Old Glider's First Impressions on the i2

[jgrohol]

I've had the opportunity to ride the i2 on a couple of occasions. It's one sweet ride.

The first thing you notice is how clean the lines of the new machine are. The T shape of the old handlebars looks a little outdated when you see the shorter, angled handgrips of the new LeanSteer bar. The second thing you might notice is how the old powerbase and chasis resides largely unchanged underneath the new mats and control shaft base. I was glad the stable, solid feeling of that base remains the same.

New rubber and wheels grace the tires, along with a new control shaft base that resides between your feet. Gone are all the electronics from the handlebars, and the display on the machine itself. The only display the machine shows when in operation is a set of LEDs that flash in sequence to show mode.

New to the i2 is the wireless security key fob, called the InfoKey, which replaces the old iButton security system. The fob will remind you of an oversized watch that you might get away with wearing on your wrist, but more likely will end up in your pocket or in the fob holder attachment on the i2's handlebars. The holder allows you to view our old friend Blinky as you glide (along with the time and other information -- sorry, I'm not sure gliding speed made it in there). The backlit fob is operated by 4 buttons on the side, much like a digital watch. It's a nice design that complements the i2. Watch the 3D tour on Segway.com to get a nice overview of the new machine up-close and personal.

The glide of the i2 is the most important difference, of course. If you've ever ridden a Segway before, it will take most experienced riders time to "re-learn" their riding habits. Twisting a handgrip is a behavior we learned to like, but it was also the least intuitive component of the first generation of the Segway. It's also the behavior that causes first-time gliders the most trouble (at least out of the thousands of demos I've given). People intuitively "get" the leaning; the turning never felt as intuitive.

All of that is changed with the advent of LeanSteer. A simple evolution to regular Segway riding, it mirrors the "lean forward to go forward, lean back to go back" elegance of the original version. Although it may take experienced riders longer to pick up the new steering (because you have to un-learn your old way of controlling the machine), you will pick it up in a short time. It just feels more intuitive and natural. Within 15 or 20 minutes, I felt as confident on the new i2 as I did on my old Gen I unit.

Some maneuvers also become surprisingly easy on the new LeanSteer units. Going over a series of bumps or uneven pavement is far simpler and less stressful on your body than on the Gen I machines. Again, it takes a little getting used to, but you pick it up in no time.

It's likely just a matter of time before I trade in my old Gen I unit, or seriously consider just purchasing a new one outright. I can't imagine not having one, as it is a definite improvement and evolution in the Segway PT.

John

[SegwayUtah]

John, thanks for the report based on first-hand experience. I'm so excited to ride one of the new units...

Chris

[bystander]

jgrohol,

Thanks for the post.

I am curious to hear your take on opening and negotiating doors with the i2. Easier, about the same, a little worse? Maybe techniques need to be adjusted a bit?

[SegwayDan]

jgrohol,

Thanks for the post.

I am curious to hear your take on opening and negotiating doors with the i2. Easier, about the same, a little worse? Maybe techniques need to be adjusted a bit?

I'd say easier because there's no steering ring to hold onto, which is awkward when the door opens towards you or away from you to the left.

[bystander]

I'd say easier because there's no steering ring to hold onto, which is awkward when the door opens towards you or away from you to the left.Well, sure, I would think it ought to be easier, too!

But as someone who has experienced the new model for more than a few minutes, I thought jgrohol could shed some light on exactly how much easier it was - lol.

[wwhopper]

New gliders will find it 2nd nature. But for those of us older users, just a bit of time to take to the new machines.

They are a lot of fun to glide on, we played a quick game of LeanSteer Polo on Friday afternoon. And had a blast.

Everyone GO KNOCK ON YOUR DEALER's DOOR THIS MORNING!

Also the old models - will still be in much demand - as they are still some of the best technology out there. Just not the latest. Some people will only want the fixed control shaft units...

Enjoy the NEW Glide!

[Desert_Seg]

jgrohol,

Thanks for the post.

I am curious to hear your take on opening and negotiating doors with the i2. Easier, about the same, a little worse? Maybe techniques need to be adjusted a bit?

This isn't as easy as it sounds. Us Gen1 gliders are used to opening door with one hand and then turning the twist grip to adjust. I attempted to do just that when I got on the Gen2, and since I had to open the door with my left hand I reached across with my right to turn slightly. Doh! No need to do that anymore!

A little bit of practice is all it takes....

Steven

[RC Mike]

Not too dificult Will, just takes some platform time. You have to unlearn some habits, like letting the control shaft go where it wants to when hitting bumps. Now, you just hold the CS right in front of you wherever you are going. Much nicer, but you have to unlearn, then learn.

Mike

[KSagal]

I liked it so much, I went out a bought one...

I have a slightly different take on the re-learning thing...

I have years and many many miles on my 167. I do not think much on it, and haven't after the first 10 miles or so. It is so well designed, there is a lot of auto pilot to the way I glide...

I make it a point to watch the road or sidewalk in front of me, and deal with what comes up, but the way to deal with it is automatic as well...

The primary issue on the 1st gen machines is that when the road gets rough, you get loose in your grip on the handlebar. Let it swing back and forth in front of you. This is a learned behaviour. Instinctively, a person wants to hold on tight when the road gets bumpy...

Now, the i2 is a different animal... My first time on it, I used my learned behaviour, and it did not react as I had trained myself that segs react...

I have spent 10 or 15 miles on mine now, and I realize that it is even easier, by far, to learn to glide, because there is almost no learned behaviour that needs to be... All the movement instincts, are used to make it go thru it's paces...

Lean here or there, it goes here or there. Back off from that lean, it backs off. No more reaching across the handlebar to ride cow handed because of a project like a door or holding the neighbors bushes off your head, no more lean into the turn but keep one hand back to keep the turn going, no more of a lot of things...

This machine (i2) is so much more the extention of the pedestrian that we all thought the HT was, but now know it was only close. This one is dead on...

Now, don't get me wrong. I love my 'E' and have no plans to give it up. I just sold my 1967 Mopar with the 440 last year. I had that particular car since 1980. I still love the old classics, and my e167 is just that.

The world moves on. The technology continues to improve. This is beyond any doubt in my mind, a new generation. I could not resist grabbing on and gliding along. The excitement is new again!

Anyone wants to come and visit, and go for a test glide, let me know!

[florin]

How does the power assist works? In the past you had to turn the steering grip to let it ride forward or back, how does this work now, they mention in the guide that you can take stairs with it, but they are a bit vague on the how part.

Somehow I'm also missing the info on how to fill up your tires. In the past, it was hidden behind a wheel insert, but where is it now?

[Gihgehls]

Yes, we need information on the really important stuff. Like power assist mode, and what exactly is going on in the leansteer frame, hardware wise. Is it one of those harmonic drives with a motor in it? a simple spring? Where are my hardware dudes?! Get that screw driver out!

[Tarkus]

Just rode one, very cool.

The leansteer is nice, but now I'll need to see how INC plans to sell them.

Alan

[Desert_Seg]

How does the power assist works? In the past you had to turn the steering grip to let it ride forward or back, how does this work now, they mention in the guide that you can take stairs with it, but they are a bit vague on the how part.

Somehow I'm also missing the info on how to fill up your tires. In the past, it was hidden behind a wheel insert, but where is it now?

There is no power assist feature but I took an i2 up a double flight of stairs at the factory (from the shop floor to the main offices, for those of you who have been at Inc and had no problems.

The valve stem is on the inside of the tires and the recommended fill process is to lay the unit on its side.

Steven

[florin]

There is no power assist feature but I took an i2 up a double flight of stairs at the factory (from the shop floor to the main offices, for those of you who have been at Inc and had no problems.

The valve stem is on the inside of the tires and the recommended fill process is to lay the unit on its side.

Steven

Thanks Steven for the info, it doesn't look easy to lay the unit on it's side. What's your experience?

[Neelix]

The valve is going to be the new "charging lights" problem.


But it won't be as major.


Sure, it's a pain and a half to get in there and do it. But the tires now have tubes, and hopefully should not need as much upkeep in terms of filling them with air.

The charging lights was a daily issue. The valve is going to be once a month or less.

[Sal]

Thanks Steven for the info, it doesn't look easy to lay the unit on it's side. What's your experience?

Well the new smooth tire design makes is a bit almost impossible to grasp the machine to it's side, but I use the fenders, they're damn strong.

-Sal

[Hiphop]

There is no power assist feature but I took an i2 up a double flight of stairs at the factory (from the shop floor to the main offices, for those of you who have been at Inc and had no problems.

The valve stem is on the inside of the tires and the recommended fill process is to lay the unit on its side.

Steven

I use a ramp and the power assist mode to put my I167 in my SUV. How would a person get the I2 up a steep ramp?

[RC Mike]

Get in front of it, with the back pointed at your ramp, and push on the handle. It will climb the ramp.

Mike

[sholloway]

Power assist is now called "Riderless Balance", when you step off the machine it goes to riderless balance (rb). Now you can walk it around and it remains upright. You lean it forward, back, left and right. If you are going up a ramp into an SUV the i2 remains upright so depending on the clearance you may get to the top of the ramp to learn that it won't go in. At that point you could tap the power button to get it out of RB or you could just manually push it up the ramp w/o the help of the motors.

[Gihgehls]

I'd still really like to know more about the mechanics of the leansteer assembly.

[bystander]

Yes, we need information on the really important stuff. Like power assist mode, and what exactly is going on in the leansteer frame, hardware wise. Is it one of those harmonic drives with a motor in it? a simple spring? Where are my hardware dudes?! Get that screw driver out!Have you seen the animated x-ray view of the LeanSteer assembly on the Segway website yet?

Looks like a spring though, not a HD. And with folks mentioning that the CS tends to remain purpendicular to the base when traversing sideway slopes (they have to make a minor adjustment to keep the CS parallel to the pull of gravity to avoid turning), it sounds like spring action.

Maybe on the 2008 model line, eh?

[Turtle]

For those of us who've been on our 1st gen machines all these years, there are certain riding tricks we've learned to do that would appear to be impossible with LeanSteer. For example, in boot camp we learned to get across big ruts which are approaching one wheel by momentarily leaning hard away from the rut to take as much weight off the impacted wheel as possible... seems like this would make LeanSteer go bananas.

Second thing I was wondering was whether the stick is still collapsible, and third, how many people are now going to find it impossible or very difficult to pick their HT up and toss it in the back of a car? I mean, the rated weight for an i2 is 105lbs, compared to the 85 of an i167 or the 65 of a p133. And the x2 is going to be 120 pounds "plus accessories!"

Lastly, it appears that LLC is no longer going to sell the units directly, meaning you HAVE to hit a dealer or maybe Amazon (assuming they're going to be selling the 2nd-gen units). Are the dealers generally prepared to BE the only source for stuff, and more specifically, are the dealers generally prepared to do full-line service on Segway now? This is sort of prominent in my mind because I have my i167's stick up in Bedford for handlebar surgery, and they also told me that unless someone happens to be at a dealer doing upgrades, the Li-Ion upgrade for my 167 requires physically taking or shipping the unit back to Bedford for the flashing. Seems like LLC should be able to get those capabilities in the hands of the dealers.

When you buy a Toyota, it would be extremely inconvenient to have to ship it back to Japan for a new set of brake rotors. Segway right now has way too many things for which the solution is, "send it to Bedford."

[Stan671]

It is not fair to compare sending a Toyota back to Japan with sending a Segway back to Bedford. There have been millions of Toyota's sold over many decades. The Toyota dealer and service network is (approximately) 257,000 times more mature than Segway's dealer network is right now. The Toyota dealer network was not built over night and neither can Segway's. Give it time.

[Desert_Seg]

For those of us who've been on our 1st gen machines all these years, there are certain riding tricks we've learned to do that would appear to be impossible with LeanSteer. For example, in boot camp we learned to get across big ruts which are approaching one wheel by momentarily leaning hard away from the rut to take as much weight off the impacted wheel as possible... seems like this would make LeanSteer go bananas.

Going over ruts or curbs will take some adjusting to but only until you "learn" the LeanSteer idiosyncracies.

Second thing I was wondering was whether the stick is still collapsible, and third, how many people are now going to find it impossible or very difficult to pick their HT up and toss it in the back of a car? I mean, the rated weight for an i2 is 105lbs, compared to the 85 of an i167 or the 65 of a p133. And the x2 is going to be 120 pounds "plus accessories!"

Yep, collapsible
Yep, heavier
Yep, might need those Segway branded ramps

Lastly, it appears that LLC is no longer going to sell the units directly, meaning you HAVE to hit a dealer or maybe Amazon (assuming they're going to be selling the 2nd-gen units). Are the dealers generally prepared to BE the only source for stuff, and more specifically, are the dealers generally prepared to do full-line service on Segway now? This is sort of prominent in my mind because I have my i167's stick up in Bedford for handlebar surgery, and they also told me that unless someone happens to be at a dealer doing upgrades, the Li-Ion upgrade for my 167 requires physically taking or shipping the unit back to Bedford for the flashing. Seems like LLC should be able to get those capabilities in the hands of the dealers.

This is a very good thing. Dealers SHOULD be your first and only touch point. After all, that is why there are there and that is their business. However, I do not believe that every dealer will be able to perform all repairs and that there will be varying levels of service support, depending on a dealer's training.

FWIW,

Steven

[mzokc]

I am still able to lift the 1st generation i167 into the trunk of the car. My heart sank a bit today when reading the heavier weight of the i2 at segway.com.

However I must say that Segway has a winner with this design. The lean steer should eliminate all concern about excessive turning. Love the new electronics too! It's gonna be a blast trying out the i2.

Thank you Segway for all the improvements!

Mark Z
Oklahoma City

[god1138]

Sweet Jesus!

I was checking news on Yahoo and saw an announcement on the new mods... just allow me a moment to gather my breath...

*okay*
<clears throat>

Good god almighty. Someone wanna buy one for me like... right now? LOL

Lean steer? Beautiful! A masterstroke if I've ever seen one. It seems as if our wonderful engineers and designers had a love fest and made the i2 the golden child.

I'm.... hells... I'm flabbergasted. I'll have to reserve further comment for later.

[wwhopper]

We have been doing a bunch of press demos this week. Interesting to see the folks who have never been on a Segway - much prefer the I-2 to the fixed control shaft.

Me thinks Segway has a real winner here!

Now to get some glide time in myself!

[Turtle]

...something as simple as a software upgrade requires no more than a laptop, a set of plugs, and the software to do it, all things which any Segway dealer should be able to have on hand. Maybe a better analogy would have been "having to ship your entire PC back to Dell to install a Windows service pack."

In fact, I've always been of the opinion that LLC should put a standard USB port on the thing, akin to how cars have had OBD-II diagnostic ports for at least ten years. Then, just like I can for a printer, a phone, a PDA or my Sony PlayStation Portable, I can just download the 14.1 code and install it myself!

That would also open up the possibility of getting useful performance data dumps out of the thing. Just because Segway assumes people don't want to know the picky details of how the things work doesn't mean that's the case.

Turtle

[Stan671]

...something as simple as a software upgrade requires no more than a laptop, a set of plugs, and the software to do it, all things which any Segway dealer should be able to have on handIt is a little more complicated than that. There is a custom (hand) made interface box in between the laptop and the connectors for the Segway. Somebody needs to make and pay for a couple hundred of these fancy interface boxes to be made. And since the Gen 2's won't need this, these expenses would be a dead end.

[joe]

In fact, I've always been of the opinion that LLC should put a standard USB port on the thing

I' afraid that will never happen as Segway is somehow anxious regarding the firmware (code) containing their SmartMotion technology. :rolleyes:

Just because Segway assumes people don't want to know the picky details of how the things work doesn't mean that's the case.

Vice versa! Because they fear reverse engineering of the code they don't let it out of their control.

If they only added an USB port as a power supply for lights and other attachments...! :(

--
Johannes

[Desert_Seg]

If they only added an USB port as a power supply for lights and other attachments...! :(

Ah, that is something that I've wondered about getting done. The problem would be stepping down the power but think of all the possibilities if they added a power port, of sorts.

Steven

[joe]

Not a big issue. I believe the internal electronics don't work at 72 volts :eek: so there is already a voltage converter included. :) If not - this small (42 x 33 x 64 mm) circuit fo example steps the input down to a infinitely variable voltage at 80-87% effectiveness and up to 2A:

http://www.elv-downloads.de/Bilder/Artikel/19372.jpg

--
Johannes