the rock that was molded into the tire could be sticking through on the inside.

cmonkey

09-24-2006, 01:50 PM

..... is to not even use a tube all!

I'm running tires that say they require tubes... that's probably for DOT approval....I'm running them tubeless.

For the speeds we're running at, I don't think we'll suffer catastrophic blowouts.

For a month after I put on my tires, I didn't ahve any problems with air loss. I think this is because I used silicone oil to help seat and seal the bead.

After about 6 weeks I started to notice gradual air loss, same as with the original Michelins. I think this is due to the slight texture of the inside rim edge. To test this theory, I'm going to break the beads again, and this time use some automotive bead sealant. I expect that I'll be able to go a lot longer between air checks. If I do get a puncture, I'm putting slime for tubless back in....

Slime for tubeless has lots of chunky material to get into a puncture.
Slime for tubed tires has no chunks, it's supposed to ooze and seal between the tube and the tire.

ok... off to auto strore for bead sealer....

later

ds

cmonkey

09-24-2006, 10:08 PM

Went looking for 'bead sealant' and all are tacky, permanent, and messy.

So i'm going to try some thicker stuff

I just broke the bead on my left tire, and smeared a layer 90% pure silcone grease one the bead.

I'm running both tires at 20psi, and in a month, I'll check them again.

This should give me an idea if the airloss is due to the texture of the rim, or another factor.

bentbiker

09-27-2006, 04:46 AM

I just broke the bead on my left tire, and smeared a layer 90% pure silcone grease one the bead.

I'm running both tires at 20psi, . . .

The pressure seemed to hold perfectly and then suddenly lost air to the point I could barely limp home. Getting off of an I2 with a low tire is really fun; you can barely control it while you struggle to get it turned off, probably because the steertube is no longer vertical and it starts spinning.

You said that the tube slime works differently than the tubeless in that is seals between the tube and the tire rather than plugging the actual hole in the tube as the tubless does in the tire. That might mean the low 15 pound pressure allows too much flexing and breaks it free under a hard turn. The only real solution other than yours of going back to the tubeless is to replace the tube and check the inside of the tire (if I only knew how). Although I was promised a call from my dealer by yesterday as to what Segway wants to do, I haven't heard anything. So much for patience -- guess I'll have to call again. I hate to increase the air pressure and give up the soft ride, but that might help.

bystander

09-27-2006, 05:41 AM

Re: Slime usage in low-pressure tires.

I've heard that when using slime in a low pressure tire, one can overinflate the tire to a much higher pressure, (say, around 60 lbs, for a PT tire), right after inserting the slime. Then wait for a few hours, occasionally turning the tire, then lower the pressure to normal before use. This squeezes the slime into all the cracks and crevices.

Haven't tried this myself yet. I have a bottle of slime, but my PT (I-167) tires haven't become bad enough to apply it yet. I still top them off every 2-3 weeks.

bentbiker

09-27-2006, 10:55 AM

Re: Slime usage in low-pressure tires.

Haven't tried this myself yet. I have a bottle of slime, but my PT (I-167) tires haven't become bad enough to apply it yet. I still top them off every 2-3 weeks.

Bystander,
I can see where this could work well in a tubless tire, but I fear it would be counter productive in a tube-type. I think it would merely force the Slime out of the tube and into the tire itself, where it can't do anything. Since I may well be joining you soon if I convert mine to tubeless, keep me/us abreast of your success if you try it. Thanks for the suggestion, anyway.

cruiter

09-27-2006, 11:12 AM

I've seen so many posts on this topic with the gen2 tires and wheels, I'm wondering if a person would have more comfort on a reasonably long glide if he/she used the original tubeless tires? What is the benefit of the new ones if anyone knows? Will the new wheels work with the gen1 tires (valve placement inside rim)? If not, would the gen1 wheels work on an i2 if someone was willing to swap? Or am I overreacting to the posts. Has anyone heard from Inc as to what percentage of i2 tires deliverd so far have been a warranty concern? And/or if it is a real problem, would Inc eventually ship new tires to dealers that are less prone to problems? I'm a new (still wannabe) seggie with too much time on my hands to read these posts as my i2 is somewhere between rubber mallets tapping it together and iron ore in the ground :( . Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.I've got about 39 miles on my i2 (only had it a few days) and I've already had to fill the right tire twice. It keeps going flat, like it has a slow leak. I can't find any tire damage. My dealer wasn't available today, but I'm wondering if this would be a warranty issue? The i2's don't use innertubes, do they?

Chris

Gihgehls

09-27-2006, 12:39 PM

I just put some slime in my G1 tires and inflated to 16psi. My right tire was losing pressure much more quickly and it was driving me CRAZY.

We'll see how they hold up.

pam

09-27-2006, 12:52 PM

Cruiter, I don't have my i2 here to check, but I'm thinking the gen1 tires might not work on the gen2s because of the gen2 wheel covers fit over the area where the (high tech term, here, you tech guys can now laugh, but quietly, please :), no spilling of cokes on keyboards ) inflation thingy is on the gen1 tires.

Pam

cmonkey

09-27-2006, 01:34 PM

When I originally got my 170, I had the usual tire pressure issues. And after running over a ton of goatheads, I finally went the slime route.
I added a full 8oz bottle in each tire, and inflated them to 80PSI, shook the tire to get the stuff everywhere, and let it sit. After 30 minutes at 80psi, I dropped the pressure back to 16.5 and everything was fine.

ds

(for those wondering, the gen1 tires were tested safe to 125psi because that's the max pressure seen at some gas stations, again segway safety at work)

I just put some slime in my G1 tires and inflated to 16psi. My right tire was losing pressure much more quickly and it was driving me CRAZY.

We'll see how they hold up.

cruiter

09-27-2006, 02:14 PM

Pam, sorry but can't help myself. The "thingy" I hope you're talking about is a valve stem :) Cruiter, I don't have my i2 here to check, but I'm thinking the gen1 tires might not work on the gen2s because of the gen2 wheel covers fit over the area where the (high tech term, here, you tech guys can now laugh, but quietly, please :), no spilling of cokes on keyboards ) inflation thingy is on the gen1 tires.

Pam

pam

09-27-2006, 02:18 PM

That's alright. :) I knew you tech guys would be doubled over your keyboards with that - I just couldn't for the life of me remember the name of it.

Pam

bentbiker

09-28-2006, 12:48 AM

Or am I overreacting to the posts.

As a proud new I2 owner, let me reassure you that you are not overreacting. Not one person or dealer has yet admitted to knowing how to get the tire off the wheel. Segway is sending me a new wheel and tire and I really appreciate it, but let's get real -- all this because a tube needs a 15 cent patch? That should be a 5-10 minute field exercise executable by the owner. I know I've said this previously, but cyclists patch tires on every ride. Tubes are going to be punctured and they don't leak slowly like a tubless at low pressure. You don't have time to get 12 miles back to your house and even if you get there, your only option so far is to get another wheel and tire combo -- I'm guessing $150 for every flat. As cMonkey said, the Goat Head burrs (he had to tell me what they were) here in southern CA, will result in a lot of punctures, but everybody has tacks, glass and thorns in the gutters of the crosswalks, and if you are in a bike lane, that is where all the junk ends up.

Tubeless slime in tubless tires seems to be the best solution I've heard but as you question, we don't know what fits what and besides, we shouldn't have to find the solution for a brand new machine.

sombody

09-28-2006, 02:22 AM

Well we have heard from the 5 or 6 guys that can change / fix a tubed flat. But hy are the old timers having such a hard time just saying " bring it in to a ATV or bicycle shop and get it fixed " . Anybody ever try fixing a flat on a wheelbarrow tire ?-
Sure- Karl or cmonkey will say- Ive done it dozens of times-

I told you I paid $ 30 per tire just to have my Seg tires taken off and Ketts put on.- Maybe alittle bit high- but come on lets get real- fixing these tubed tires is going to be a royal pain.

I expect that the dealers will eventually or should have a set up- bench and tools in their stores and begin to fix the leaks- maybe $ 20 bucks a pop.

rick

bentbiker

09-28-2006, 04:21 AM

Well we have heard from the 5 or 6 guys that can change / fix a tubed flat. But hy are the old timers having such a hard time just saying " bring it in to a ATV or bicycle shop and get it fixed " . Anybody ever try fixing a flat on a wheelbarrow tire ?-

rick

Just to clarify one point -- not one person that I have seen has said they can remove the new tires from the I2. Although I haven't seen the old tires removed, I believe the new tires are MUCH more difficult. Why else would Segway be sending out tire and wheel combinations under warranty? You don't have to be much of a DIYer to patch a tube, IF THE DROPWELL IS DEEP ENOUGH TO LET THE TIRE COME OFF EASILY.

I think you are putting it mildly when you say fixing these flats is going to be a royal pain." I'll bet your toy store can't do the new ones at all without ruining the wheel.

cmonkey

09-28-2006, 10:56 AM

was that you around Bake and Research yesterday afternoon?

I work out of 11 Cushing...

bentbiker

09-28-2006, 11:30 AM

was that you around Bake and Research yesterday afternoon?

I work out of 11 Cushing...

I work just off Bake at 19 Morgan, but Research is on the other side of the Freeway and I wasn't down there. I'm excited to learn there's another I2 so close. I actually know a bunch of people who work near you at Aten/Iogear on Hubble.

I'm still waiting for an answer from my dealer as to whether I would be at risk if I tried to manhandle the tire off using the 18" tire spoon. They told me not to bother (because Segway is sending the new tire and wheel), but people don't seem to understand that I want to know whether I can get this tire off next time without ruining the wheel, and I want to know what caused the flat -- defective tire (rock molded in), defective tube, Goat Head burr, glass, . . .