Buying Used??

[singman]

I saw a 2003 model with 12.0 bag for $2250. It sounds like it may have the original batteries in it so they will probably need to be replaced shortly (another $600). They are the old style batteries, and it has system 12.0.

Are the suspensions on the newer ones a lot better than the 2003 model? I plan on taking and using it camping so would prefer a comfortable ride; over the bumpy (arthritis in knees).

Any words of advice for a first time buyer??

Can repairs of gears and drive components be excessively high to fix?

My gut feeling is to wait a few months till I heal up and get a new 180 with a full warranty.

[Tarkus]

The 2003 model is the same as the 2005, except for software & cosmetic stuff. Of course the new modles are avail. eith the Lion batteries.

As far as gears & drive parts, it's been my experiance that all Segway parts are $$.

I've bought 3 used segs and 1 new 180. Never paid more than $2100.00 for 167/170. Two still had the shrink wrap on the fenders but of course the parking stands on all 3 used HT's were broken. Batteries all charged up and gave about 10 or 11 mi each.

If you plan on off road, I would save up for the XT (see Segway.com). You'll love it for it's soft ride but may have some problems if you want to take it into places.

Good Luck.

[polo_pro]

The XT model has big cushy tires that might be better suited for your condition. However, the XT recently came out and as such not many come up for sale used. So you'd have to spend at least twice what you're thinking of paying.

As to the batteries, your assumption is a good starting point. Just assume you'll have to replace them. However, with everyone switching over to Li Ion batteries, older NiMH batteries are flooding the market. You can pick up a used pair of NiMH for $200 and with several conditioning cycles, you may be able to get a year or two's service out of them. Hopefully, by then the Li Ion batteries will have come down in price and you can use the $400 you'll save towards them!

$2250 seems like a fair price depending on the condition of the I67.

[bystander]

singman,

Here is some information specificly about the suspension. The software, chassis and drive train on the I-167, I-170, and I-180 are virtually the same. Therefore the suspension characteristics are very similar. The XT has a few changes "under the hood" (that is, the software), and of course the tires / wheels are much different.

On the i-series, to give a softer ride, the tires can be inflated below the recommended pressure of 15.5 psi. Range will be decreased with lower tire pressure.

Also, a comfort mat can be placed on top of the regular mat. Segway Inc. offers one,

http://shop.segway.com/detail.aspx?ID=78

or you can "roll your own".

http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12816


Lastly, some gliders swear by extra padded shoes.

http://segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8708

http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1859


In my experience, I have operated my HT with two comfort mats without ill effects. However, a new glider may want to exercise caution at first, because the rider detect switches may not operate in their usual fashion with too much padding above them.

[wwhopper]

I would be more interested in where it has been, how it has been used, and how it has been stored.

A heavily used HT, like one in service for a tour operator, might not be a good buy. On the other hand a HT that has not been used, but has been sitting in a storage closet, might not be a good buy either, if it has not been kept charged, or had its control shaft cords updated, or other little glitches fixed.

Find out it's history and who was using it and for what, before you make any purchase decisions.

The machine is out of warranty, so any repairs will be coming out of your pocket and at the cost of $2250, a couple of repairs and new batteries, you could have bought yourself a new or nearly new machine.

If you are not an expereinced Segway owner, ask someone in your local Segway gliding Group - local SEG to go with you and check it out for you. No doubt there is someone nearby who has had several years experience with the HT, who you can con into looking at it. And buy them a beer for their time.

Will W Hopper
DCSEG Member
SEG America
The Premier Gliding Organization!
http://www.SEGAmerica.org
Washington DC - The Most Segway Friendly City in America!

[Desert_Seg]

Singman,

Will points out the most important issue....how was the HT used. Although hard to prove, you can tip the HT back and look at the batteries. Look for scars, gouges and the like.

If you can, pop a battery and check around the seals, this will tell a lot.

Steven

--- EAMUS CATULI! ---

No person is truly useless. They may always serve as a bad example!

[Murray Fisher]

The only suspension system on ALL Segway HT's is bending your knees slightly or running tire pressure lower. I have Osteo arthritis in one knee and am 84 years old. I have no problems. I put over 3K miles on mine last year!! The XT has low pressure tires and would make for a softer ride, but not too satisfactory in malls and stores etc. It is more for off road use.

quote:Originally posted by singman

I saw a 2003 model with 12.0 bag for $2250. It sounds like it may have the original batteries in it so they will probably need to be replaced shortly (another $600). They are the old style batteries, and it has system 12.0.

Are the suspensions on the newer ones a lot better than the 2003 model? I plan on taking and using it camping so would prefer a comfortable ride; over the bumpy (arthritis in knees).

Any words of advice for a first time buyer??

Can repairs of gears and drive components be excessively high to fix?

My gut feeling is to wait a few months till I heal up and get a new 180 with a full warranty.




Murray Fisher

[singman]

It was owned by an 84 year old gentleman who didn't use it a lot. There is some wear on the rims where paint has worn off but doesn't appear to be gouged or scratched.

The point about non-use perked my ears. I know that batteries will be necessary so now my price is at $2850. The new one does look a lot more inviting!!

I was told that the floor models will be going on sale in a few months, but would the battery life for me be decreased by the use already, and the constant charging in the shop? Save a few hundred to lose a years battery life doesn't make sense.

For the extra bucks, new is sounding better and better. Thanks for welcoming and advising a newbie to this forum!! I can't wait to add HT Owner to my ID!!

[Desert_Seg]

Oh, how much does this sound like the '63 Jaguar I was going to buy. It was owned by an old lady whose husband had passed away right after he bought it and all she ever did was drive it to and from Church every Sunday.

Car looked pristine too!

Remember, Caveat Emptor!

Steven

--- EAMUS CATULI! ---

No person is truly useless. They may always serve as a bad example!

[lwillis]

Don't assume you will need the new batteries. I have two I167's and both are a couple of years old. I bought each of them used. As long as the battery's were kept charged, they may just need to be used. There are older threads on here about how to charge/re-juvinate NiMH batteries. They still hold a charge but become like a weak "muscle" and lose their range of motion. But through "exercise this can be restored. I still get 6-8 miles out of mine. I've not been on a glide that required more then 8 miles (at least not yet <grin> )

Les Willis
Looking for a glide

[skywalker2000]

why the un-official battery FAQ disapperared?
http://www.seg-nh.com/SegwayBatteryFAQ.htm
anyone can help?

Segway is here!
Tom Lee

[cmonkey]

http://www.spinfoot.com/SegwayBatteryFAQ.html

I love my magic carpet!

[singman]

After some serious thinking and talks with the wife I will be talking to the dealer tomorrow about the used one. He feels comfortable with the people who had it, and feels it's a good buy.

The batteries are an unknown given, and he was upfront about "maybe" needing batteries in the next 6 months. Someone here made the comment about maybe getting some good used batteries from someone doing the lith-ion upgrade.

It still has some potential to trick out and upgrade the appearance. I like the new colors, but colors aren't everything (OK, I lie, but I can live with it for now).

[Runway01]

A hard testride, if You have some previous ridingexperience, on the candidate-seg and another "new" demomachine will reveal how it is. Take them both for a 3-mile ride. Compare. If it feels good, it probably is.

Mine is a newer tourmachine and it runs like a charm. We had the oportunity to try a few, and the one we went for felt the best, even if the differences where very very small...

Best of luck!

[singman]

I went over today, and the dealer (Keith) and I looked at the unit from all angles. The batteries look as though they may have been changed recently, the label is as clean as the day it was installed. No gouges, scrapes, or scuffs any where on the unit.

After a test ride inside (unfortunately) I took the plunge and bought the unit. I can now proudly say I'm a titanium i167 HT Owner. Now to wait and get the system upgrade done in March so as to be ready for the Lith-Ion upgrade if I decide.

He hopes to have the new handlebar guards in by March, so that will be my first accessory upgrade.

They sell the Segway Hauler, and it looks like a well made unit so I will probably buy one when I bring it home from the dealer. I'm also looking at the dust cover to keep the road dust off of it behind the motorhome.

Thanks for all your advice and reccomendations!!

[pam]

It is a very well made unit. Do be aware that the HT hauler (at least the one I bought) will work with the old batteries, but not with the Li-Ions. Just be sure, before you buy it, that you've covered all your bases.
Pam

[Tarkus]

Congrats ! I think the original 167 is the best looking of all HT's, and I own a 167,170,and a new 180.

Still think the 167 was the best looker.

Good luck

[singman]

The dealer was under the impression that with the new upgrade available you could still run the old batteries, but it would then be ready for the Lith-Ion if purchased.

[Tarkus]

If the Seg has 14.0 it will run both types of batteries.

[singman]

14.0 is the version he wants to install for me. Apparently they don't have the option to upgrade all the time so you have to seize the moment when they have the laptop available from Segway.

[bystander]

singman,

Pam is trying to warn you about the clearance problem with the original hitch hauler.

See this thread:
http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10699&whichpage=2

It's not a problem until you get the new batteries (which are thicker) and try to use it.

[Robbie]

Hmm...interesting that you say that. I've been considering the Segway hauler ...didn't realize there was a clearance problem with the lithiums.

In my case...I have a small car that's not rated for towing *anything* and I was debating the pros and cons of having a hitch put on it expressly for the purpose of hauling my HT around. (There's no way I can lift it in and out of my trunk.)

Does Segway make a hauler that CAN handle the Lithiums?

Robbie


I don't even butter my bread.
I consider that cooking.

[singman]

I'll ask the dealer about that. My i167 was sitting on display on the carrier, and it made a nice combination.

I'm guessing that his are all the newer style carriers.

[alurker]

I bought my hauler from Segway Inc. about three months ago and made sure to mention that I wanted the new version that accepted Li batts. I haven't upgraded yet, but my Ni batt Seg fits the new version hauler just fine. I guess you could call it 'backward compatible...'

Either that or they sent me the old version hauler - I won't know 'til I get the Li batts, I guess...


Got Wheels?

Tony

[alurker]

By the way...
I recently noticed that the yoke-style guide on the center column of the hauler (that mates with the c/s on the seg) is sharp-edged metal inadequately covered by a vinyl coating (dipped maybe)? The vinyl has cracked along the edges of the yoke and is scarring my c/s. Mybe I could slip a section of bicycle inner tube over the fingers of the yoke, or something?
Anyone else having this problem?


Got Wheels?

Tony

[bystander]

quote:Originally posted by Robbie

Hmm...interesting that you say that. I've been considering the Segway hauler ...didn't realize there was a clearance problem with the lithiums.

In my case...I have a small car that's not rated for towing *anything* and I was debating the pros and cons of having a hitch put on it expressly for the purpose of hauling my HT around. (There's no way I can lift it in and out of my trunk.)

Does Segway make a hauler that CAN handle the Lithiums?

Robbie


I don't even butter my bread.
I consider that cooking.
Yes, they make (or made) both kinds. There may be some of the old style in the retail pipeline. As far as I know the newer style will haul HTs with either battery type.

Also, the old kind can be modified by drilling out the rivets and bolting on a little spacer - if you are a do-it-your-self-er, or know one.

[singman]

Crazy question, but how does one know if they are getting the old or new version?

[bystander]

quote:Originally posted by singman

Crazy question, but how does one know if they are getting the old or new version?
It's my understanding that if the "yoke-style guide" mentioned by alurker only clears the control shaft base (CSB) by 1/2 to 3/4 inch when hauling a HT with NiMH packs, it's the old style.

The Saphion batteries are one inch thicker than the NiMH. Perhaps one could put the Sunday paper on the hauler before loading the NiMH equipped HT. Then check the clearance of the "yoke-style guide". If it contacts the CSB, instead of being slightly above it, you're going to have a problem later if you obtain Saphions.

[singman]

Near as I can remember the floor model had at least 2 inches between the platform and the bracket.

[bystander]

quote:Originally posted by singman

Near as I can remember the floor model had at least 2 inches between the platform and the bracket.
Maybe they've designed a new bracket since I've seen photo of the hitch hauler. The top of the CSB is six something inches above the platform. In the old design, the "guide" contacts the CS just above the CSB.

Did the hitch hauler you observed match this one from the Segway Inc. sales page?

[img.nr]http://shop.segway.com/images/shop/ht_hauler.jpg.lrg.jpg[/img.nr]

[singman]

Yes, the bracket was just above the base support like in the picture. He must have the new ones in stock, but will add it to my list of things to check upon pickup.

[bystander]

If the HT had NiMH packs installed when you saw it, and the bracket was "just above" the top of the CSB, then when the thicker Saphions are installed, the bracket will collide with the top if the CSB.

When NiMH packs are in the HT, the bracket needs to be one inch higher than the "just above" position.

Sorry to go on and on about this, It's just something I'd want to know about if I were about to purchase one.

By the way, does your motor vehicle already have the receiver installed?

[singman]

I have 2" receivers on all my vehicles, so I'm safe there. You're not being redundant at all, you're saving someone from making a $350 mistake!!

[Robbie]

So...when you say "2 inch receiver" are you referring to the ball itself that the hauler connects to? If not, what DO you mean? (I'm a total ignoramus on things like this.)

and, since the topic is still going....once you have the hitch on the car and the hauler on the hitch and the HT on the hauler...what mechanism raises the hauler up off the ground? Some sort of crank? A hydraulic thingy of some kind?

Before I invest in making this happen, I need to be sure that a lone female with no upper body strength can load and offload the Seg singlehandedly.

I plan to go check the hauler out in person when I get a chance, but my nearest Seg dealer is 100 miles away, and only open 4 hours a day......doesn't jive with my daily routine very well.


I don't even butter my bread.
I consider that cooking.

[singman]

I went to the dealer this morning and the carriers are designed specifically for the new Lith-Ion batteries. The bracket has at least 1-1/2" of clearance so the upgrade will not be a problem later on.

Thanks for the heads up!!

[bystander]

quote:Originally posted by Robbie

So...when you say "2 inch receiver" are you referring to the ball itself that the hauler connects to? If not, what DO you mean? (I'm a total ignoramus on things like this.)

and, since the topic is still going....once you have the hitch on the car and the hauler on the hitch and the HT on the hauler...what mechanism raises the hauler up off the ground? Some sort of crank? A hydraulic thingy of some kind?

Before I invest in making this happen, I need to be sure that a lone female with no upper body strength can load and offload the Seg singlehandedly.

I plan to go check the hauler out in person when I get a chance, but my nearest Seg dealer is 100 miles away, and only open 4 hours a day......doesn't jive with my daily routine very well.


I don't even butter my bread.
I consider that cooking.
The 2" receiver is a square cross-section of steel tube bolted or welded to your vehicles frame. The 2" refers to the size of square tubing that will fit into it. Another popular size is 1-1/4". You can get either size for Segway's hauler.

When pulling a trailer, the ball joint is bolted to the 2" tube that fits into the receiver. A ball joint is not used for Segway's hauler.

To find out about getting a receiver installed on your vehicle, check with your regular mechanic or try a store that sells campers or trailers. (perhaps Camping World, or the like) A friend of mine had a receiver put on their van to tow a trailer and found a local garage to do it.

There are other hitches out there, and there are even hoists. It gets expensive, but hardware used for carrying and attaching wheelchairs and electric wheelchairs can be used.

If you need to keep it low-cost, and you have a van or truck, ramps can be used. No upper body strength required, as the HT's own power-assist can be used.

[KSagal]

As usual, Bystander's explanation is dead on.

I would add a bit or use different words...

1. There are indeed 2 styles of hitch haullers out there. The new ones can accomodate either battery style, and the old ones can be modified. I have done it to mine... Send me an e-mail if you want details

2. A hitch reciever is simply a square 2 inch hole that stays on the back of your car. The carrier is the 2 inch square peg that goes into that hole and has a hitch ball on it that hooks up to your trailer. When using the hitch hauller, the carrier is removed and a peg is a part of the hauller that goes into that reciever...

3. The operation of the hitch hauller is that you ride the seg up to the back of the car, and then tilt the control shaft back away from the bumper. The hauler has a release that allows it's platform to also tilt down. You then push/roll the seg against the tilted platform and secure it with the included straps. Then, when you push up on the control shaft from it's tilted position to the vertical position that the picture above has it in, you are not only tilting the seg but lifting it as well. The design is such that most all people can do it, surely any reasonably healthy adult can...

The largest consern that some have expressed, and it is a real one, is that to secure the staps, you need to be able to get yourself fairly low to the ground. If you cannot bend your knees, or have a bad back and cannot bend over, you may prefer to use ramps and the power assist function.

As bystander has stated, there are other lifts and alternatives out there. There have been many threads on this chat about this very issue. Some of the lifts are very easy to use, but most are expensive.

Good luck...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[Robbie]

Thank both of you SO MUCH. I now have a much clearer understanding of the whole device. I think it would work for my car, so I'm gonna start checking it out...soon as I pay off Uncle Sam. Sigh.....

Robbie

I don't even butter my bread.
I consider that cooking.