Bike verses Segway

[blingbling]

I live in Florida around Pinellas trail while gliding on the trail some man on a bike road up next to me and started yelling at me about the use of the Segway on the tail. He insisted that the use of the Segway was illegal. I try to explain that the Segway has been approve by the parks department. So he drove off and corner some one in the parks department and pointed the finger at me, I road up there and he took off I ask what was said he told me that he explain to him that Segway has been approve but he seem a little bitter. Has anyone had any problems with bikers?
blingbling
9-23-05


blingbling

[X-man]

I do not believe the finger in reference was an insult to you.
He was simply informing you of his IQ.
Cyclists as a rule aren't a bad lot, just a little egocentric about their ability to buy funny clothes and motivate under their own power. As with any other group there are bound to be those that can see no other way other than their own and fail to see the forest but for the trees.
Pity them - there is nothing else you can do.

And flip them the bird.




Bob.

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.

[Stewbonz]

Most bike riders are usually OK untill they start wearing the silly outfits.

JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/

[SegwayDan]

I encounter a variety of attitudes from people in general--not just bikers. It's a scale. At the bottom are those who don't even see you. You're not even there. Others won't even look at you at all. Some look at you grimly and don't respond at all to your friendly "Hello!". Then there're those who "worry" about your not getting any exercise. Or they resent the fact that you're somehow "cheating"--as if there's some rule that there has to be some effort expended in one's moving along the sidewalk.

I guess you can get some satisfaction from temporarily being a target for the angry ones' frustration. If it weren't for you, the guy's poor wife might have been more of the brunt.

We're witnessing yet another culture shift possibly somewhat akin to the "reception" the first horseless carriages received from the dull and stupid.


quote:Originally posted by blingbling

I live in Florida around Pinellas trail while gliding on the trail some man on a bike road up next to me and started yelling at me about the use of the Segway on the tail. He insisted that the use of the Segway was illegal. I try to explain that the Segway has been approve by the parks department. So he drove off and corner some one in the parks department and pointed the finger at me, I road up there and he took off I ask what was said he told me that he explain to him that Segway has been approve but he seem a little bitter. Has anyone had any problems with bikers?
blingbling
9-23-05


blingbling


"Segway Dan" Swanson
727-403-2628
www.segwayclearwater.com

[terryp]

quote:Originally posted by SegwayDan

I encounter a variety of attitudes from people in general--not just bikers. It's a scale. At the bottom are those who don't even see you. You're not even there. Others won't even look at you at all. Some look at you grimly and don't respond at all to your friendly "Hello!". Then there're those who "worry" about your not getting any exercise. Or they resent the fact that you're somehow "cheating"--as if there's some rule that there has to be some effort expended in one's moving along the sidewalk.
[/quote]
Well said.

But then, there's the other end of that scale - the people who back off the sidewalk to let you pass, and return your wave and smile. The people who honk and give a thumbs up. The people who make a positive comment, and are excited to get a demo offer. The people who appreciate the technology.

It doesn't bother me that I'm ignored by many who don't 'get it', and I just ignore those that are verbal about it.

Segway - What's holding you up?

[X-man]

And then there that rare pretty young thing that says "Cool" which erases all the grumpy remarks for this old dude.



Bob.

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.

[Stewbonz]

Yea, I've got more important things to do than worry about some grumpy bike rider...

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/youngjarvis/detail?.dir=7d3a&.dnm=585a.jpg&.src=ph

JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/

[X-man]

I bet the Mrs. took the picture, Jeff.

Bob.

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.

[Sunday]

I have always enjoyed the satisfaction of walking past the cyclists on the trails, as they push their $3,000 uber cool mountain bike up the hill. Around here, bicycles are more of a fashion accessory for the car than a means of transporation. I tend to think of them as ear rings for Hummers.

I have been yelled at while walking, but only by trash in trucks and trash in an SUV. The cyclists mostly just zip past me as fast as they can, in an effort to simulate butter being spead over hot toast.

I just watched Crash, and realized that there is just a whole lot of anger in the world. Angry people walk, ride bikes, and drive cars-but I don't believe it is possible to be an angry perosn and glide your Segway. How could you, with that big Segway smile on your face? So next time, maybe offer the grumpy bikers a demo. They'll either agree and 'get it' or they'll just pedal off all puckered up.

Mark



Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

[tpkanaley]

We should always keep in mind that the person making the nasty comment is just a nasty person. Because they happen to be on a bike, in a pickup truck, or a cop doesn't make that "catergory" of people automatically bad. I get the gambit of reactions most every day and every day I laugh at some, get pissed at others, and even confront one or two a month -- and generally appease them.

Yesterday, as I was on a big HIGH and gliding home from fest I was crossing the street right in front of the White House, when someone in a car shouted "FAGGOT!" I stopped on a dime, in the intersection, made eye contact, and said, "Why yes, I am, thanks for noticing." He rolled up his window and looked the other way! I laughed ALL THE WAY HOME!

:)

[KSagal]

With regard to the last two posts...

If a person starts their relationship with me on a negative note, i.e. yelling a nasty comment, I do not feel inclined to let them have my $5000 seg, even for a moment. That level of disrespect is likely to extend to more than just the verbal.

I sometimes give them a verbal spar, but most often, they are ill equipt to actually converse or debate, just spew...

As far as comments comming from an individual as a representative of a group, I find this an interesting comment. The vast majority of seggers that I know think of ourselves as ambassadors for segways and our community. I think it is interesting, and accurate, that most others do not think of themselves as speaking for the group. I too know many bikers that are cool and many who are fools. I would say that those that over indulge in the silly spandex are likely to be the latter rather than the former.

Lastly, I never noticed the resemblance to a bundle of sticks... But of course the type to yell the comment is surely not likely to know the definition of the word...

He should have someone tell him of the old saying, "better to sit quiet and be thought the fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt."

I have always been amused at the type to yell out, but avoid any debate. At the same time, it seems very sad to me...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[cmonkey]

I had a nice conversation with someone on a bike just yesterday.
I passed a person riding a bike, and they caught up with me at a crosswalk.
He was intereseted in the seg, but that old comment finally came around, 'you don't get much exersize on that do you?' So I said 'that's not the point, it's a different form of transportation, just like your bike.' Then I asked him if he was getting exercise on his bike, and he said yes, a little bit, then I asked him, do you WANT to be exercising right now? (it was pretty warm out), and he said not really, so I said,'well there you go' and across the street I went.

Some people can communicate openly and intelligently and I have no problems speaking with them about the segway, others need a boot to the head and are better left ignorant and in my dust.

DS



I love my magic carpet!

[Tarkus]

I pay no attention, nor do I care what others may think or say.
I see no need to justify my choices to anyone.

http://www.segwaychat.com/photos/Tarkus/elp1tarkusfava.JPGTarkus-See me in my photo album

[Jman44]

I took my seg out for a ride yesterday and got three friendly honks and waves from three different cars passing by me. No bicyclist coments yet. So far the coment I most get is "woah thats cool"

Justin

[JohnM]

Isn't going for a glide on a recreational trail that was designed as a refuge for non-motorized activities like walking,running, skating and cycling just trolling for rude comments? Kinda like showing up at PETA rally in a fur coat.

I respect Segways out in traffic because they are a sensible alternative to automobiles. On a recreational path the Segway is an alternative to .... what?

JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235

[drolsinatas]

A guy in the city on a ten speed gave me 2 thumbs down a few weeks ago. I was puzzled for second. I thought to myself .."Why the hell does he feel that way?" I was beside myself in confusion. There is no reason to be against the Segway other then pure jealousy and anti-technology.

Tomorow is a big day in MA. for the Segway. I would go, but I have to work... and I think I'd make Segway look worse with my appearance. God I hope they don't get banned.

In conclusion, Bikes will never compare to Segways. Two completely different animals in my opinion. If we were to argue which is safer... I think Segway wins. Mostly because of it's top speed and breaking system.



This thing rules.

[KSagal]

quote:Originally posted by JohnM

Isn't going for a glide on a recreational trail that was designed as a refuge for non-motorized activities like walking,running, skating and cycling just trolling for rude comments? Kinda like showing up at PETA rally in a fur coat.

I respect Segways out in traffic because they are a sensible alternative to automobiles. On a recreational path the Segway is an alternative to .... what?

JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235


I agree with JohnM, after all, no one can recreate in any manner other than the way he thinks...

I don't feel these paths are in any way conducive to bicycles. They are clearly designed for those who can slow down and smell the roses... That is dangerous with those crazy reckless bicycles speeding around.

I guess it is all in the perspective. If you want to find negative, it is easy. What many seem to overlook is that it is just as easy to find the positive. Mostly, you don't find what you are not looking for, if you have a closed mind...


Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[Stewbonz]

".....like walking, running, skating and cycling"

I spend alot of time on sidewalks and rec trails on my Segway and bikes are the most uncompatable device I see.
The bike riders are by far the most dangerous thing out there.
They must be in motion to be stable and the speed they generally use makes it dangerous for everybody.
If I were to ride my Segway the way I see bike riders riding, I'd be called a menace to society.




JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/

[ions82]

It's not bicycles. It's not Segways. It's just people. I don't have a Seg (yet). However, I ride my handbike on a regular loop right in town that covers busy roads, side-streets, and bike paths. Every once in a while, I encounter a driver that thinks bikes should be nowhere near roads. I also pass people on foot travelling the BIKE path that think cyclists shouldn't be there, either. I equate these things to the cyclist that thinks Segways shouldn't be on paths. Maybe it just boils down to people wanting their voices to be heard. You can't pay them any mind. I agree with what SegwayDan said. Most of it is just people venting their frustrations on others. Seg on.

[Jman44]

The segway is an alternative to
a)bicycle
b)walking
c)running
d)cars
e)all of the above

[Red Seg]

quote:Originally posted by JohnM
I respect Segways out in traffic because they are a sensible alternative to automobiles. On a recreational path the Segway is an alternative to .... what?

John,
For several of our members the Segway is an alternative to a wheelchair that would be unable to take them back into nature. This machine has allowed many people reclaim a wonderful part of life. This story in the Red Key (www.theredkey.net/article.php?story=20050821215205374) is just one example.

Michael

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by KSagal
I agree with JohnM, after all, no one can recreate in any manner other than the way he thinks...
Glad that you agree with me...
quote:I don't feel these paths are in any way conducive to bicycles. They are clearly designed for those who can slow down and smell the roses... That is dangerous with those crazy reckless bicycles speeding around.
And I totally agree with you. On the Pinellas Trail there have been at least 3 cycling fatalities. (The latest being a 76 year old man on a Huffy who lost control trying to avoid three 7 year old girls on roller skates. Crazy? Reckless?) These types of trails are usually built to create a segregated 'seperate but equal' environment for users of alternative transportation, so that we don't interfere with the 'real' traffic, i.e. cars. That these mixed use trails are a safe place to recreate is a myth. The money used on such trails would be better spent making our streets and sidewalks safer for all users.

quote:I guess it is all in the perspective. If you want to find negative, it is easy. What many seem to overlook is that it is just as easy to find the positive. Mostly, you don't find what you are not looking for, if you have a closed mind...

Didn't I say I respected Segways? Negative? Some people just read what they want to see. I also respect your right to recreate in whatever way you want. But if you choose motorized recreation in an environment originally set aside for non-motorized recreation, well, be prepared for the occasional hostile comment. Not from me, however. I'll stick to the backroads and leave the recreational trails to the 7 year old girls on roller skates.

JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235

[tpkanaley]

quote:Originally posted by JohnM

Isn't going for a glide on a recreational trail that was designed as a refuge for non-motorized activities like walking,running, skating and cycling just trolling for rude comments?

First of all, "going out for a glide" is as much recreation as going out for a walk, a ride, a skate, or a run, so how rude to make such a presumption that you are therefore allowed to make a rude comment!

Second of all, where do you draw the line? IMHO a bicycle is a motorized vehicle. It has gears and a propulsion system and a power source (your legs, or arms if its a hand cycle). MOTOR does not automatically mean non-human powered...that is why laws have to specify "non-human powered" in most cases.

Third, many "recreational trails" are the best way of getting from point A to point B without subjecting yourself to hydrocarbon-fueled traffic ... so just because someone is on one of YOUR recreational trails, does not necessarily mean they are recreating.

And finally, I find it fascinating that you types think you are allowed everywhere and anyone different is somehow excluded from YOUR trails. I say, get off MY sidewalk and stay off MY streets, they are for pedestrian and pedestrian vehicles (HTs) and cars only! (of course I am being facetious in my last comment--however, please, get off your holier than thou pedestal. If people are being considerate and having fun, why does it matter that they're using your trail with a vehicle that is different from yours?)

[tpkanaley]

quote:Originally posted by JohnM
...
But if you choose motorized recreation in an environment originally set aside for non-motorized recreation, well, be prepared for the occasional hostile comment.
...


Interesting...Mirriam Webster defines MOTOR as: one that imparts motion; or any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion -- neither specifies non-human power.

Another definition is "A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy" ... hmmm, it would seem that a bicycle is indeed a "motor vehicle"

So get off the paths or expect some hostile comments towards your bike riding self.

(I find this "if you do this you should expect backlash" akin to blaming the woman who is being sexually harassed because she wore a short skirt!!)

[JohnM]

Tim's rants really don't deserve a reply, other than to say that it's another case of people reading what they want to see. If he had taken the time to actually read my post he would have seen that I don't ride on multi-use paths for safety reasons. Tim will just have to limit his hostile remarks towards me to this forum, since he will never see me on a sidewalk or recreational path.

JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235

[JRjr]

Let's see, back a while (the 19th Century) some folks said the horseless carriage would never last. Wrong. Later, these same types prophesied the aeroplane would never fly. Wrong. And the telephone? Not a chance. Talkies? Ha, a fad. Color talkies? Double Ha. The Hula-hoop though? They probably thought progressively and praised it for it's great potential. Now THAT'S foresight.

It seems some people are just very unimaginative and see any change as a threat to their "rights." How sad for them and their judgemental narrowmindedness.

Perhaps our bicyclist friend should see the results of the Federal study showing how safe Segways actually are, and how much safer they are than, yes, you guessed it, bicycles. Of course hot-dogs will always pose a threat to others regardless of WHAT they ride, all depending on HOW they ride. But to say only you as a bicyclist have rights is the height of arrogance.

You know, there is room for everyone, and if people just respected each other's diversity more this country could better live up to its promise... so, "Can't we just all get along?" And, oh yes, welcome to the 21st Century.

[tpkanaley]

Now John, I am not being hostile, ... you are. You said Segway riders should be ready for hostile comments, and that is hostile. You are basically condoning the hostile comments, whether you are there to make them or not. And that is my point. Condoning that hostility is just as bad as being hostile yourself. Perhaps it is you who should re-read your own post.

And I did read that you allegedly "respect" Segways. Apparently, however, you do not respect their owners or their riders. A shame really.

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by tpkanaley

Now John, I am not being hostile, ... you are. You said Segway riders should be ready for hostile comments, and that is hostile. You are basically condoning the hostile comments, whether you are there to make them or not. And that is my point. Condoning that hostility is just as bad as being hostile yourself. Perhaps it is you who should re-read your own post.

And I did read that you allegedly "respect" Segways. Apparently, however, you do not respect their owners or their riders. A shame really.
Tim, Tim Tim.... Go back to my analogy of wearing a fur coat to a PETA rally: Was I advocating fur coats or animal rights? Neither, its just a fact of life that there are extremists and name-callers on both sides of nearly all issues. Showing up in the opposition's camp is a sure way of drawing flak from the name-calling element. That's I fact of life that I'm well very aware of and prepared to deal with.

JohnM
846 posts - If I were hostile towards Segways the moderators would have tossed me out long ago.

[KSagal]

quote:Originally posted by JohnM

quote:Originally posted by tpkanaley

Now John, I am not being hostile, ... you are. You said Segway riders should be ready for hostile comments, and that is hostile. You are basically condoning the hostile comments, whether you are there to make them or not. And that is my point. Condoning that hostility is just as bad as being hostile yourself. Perhaps it is you who should re-read your own post.

And I did read that you allegedly "respect" Segways. Apparently, however, you do not respect their owners or their riders. A shame really.
Tim, Tim Tim.... Go back to my analogy of wearing a fur coat to a PETA rally: Was I advocating fur coats or animal rights? Neither, its just a fact of life that there are extremists and name-callers on both sides of nearly all issues. Showing up in the opposition's camp is a sure way of drawing flak from the name-calling element. That's I fact of life that I'm well very aware of and prepared to deal with.

JohnM
846 posts - If I were hostile towards Segways the moderators would have tossed me out long ago.


John, I am curious, who made you the one that decides who owns what trail? Those multi use trails are dangerous, by your own comments... What danger is there, absent a bike? Did your 7 year old girls kill themselves or was it a man on a bike that lost control?

Tell me honestly, do you think that those trails are more dangerous because of the segs? Or do you just think that segs don't deserve the same rights as roller blades or joggers?

I maintain that if there were no bikes using those multi use trails, there would be less accidents, especially those involving a serious injury...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[tpkanaley]

1st, Karl, thanks!

2nd, John John, John (apparently John feels its okay to condescend),
Wearing a fur coat to a PETA rally is hardly the same thing, your statement about expecting to be harassed is much more akin to my "blaming the victim" scenario. So long as Segways are not banned by ordinance, they are allowed on YOUR precious trails (that you don't apparently use, so why you started this line of thought in the first place is a mystery). If someone chooses to use a mode of conveyance on those trails other than a "standard" mode -- such as a bike or rollerblade (talk about no safety features!), they should not EXPECT torment, just as the woman in the miniskirt should not EXPECT harassment or worse.

MY PROBLEM with your line of thinking is not whether I will be harassed or not, its that you are condoning it by saying I should expect it. Should I expect to be called a fag because I can't catch a baseball but I go to the park and throw one around with a friend anyway??

If you cannot understand that, you have a little learnin' to do.

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by KSagal

John, I am curious, who made you the one that decides who owns what trail? Those multi use trails are dangerous, by your own comments... What danger is there, absent a bike? Did your 7 year old girls kill themselves or was it a man on a bike that lost control?

Tell me honestly, do you think that those trails are more dangerous because of the segs? Or do you just think that segs don't deserve the same rights as roller blades or joggers?

I maintain that if there were no bikes using those multi use trails, there would be less accidents, especially those involving a serious injury...
Karl, again I'm in agreement with you. Yes, if the trails were free of bikes there would be fewer accidents, since over 60,000 bike trips are made on the Pinellas Trail each month. The question is whether those trips would be safer in the streets. Based on accident studies (done in areas other than Florida) the answer would seem to be yes. Why? I'll point you to the Bicycle Traffic Institute for their article on 'bikepaths', aka MUTs, multi-use trails: http://www.bicycledriving.com/bikepaths.htm . A more scholarly study by John Forester on why the government builds such facilities can be found here: http://www.johnforester.com/Articles/Facilities/ebabmv.htm .

Want details on the old man's fatal crash? All I know is what I read in the newspapers. Try the story in the St.Pete Times: http://snipurl.com/PinellasCrash . My personal take is that bikes and skaters, especially kids, don't mix. The brakes on his cheapo Huffy (the Q of the bike world) didn't help and the design of the overpass allowed him to exceed a speed that he and his brakes could safely handle. A total foul up.

Who owns the trails? The state, county and local governments of course. And in the end all the citizens. But most trails, like the Pinellas, are proposed and fought for by local pedestrian and bike groups who erroniously think they are creating a safe private playground for their exclusive use. These are the folks that are most likely to vocally object to Segways being added to the user mix, not me. And they will object to having 'their' turf invaded.

Lastly, the safety of Segways on MUTs. Given the unregulated nature of these trails and the diversity of the users, not only by activity, but age and skill, I think anyone looking for safety would be better off elsewhere. However, the Segway with its low speed, great braking and high manueverability would be in a good position for accident avoidance. Enjoy yourselves. I'll be somewhere else getting some healthy and safe exercise.

JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235

[Stewbonz]

Good debate.

John has a excellent point. The group that proposes the trail erroniously believe they own it.
In my home town it was the Horse people that were banning the Mountain Bike people.

All these groups should be working together with pedestrians to eliminate cars and promote greener transport, making life better for all.



JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/

[tpkanaley]

quote:Originally posted by JohnM
Enjoy yourselves. I'll be somewhere else getting some healthy and safe exercise.

JohnM


Why is it that John can't say anything nice without saying something nasty? Clearly this comment is meant as a slam.

John, I run marathons and am training for a triathlon, ... just because I ride a Segway... and don't own a car, by the way ... doesn't mean I am not healthy or safe ... and interestingly enough, more Segway owners than not that I have met are in GREAT shape!

[Stewbonz]

"Why is it that John can't say anything nice without saying something nasty?"

You'd be in a foul mood too if you had that bike seat crammed up you butt for 20 hours:D

JEFF JARVIS
http://www.thailandsegwaytours.com/

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by Stewbonz

You'd be in a foul mood too if you had that bike seat crammed up you butt for 20 hours:D
That's not it, cuz I've got a Brooks B.17. What can you say about a saddle that has been in production, virtually unchanged, for over a hundred years? Design perfection.
If the Segway came with a B.17 Champion Special (Ti rails of course) I might consider owning one someday. Why stand when you can sit in comfort?

Crankiness just comes with age.

JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235

[bystander]

quote:Originally posted by JohnM

If the Segway came with a B.17 Champion Special (Ti rails of course) I might consider owning one someday. Why stand when you can sit in comfort?Careful what you say. This could be out as early as next month. It ain't a B.17, but it's a start.

Seg Seat Site (http://www.segseat.com/)

[tpkanaley]

quote:Originally posted by bystander
...This could be out as early as next month. It ain't a B.17, but it's a start.

Seg Seat Site (http://www.segseat.com/)


and its awesome.

[SegwayDan]

Safe, schmafe. That's a separate matter for individuals using the trail with whatever conveyance, machine or foot. It takes simply due vigilance, alertness, and at least a little agility to get out of the way when necessary. Whether or not it's the Pinellas Trail makes no difference. Dull-witted, unobservant people manage to "purchase the farm" wherever they are. Safety comes from the individual, not from an environment or set of regulations.

Who owns the trails? It's you and me when we're there, though it may depend on a little courage now and then to stand up for what's right, which is what is per the rules, and/or whatever level of common sense you're able to conjur up at the time of confrontation.

Touching again briefly on the matter of Segway use on the Pinellas Trail, or any Pinellas County park, for that matter, I received just today an e-mail in response to my recent query regarding any updates on Segway use (from Ms. Leah Hoffman, the Pinellas County Parks and Recreation Manager):

"As stated in my response letter to you [dated Feb 15, 2005] (http://www.homepage.mac.com/adobephile/PinellasCoLetter.pdf), Florida State Statute sets the
precedence of allowing segways on the Trail providing they are used
according to Trail rules and operated in a safe manner. Trail personnel
have been made aware of the State Statute concern segways and should not
be a problem to you or your wife during your use of the Trail. You are
welcome to carry a copy of the letter to show people who may question
you or your wife, but I would not consider it "ammunition" but rather an
educational opportunity."



quote:Originally posted by JohnM
Who owns the trails? The state, county and local governments of course. And in the end all the citizens. But most trails, like the Pinellas, are proposed and fought for by local pedestrian and bike groups who erroniously think they are creating a safe private playground for their exclusive use. These are the folks that are most likely to vocally object to Segways being added to the user mix, not me. And they will object to having 'their' turf invaded.

Lastly, the safety of Segways on MUTs. Given the unregulated nature of these trails and the diversity of the users, not only by activity, but age and skill, I think anyone looking for safety would be better off elsewhere. However, the Segway with its low speed, great braking and high manueverability would be in a good position for accident avoidance. Enjoy yourselves. I'll be somewhere else getting some healthy and safe exercise.

JohnM


"Segway Dan" Swanson
727-403-2628
www.segwayclearwater.com

[KSagal]

quote:Originally posted by JohnM

My personal take is that bikes and skaters, especially kids, don't mix. The brakes on his cheapo Huffy (the Q of the bike world) didn't help and the design of the overpass allowed him to exceed a speed that he and his brakes could safely handle. A total foul up.


JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235


John, I feel it could be said that you are showing your true colors. In this event, of which I only know what you told me, you list both the bike and the trail as responsible, not the irresponsible biker.

It seems to me that anyone can be irresponsible, but the better the mechanical advantage your method of conveyance, the more trouble you can cause. Surely we can all agree that irresponsible drivers (Drunk and otherwize) use their cars to cause all sorts of problems...

Since Bikes offer a greater mechanical advantage than a set of rollerblades or a skate board, it makes sense to me that it also allows the user to reach higher levels of menace.

Now, segs have built in governors on them that prevent irresponsiblilty beyond a specific point. You can still be bad, but not as bad as someone on a different item, like a bike...

Let us not forget that kids running into people while running on their feet is often enough to cause problems... You do not need a mechanical advantage, but it does escalate your potential to do harm...

Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[JohnM]

There are plenty of statistics that show that bikes are more likely to get into trouble operating in a pedestrian environment than in a vehicular environment. That's a neat thing about bikes: We've got over a hundred years of real world experience to know what works for us and what doesn't. For that reason, many cities have laws against bikes on sidewalks. Here in NH it's actually state law. Yet if we rename the sidewalk a 'recreational trail', then somehow it becomes ok to mix up cyclists with walkers, runners, skaters, gliders, baby strollers, kids, dogs and occasionally horses. Sorry, but I don't buy it. I'll leave the sidewalks and trails to you guys and seek out class V & VI roads for fun. Sorry to say, though, I'm an atypical cyclist (http://www.deerfieldcycling.org/), so be wary of the rest of the peloton on the MUTs.

With due vigilance, alertness, and at least a little agility I may be able to thread my bike thru a snake pit, too. But its not something I would do for recreation. Nor would I vouch for the safety of the snakes.

JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235

[JohnM]

quote:Originally posted by KSagal

It seems to me that anyone can be irresponsible, but the better the mechanical advantage your method of conveyance, the more trouble you can cause. Surely we can all agree that irresponsible drivers (Drunk and otherwize) use their cars to cause all sorts of problems...

Since Bikes offer a greater mechanical advantage than a set of rollerblades or a skate board, it makes sense to me that it also allows the user to reach higher levels of menace.
Again, I agree. And if you want to glide on a multi-use recreational trail, that's a menace you will have to deal with. But it won't be me menacing you because I'll be riding where its safer for me to put that mechanical advantage to use, the street. It's the less savvy Huffy riders who have bought into the trail safety myth that you will have to contend with. Compounding the problem, these people think they have more of a right to the trail since they had it built.

JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235