Do we really need all those electronics?

[Isidore]

Segwaying to work the other morning, I starting thinking that the Segway is really too easy to ride and is not sufficiently challanging to retain ones full attention. I thought about how the human internal balancing mechanism is quite capable of allowing us to ride a unicycle, so why not a Segway? You would replace the right hand grip with a 'throttle' and put all those gyros and self testing electonics in the dustbin. There would be a steep and probably painful early learning curve, but what interests me is what would happen then? Would you get to a point where it became as natural as riding an ordinary Segway or would it always feel precarious? The potential benefit would be a more immediate and connected feeling- compare a pre electronics age car's throttle response with those of a modern vehicle where all control inputs are filtered and smoothed and damped- and stifled. If you were really good you might be able to do tyre smoking starts and much faster stops. You wouldn't be limited to 20 kph either. What a wonderful non 'pc' device that would be!

[Desert_Seg]

Of course we need all those electronics....how else are we going to keep the price high? :-)

Seriously though, without the electronics the Segway would not get regulatory approval, would not be usable on the streets / sidewalks / malls, and, therefore, would not be commercially viable. So, Segway would stop making it and all our fun would stop.

However, you are free to take your unit apart, make of it what you will (a la hot rod days of yore) and then tell me how to do it. :-)

Steven

[KSagal]

Muscle Seg!

[SegwayDan]

Certainly not!

One major factor which cries out for positive computer control is the fact that there is inherently NO stability in the Segay's particular arrangement of wheels and payload--not even the rather fickle angular momentum of the tandem spinning wheels of a conventional scooter or bicycle.

Though the Segway's arrangement is admittedly a little more stable than a unicycle, I would say that few unicyclists would be interested in a motorized version of their stunt device, as it's difficult enough to master the manual version.

And just how many unicyclists have you seen commuting to work and in amongst a crowd?

Sorry, but your idea, though imaginative, is quite preposterous.

Additionally, your point about becoming lulled into complacency with the machine's level of stability is NOT solved by removing the automatic stability system.

Just as with any other "automatic" device, e.g. a modern motor car. I was just reviewing the new Mercedes S550 and all of its automatic and sophisticated systems. You don't spend $120K on such a machine just so that you can fall asleep at the wheel with the expectation of the car bringing you to a safe stop.

These safety features are there for a BACK UP, not a replacement to common sense and vigilence on the part of the driver.

This same common sense and vigilence are required also of a Segway glider--BEYOND the sophisticated and admittedly expensive systems the HT so thankfully has.

[yosgof]

Also put the wheels in one line and what do we get?

[Sal]

Segwaying to work the other morning, I starting thinking that the Segway is really too easy to ride and is not sufficiently challanging to retain ones full attention. I thought about how the human internal balancing mechanism is quite capable of allowing us to ride a unicycle, so why not a Segway? You would replace the right hand grip with a 'throttle' and put all those gyros and self testing electonics in the dustbin. There would be a steep and probably painful early learning curve, but what interests me is what would happen then? Would you get to a point where it became as natural as riding an ordinary Segway or would it always feel precarious? The potential benefit would be a more immediate and connected feeling- compare a pre electronics age car's throttle response with those of a modern vehicle where all control inputs are filtered and smoothed and damped- and stifled. If you were really good you might be able to do tyre smoking starts and much faster stops. You wouldn't be limited to 20 kph either. What a wonderful non 'pc' device that would be!

... you're joking.

If not, I agree with the comments above... It would certainly be a counter-intuitive device. An expensive circus act.

But I think you were being facetious, and I appreciate your sense of humor.

-Sal

[luckie]

http://www.tlb.org/eunicycle.html

Isidore-

If you're serious than you may want to build your own. Check out the electric unicycle this dude created (click URL). In particular, play the movie.

Doug

[bystander]

Remember this gadget?

GyroBike flywheel (http://transportation.engadget.com/2006/04/28/gyrobike-flywheel-helps-bicycles-self-steady/)

More here (http://www.thegyrobike.com/)

Why not mount it in a unicycle, instead of a bicycle's front wheel?

It might make learning to ride a unicycle merely challenging, instead of doubly challenging.

I'd consider trying it out myself, but the product hasn't quite hit the retail channels yet.

[X-man]

Of course we need all the electronics we can get.
I want a Segway that acts like a phone when you press a button. If Maxwell Smart can have a shoe phone, I want a Segway phone.

[Isidore]

I am of course being slightly, but not entirely facetious. I don't see this as a replacement for a Segway- it would of course never sell but it would be very interersting to see if it would work. Any motorcyclist who has done a wheelie has ridden a motorised unicycle. The really good ones, who have say just won a round of the motorcycle GP championship, can be seen doing this for the length of the finishing straight, so it is possible. I am just curious how easy it would be once you had got your brain and muscle memory into the control loop. Then you could have real segway sports with racing and other sports of skill and balance that would push forward the design of balance controls and battery technology. Don't get me wrong, I think the Segway is amazing and I commute to work on one every day. I just have the feeling that making it so easy to ride is not the only possible goal, that we lose something by making it so 'safe'- maybe all we lose is trips to the emergency room but perhaps not. If the bicycle were first designed today would riding one with the electronic stability controls switched off be considered just as mad?

[Stewbonz]

I am of course being slightly, but not entirely facetious. I don't see this as a replacement for a Segway- it would of course never sell but it would be very interersting to see if it would work. Any motorcyclist who has done a wheelie has ridden a motorised unicycle. The really good ones, who have say just won a round of the motorcycle GP championship, can be seen doing this for the length of the finishing straight, so it is possible. I am just curious how easy it would be once you had got your brain and muscle memory into the control loop. Then you could have real segway sports with racing and other sports of skill and balance that would push forward the design of balance controls and battery technology. Don't get me wrong, I think the Segway is amazing and I commute to work on one every day. I just have the feeling that making it so easy to ride is not the only possible goal, that we lose something by making it so 'safe'- maybe all we lose is trips to the emergency room but perhaps not. If the bicycle were first designed today would riding one with the electronic stability controls switched off be considered just as mad?



Buy a Q and take off the back wheels.

[terryp]

Buy a Q and take off the back wheels.
:) That would work (work to prove the point, that is) :)

[KSagal]

In a word, "Yes"

[RC Mike]

Any motorcyclist who has done a wheelie has ridden a motorised unicycle. The really good ones, who have say just won a round of the motorcycle GP championship, can be seen doing this for the length of the finishing straight, so it is possible.
I owned a 135hp 320lb bike, It could wheelie. A Moto GP bike today is about 150hp(some say 190hp) 200lb . Your segway is a 4hp 85lb machine. Do you really want to compare it?

Mike

[Isidore]

http://www.tlb.org/eunicycle.html

Isidore-

If you're serious than you may want to build your own. Check out the electric unicycle this dude created (click URL). In particular, play the movie.

Doug


Just looked at the link and it is amazing– 'It's a Segway Jim, but not as we know it'

[Isidore]

I owned a 135hp 320lb bike, It could wheelie. A Moto GP bike today is about 150hp(some say 190hp) 200lb . Your segway is a 4hp 85lb machine. Do you really want to compare it?

Mike


Yes, but a Segway is clearly powerful enough to balance because it does!! Also, you don't have the whole frame, engine etc to raise about a metre in the air before you've got the centre of gravity over the wheel that's still in contact with the ground. (I also don't feel the need to ride the Seg at 120 mph either).

I'll have to dust off my old training unicycle that I never quite learned how to ride, check my health insurance and get on with it.

[Gihgehls]

You want to see how fun this really is? Put your HT in power-assist mode. Step on top of the gearboxes. Now try balancing using the steering grip. The best I can do is about 10 seconds. Enjoy.

[yosgof]

You want to see how fun this really is? Put your HT in power-assist mode. Step on top of the gearboxes. Now try balancing using the steering grip. The best I can do is about 10 seconds. Enjoy.

Just step on it while its off. You get the full President Bush effect.

[luckie]

You want to see how fun this really is? Put your HT in power-assist mode. Step on top of the gearboxes. Now try balancing using the steering grip. The best I can do is about 10 seconds. Enjoy.

Right! I was originally thinking you can't try to balance by yourself in "power assist mode" because as soon as you step on the Segway it will switch to "balance mode," but Gihgehls is smart, if you stand on the gearboxes Isidore, voila you can try to balance on your own using the throttle as necessary to go forward or backward.

Nice.

[Isidore]

Now that's really brilliant! I'll put on my crash helmet and kneepads and give it a try. If I beat 10 sec I'll post my time.