Key settings

[yosgof]

Long last I got my key making equipment. So while Deviant was kind enough to make some very nice keys for me I now have my own key making capability. I’ve managed to make a working key and am very happy about it.

My favorite so far is a Red key with turning rate half way between yellow and red. It feels just right.

Any other suggestions?

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[cmonkey]

i created a demo key for myself.... 3.5 mph and turning rate about 20% less than balck. I find that the black key is good for inside demos, but having a slower key is safer for outside demos.

david s

I love my magic carpet!

[Mr. Protocol]

Yeah, if you have an i180 (or anything, really, with 14.0 software) you can play with the timeout thingie. I have two keys which have red-key parameters, but one times out and one doesn't. If I'm going somewhere public, where having a brainwave and wandering away from a parked-but-running Segway in power assist would be bad, I use the timeout key. If I'm headed home, where parking it while opening the door, appeasing the Fenris wolves that live next door, etc., would lead to a timeout, I'll use the non-timeout key.

[Zorba9]

Glad you're up to speed finally Yossi! There is nothing like getting all you can out of your machine. As a new rider you exceed your limitations before the Segways (you like a slower turning speed on red). Us long term gliders sometimes squeeze all we can out of our Segs and are left wanting more!
If I want to turn slower on red I just turn the grip lightly -- but sometimes you just have to spin in place like a dervish! :)

KOG

Zorba9.....

[voiceguy]

Yossi,

I have been interested in your Segway adventure for a couple months now and have been anticipating along with you the day you would get your Seg...and then your red key (red key speeds anyway)!

I'd be interested in your thoughts/reactions to the speed of the Red key over the yellow etc..

Enjoy!

Voiceguy

"Every journey of a thousand feet ... begins with but a single lean forward..."

Corporate and commercial voices www.isdnvoices.com

[RoadGlide]

Amazing! I was thinking on my glide to work this morning that I'd like the red key to trun at the rate of the yellow key. Somehow I've missed the part programming them.

Anyone tried red speed, yellow turn or is 1/2 way between red and yellow the sweet spot for turning? The red key turns too quickly for my taste.

Jeff

[4Segway]

I have a red speed, yellow turn for three out of four of our machines. When I use the red/red it is just too fast of a turn for me. I love the red/yellow combination.

Everyone has their own likes and dislikes.

I also glide to BART on my Segway every morning in SF.


Laura

[yosgof]

Guys,

Thanks for your interest and keeping up with my “adventure”. This weekend is dedicated to Red key gliding and I’ll post my experiences later.

Mr. Protocol, what is the field that controls the timeout?

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[Mr. Protocol]

One field in the key is fixed at A3. Change it to E3 and you'll get a key that times out.

[florin]

Since I now have my own HT, I'm getting more interrested in making my own keys.

Which IButton reader do you recommend (serial/usb), which tools do you use? etc.

I have found this website: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/halon/segcrc.html but I find it quit difficult to understand how this thing works. Isn't there a way that you can just read the data of on your keys, use it as input in some program, you select the settings that you want from a GUI and it generates automaticly a new file. Or am I now thinking too optimistic?

Kind regards,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[bystander]

florin,

The site you found can be used to modify the data in your key. It does look a bit complicated, but fortunately you won't need to change anything in the "CRC parameters:" section.

I do not have a key reader/writer myself, but it is my understanding that when you read your key, you will get some data similar to the first line (that is, the first 16 bytes, or up to the point where the "55"s start) of the box entitled "IBF Data" on the webpage you indicated.

For example:
73 DF 00 00 01 23 45 67 89 AB CD EF A3 19 00 B0The first two bytes are the checksum and will be changed when you change the option bytes. The next two, here both zeros, will really be two other numbers. (Do not change them from what your key reads them as). The next eight bytes will be the 16 digit code printed on your "key tag" that you got with your new key. The last four bytes are for the options.

That data would be entered in the large box in the section entitled "Key sequence:". Next, you would select the "Speed Select" and "Turn(rate) Select" dropdown boxes in the "Parse result:" section. The "Compute CRC button would be pushed, which causes new data to be placed in the "IBF Data" section. One would then place this data in the ibutton key writer application, where it can be written to the key.

ToyBuilder, one of the early SegwayChat members, has a thread (http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11449) in the Buy & Sell forum which has some information about hardware and software. He hosts a couple of programs on his website:quote:keywrite.exe - iButton programming software; requires TMEX drivers from Dallas Semi.
segkey.exe - performs Segway key checksum calculations.
If I recall correctly, the location of timeout option byte mentioned by yosgof and Mr. Protocol is the 13th byte, which is the one just before the max speed select byte.

[florin]

Thanks for the explenation Bystander.

Kind regards,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[florin]

Just a small aditional question: can you overwrite a key or is it that you can only write a key once?

Thanks in advance,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[MagiMike]

Keys can be over written to change values.

[bystander]

Yes, the ibuttons supplied with the Segway HT can be re-written.

Here is the ibutton website:

http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/ibutton/

You can order ibuttons and ibutton reader/writers from the website. One can also find some FAQs and overviews to read there.

ibuttons were developed by Dallas Semiconductor, which has since been purchased by Maxim.

The part number is DS1993L. If you look closely at your key, you should see this part number and some other writing on it. This is a 4kb (memory) sized part. Larger memory sizes of the same NV (non volatile) line will also work, such as the DS1995L & DS1996L. The HT only seems to read the first 16 bytes of the 4096 byte ibutton anyway, so having more than 4k is overkill.

If anyone knows for sure whether any of the others are suitable for use, please chime in.

I've not ordered from Maxim, so I don't know if their delivery time estimates are accurate or not. You may find other threads here in the in the SegwayChat forums with more detailed information on that.

P.S. MagiMike posted before I finished mine, I guess I just should have said "Yes" and left it at that...

[florin]

Thanks for all the information, I will take a look into all the info and see if it is interresting to buy it.

I also want to find out if there are places in europe (or in the Netherlands) where you can buy them, that would save me the import-tax from the customs.

Thanks again for all the info.

Kind regards,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[yosgof]

I’ve ordered from Maxim. The order shipped after a week or so.

I ordered their iButton starter kit which includes 5 different iButton types (part numbers). So far I tried three out the five and they work perfect.

I will make a more accurate test of the various iButtons and post conclusive results here.

I had to import mine from the US. In Israel this is easier (and much cheaper) than importing from Europe.

The Tool (with a capital T) for making keys is this: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/halon/segcrc.html

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[florin]

quote:Originally posted by yosgof

I’ve ordered from Maxim. The order shipped after a week or so.

I ordered their iButton starter kit which includes 5 different iButton types (part numbers). So far I tried three out the five and they work perfect.

I will make a more accurate test of the various iButtons and post conclusive results here.

I had to import mine from the US. In Israel this is easier (and much cheaper) than importing from Europe.

The Tool (with a capital T) for making keys is this: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/halon/segcrc.html

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg



Hi Yossi,

Which of the 3 kits do you have?

I figured out how the Tool is working, actually quit simple to use:D

Thanks in advance,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[yosgof]

Florin,

This is the kit: http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2975/ln/

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[bystander]

quote:The Tool (with a capital T) for making keys is this: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/halon/segcrc.html
By the way, this page (the segcrc.html file) can be saved to your computer and executed from there in a browser without having to be on the internet.

Might be obvious to many, but just in case someone hadn't heard that one yet.

[florin]

Hi again,

Just one more question:

Would the DS1992L-F5 (1KB IButton) also be ok to use? Or do you need to have 4 KB size as minimum?

The DS1993L-F5 is out of stock at the moment, the DS1992L-F5 will be easier to get and is also a bit cheaper.

Thanks in advance,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[Kramer]

Hi florin - I have ordered one week ago and received everything today including DS1993L-F5. I live in Austria and the parcel came from England.

Took 30 minutes to get a whole set of new keys including a green and a blue one. Still trying different settings.

Regarding your question:
http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6446
http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7908

Kramer

[florin]

quote:Originally posted by Kramer

Hi florin - I have ordered one week ago and received everything today including DS1993L-F5. I live in Austria and the parcel came from England.

Took 30 minutes to get a whole set of new keys including a green and a blue one. Still trying different settings.

Regarding your question:
http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6446
http://www.segwaychat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7908

Kramer



Hi Kramer,

Thanks for your reply. I think I now know everything that I need to know about making keys.

Tommorow I will check with some of my segway friends if they are interrested in spare keys and then I think I will place the order.

Thanks Kramer and all the others for giving me all the information.

Kind regards,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[joelkfla]

I don't know if this still works, but ...

If you dig around enough on the Maxim site, there is a place to request samples. When I first purchased my reader, I requested samples of several different i-Buttons and fobs, and got them all -- FREE!

I did get at least one of the smaller memory buttons, but I never got around to trying it.

joelk

[yosgof]

Joelkfla - Do you think that advising someone to be a freeloader is a good policy?

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[florin]

quote:Originally posted by yosgof

Joelkfla - Do you think that advising someone to be a freeloader is a good policy?

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg



[u]Before I forget it:</u>
Joel, thanks for the tip, when I have received the samples I will let you know if everything was send to me. Dutch people are always eager to save a few bucks, so I really appreciate the tip.



Hi Yossi,

If I understand your comment correctly, you think there is something wrong with telling somebody that there is a way to get free samples. What would be wrong about it?

I think it's a smart move from Maxim to provide free samples. If they want to give away free samples to encourage people to use their products I don't see any problem in it.

I followed Joel's advise and if I may believe the confirmation e-mail I will get the reader, USB connector, several IButtons and fobs for free. If I understand it even correctly I got 2 samples of everything.

Ofcourse I first have to see if I also get everything, but everything what I can get for free, saves money from my wallet and if I'm convinced that it's easy to make segway keys I might go making keys for others which means money for Maxim. So personally I think it's a smart strategy/business-case from Maxim.

Kind regards,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[voiceguy]

Florin,

You I think make a good point. In my voice-over business, I have from time to time given free samples if you will -- short recordings for people to use on their websites or telephone systems etc -- and it led in enough cases to future business to make the giving out of free samples viable.

Voiceguy

Corporate and commercial voices

"Every journey of a thousand feet ... begins with but a single lean forward..."

[yosgof]

Free samples are intended for businesses which want to evaluate stuff towards commercially buying it (or not) later. Gee – I guess that’s why they call them “samples”.

Clearly this is no the case here because I don't think you'll be going into a commercial production of iButton related products any time soon.

If you do - I offer my deepest apologies.

Otherwise its just an abuse of the good will of the company which in my book is very close to software piracy and fraud. Lucky we can’t just download an iButton from KaZaa.

I saw the free samples offer, yet I elected to buy fully knowing that other than the 10 units I bought, I most probably will not buy any units any time soon.

Suggest you do the same.

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg

[florin]

quote:Originally posted by yosgof

Free samples are intended for businesses which want to evaluate stuff towards commercially buying it (or not) later. Gee – I guess that’s why they call them “samples”.

Clearly this is no the case here because I don't think you'll be going into a commercial production of iButton related products any time soon.

If you do - I offer my deepest apologies.

Otherwise its just an abuse of the good will of the company which in my book is very close to software piracy and fraud. Lucky we can’t just download an iButton from KaZaa.

I saw the free samples offer, yet I elected to buy fully knowing that other than the 10 units I bought, I most probably will not buy any units any time soon.

Suggest you do the same.

- Yossi
http://gallery.photo.net/photo/3365119-lg.jpg


Hi Yossi,

Apologies accepted ;). Yes, I'm seriously thinking about making some kind of commercial service out of it.

I checked with my dealer here in the netherlands, a set of 3 spare keys cost 50 euro (excluding VAT), as far as I have seen now, I can probably make them for 10-12 euro per key, so 3 keys for 30-36 euro (including VAT) + shipping ofcourse.

I don't need to get rich of it, it's just that I want to do it as some kind of cheap service towards the segway community.

With 2 official dealers and a whole bunch of unofficial dealers selling segways in the Netherlands and Belgium, I think that there is definetly some business here with the keys.

Why would there be a business, LLC doesn't deliver a spare key with the HT anymore, with the older models you received 2 red keys, so you could put one of them safe at home. When you lost your keys, in the worst case, you could call to home and ask someone to bring the spare key. With the new models, in worst case, you have to go walking and waiting until your new keys are send from LLC towards your dealer, this might take some time.

Take care,

Florin


Visit http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo if you want to stay up-to-date on the situation about the Segway HT in the Netherlands.
http://www.florin-webdesign.nl/segwayinfo/uploads/cavt41287ea7e3ec0

[toybuilder]

*soapbox rant*

The samples are intended for designers who are actively working on a product to see if the product will work. I think florin's case is borderline -- while he is considering offering key making services to others, he has obtained the samples for his own personal use.

I do electronics/embedded systems work professionally, so I get samples all the time from Dallas and other manufacturers. They are quite generous with these programs because they want their components to gain a "design win".

When we develop a device for "in-house use" (i.e., we don't plan on selling the particular device that we make), we pay for the those "one-sies/two-sies" component, unless it's clear that the device will be used to help sell more of that manufacturer's products.

About four years ago, I sampled three different single-board computers; one each from IBM, NEC, and Alchemy (now part of AMD). After initial tests, we returned the IBM and NEC units when it became clear that we weren't going to be doing business with their components. We kept the Alchemy board (about $2,000 worth) to develop the product (www.omnilux.net) --- we've bought lots of AMD components since then.

So, I guess the point of my rant is -- please, don't sample unless you intend to generate more business for the manufacturers with the samples!

[joelkfla]

I feel the need to defend myself here.

I want to make it clear that I purchased the reader. Given that Maxim made (I assume) a nice profit on that, I didn't feel dirty about requesting a few samples of the "jellybeans."

I did not lie when requesting the samples. I listed the reason as "making Segway keys", and I did not use a phony company name. I thought if Maxim was only interested in supplying samples to OEM's, then their engineers would simply deny requests without a company name.

I requested a sample of the smaller memory iButton to see if it would work as a Segway key. As it turned out, my reader was DOA, and it was several months before I got it replaced, by which time I had misplaced the samples, so I just re-programmed my black key. I have since found the samples, but I haven't gotten around to making more keys.

I shall endeavor to try burning a key onto the smaller-memory iButton and report back whether there are any problems with it.

joelk