What Your Print Number Means

[SegwayLongIsland]

I spoke to someone in Tech Support today with a variety of questions about service.
How long do batteries last before replacement is needed? "About 500 charges of full draining use".

What do replacement batteries cost? "In the Hundreds of dollars, batteries are expensive you know."

What is the most common technical problem you've seen? "It really varies, flat tires, blowouts, etc. They're pretty reliable. We tested them in the Bronx on City Island and around Manhattan to get an idea of rough city exposure."

What do the print numbers mean? (I snuck that one in!)

"The print numbers mean absolutely nothing! We had all the tubes filled with the prints from the supplier lying on a table. As we processed your order, we printed a label with your address on it, walked over to the table and randomly grabbed a tube with a print in it, stuck on the label and sent it. Totally random."

So ends the print # mystery.

[Peter iNova]

Thanks for the research. I guess being 2071 in a random line doesn't feel so late any more...

-iNova

[emanresu]

It will be interesting to hear from PT and others in a year or two on battery life. Since they got theirs first, and PT is a regular commuter, his will be a good benchmark. I would guess it will be more than 500 cycles.

[pt]

-a cycle is full charge to zero charge, in 60 days (and over 200 miles) i've only done that once. so at the most i would use up about 6-7 cycles max per year at this rate.

-after 200 miles the tires appear brand new still and i take "crazy" terrain, at least i think so.

-my guess is that battery technology will always improve and by the time i need new ones, i'll upgrade to something better if it's available. batteries (while expensive) are cheap compared to what i was shelling out for my car, insurance, parking, etc..

cheers,
pt

http://www.bookofseg.com

[drucilla]

pt, do you mean to say that topping off a battery does not have an accumulative effect? I always figured it would. Say topping off three times would have the same effect as one full drain..or something like that..? hmm..lack of education is showing again,.lol

mind if my segway and i pass?

[pt]

drucilla-

i'm pretty sure that doesn't count as a cycle, at least that's my understanding from training. even if it did, i wouldn't hit more than 80 cycles in one year (i use my ht about 20 days per month x 12 months= 240 days, which mean 240 charges-- each 3 times would = 80 total).

cheers,
pt

http://www.bookofseg.com

[drucilla]

so thinking that way, your batteries could last over 6 years? Thats great...I have a rechargeable Toro lawn mower. I use it about 200 days a year and have replaced the battery every 2 years at 100 dollars each time. I'd say that the Segway cost would be pretty good by comparison.

mind if my segway and i pass?

[emanresu]

I am sorry PT, but you lose me here... Don't you fully charge at least every 11 miles?quote:Originally posted by pt

-a cycle is full charge to zero charge, in 60 days (and over 200 miles) i've only done that once. so at the most i would use up about 6-7 cycles max per year at this rate.

-after 200 miles the tires appear brand new still and i take "crazy" terrain, at least i think so.

-my guess is that battery technology will always improve and by the time i need new ones, i'll upgrade to something better if it's available. batteries (while expensive) are cheap compared to what i was shelling out for my car, insurance, parking, etc..

cheers,
pt

http://www.bookofseg.com

[pt]

emanresu-

i've gone a total of 200 miles, not all at once (was that what you meant?).

cheers,
pt

http://www.bookofseg.com

[MrTechno]

quote:Originally posted by Segway Long Island

I spoke to someone in Tech Support today......
What do replacement batteries cost? "In the Hundreds of dollars, batteries are expensive you know."

I believe the current batteries cost $299 and the Segway takes two of the packs. Doesn't seem too bad when you compare it to the cost of your tiny cellphone battery.

[Peter iNova]

Charge and re-charge ultimately are a phenomenon at the molecular level. How many times can you pop that molecule into this state and then back to that, back and forth before it doesn't fit any more due to stresses, alterations, twists of sub-chunk A, etc.

I picture these potential-carrying molecules as small spring-loaded machines. The springiness is provided by the presence or absence of spare electrons distributed inside a complex 3D shape. Molecules eventually get changed --break-- due to all the things mechanical parts experience, only in stranger ways. Anything that permanently alters their shape, for instance.

NiMH technology has its limits, Lithium Ion has other limits. NiCad has so many limits that it isn't popular any more at all. And all because the back-and-forth re-setting of the molecules is not a perfect mirror process.

I'm a tad surprised to see that they didn't adopt Lithium Ion, but I'll bet there are good reasons.

The 500 charges is not an absolute by any means. Other things can stress or grease the molecular processes. Slow charging/draining is good. Fast charging/draining is stressful. Heat is stressful in both directions, too. Optimum charging is not so stressful. Good chargers work to the temperature profile of the batteries at hand. I don't know the inner tech of these, but would Dean sell us a non-optimum charger? Not likely.

So I would take the 500 charges with a grain of pepper. That's a supplier spec, not a report from the front lines of the way any specific individual will experience them. Why you might actually be benefitting your cells by frequent use. Maybe you will get 800 charges.

-iNova

http://www.digitalsecrets.net/glidewalk/Home.html

[Brooster]

Thanks Peter, that's one of the better discourses on batteries I've seen. You obviously know your stuff. Segway LLC has said from the beginning that we can expect 300-500 cycles. In any case, that's a lot of Wayseggin'.

Brooster

[Brooster]

What the print numbers we've seen so far mean to me ... is that the initial offering is limited to about 2,500 units.

Brooster

[emanresu]

PT, so go slow with me here. Let's say you travel 15 miles a day, almost fully discharging your Seg. You charge it up overnight. Is that not one full cycle? Would the inference be that if you did that everyday, you would need new batteries in a year (365 charges)? I'm not trying to be clever here, quite the opposite. It seems like that would be a little shorter life than I would hope for, and I realize very few would use it that much- but some will.

[pt]

emanresu-

that makes sense (if that's the way it works) if you traveled 15 miles per day (and went from a full charge to zero) that might be a cycle and you'd have almost a year and a half of doing that if you did that each day, everyday. if you're using the ht that much, batteries are cheap compared to the savings you'd be getting for whatever you replaced to use the ht that much. i think i use the ht more than most will and i'm not worried about the batteries, i'm set for at least a year+.

i would say, you'd be more likely to get 2 years or so. by then, we'll most likely have improved batteries as well.

cheers,
pt

http://www.bookofseg.com

[drucilla]

I guess I'm not understanding it. No problem, with experience(soon I hope), I'll get better...lol

mind if my segway and i pass?