ALMOST made it to work

[jkeegan]

Today was a big day for me.. I've owned my Segway (i180) for about 3-4 weeks now, and I've brought it into work (in my SUV) many many times, but I never made the actual trip ON the Segway. Until this morning.

I live in Methuen, MA, and I work in Chelmsford, MA.. Via back roads, it's 18.4 miles. Since I have the Saphron Lithium-ion batteries, I was hoping I'd be able to make it the entire 18.4 miles (since theoretically it's supposed to be able to go 24 miles). I made it almost all the way to work, then the battery died about a 4-minute-walk from work, so I pulled it the rest of the way.
(I'd say I missed it by about 300 yards).

I left my house at 6:15am, and got to work around 8:45am.

VERY cool. I originally thought I'd only try this once or twice per summer but I could almost see doing this once a week, if I got that dying battery problem solved. I may try going home on the yellow key instead of the red one. Depends on how fast I was actually going (I'll figure that out later - I kept a record of where I was at what times, etc).

Very early on I realized that the side laptop bag ( http://shop.segway.com/detail.aspx?ID=57 ) has serious problems.. After every bumpy sidewalk section, it'd drag on the wheel.. I took out the shoulder strap, put it through the carrying handle, and lashed it around the segway's handlebar, and that did the trick from that point on.

The big problem now is that I have to let the battery charge for 10 hours here at work before leaving, which I can't really skimp on because I didn't even make it to work with a full battery.. It's 9am now, so if I leave at 7pm, I'll get home around 9:30pm, when it'll be dark..

Maybe it'll be charged by 6pm. :)

Anyway, very fun..
..Jeff (up WAY earlier than he usually is)

p.s. Here's what google maps recommends as driving directions (so these take the highway.. that's a totally different route than I took). It DOES show just how far away the two points are, though:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=12+Br...27461&t=k&hl=en

I hope to create a Google Earth route of my trip..

[Deviant]

I recommend just using your red key, but travelling at a more leisurely pace. That's the best way to get more mileage. Using a more limiting key may cause the speed limiter to kick in, which will consume more energy bucking you back.

Considering how far you made it, I'm sure that a slower pace will get you all the way. I personally wouldn't stand for a 2 to 3 hour trek, though. I'm too impatient.

[Mr_Laurenzano]

..."Slow and steady wins the race"... yea thats the ticket.
have a great day.


Segway-
Half the speed of a car,
Twice as Smart.

[panderso]

Anyplace along the way you can stop and shop/Starbucks/chat and plug your HT in to get some additional quick charge in the batteries?

[jkeegan]

Bad URL.. Maybe this one will work (again, not my route, but shows distance):
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=12+Brookside+Ct,+Methuen+MA+to+100+Apollo+D rive,+Chelmsford+MA&spn=0.207109,0.327135&t=k&hl=en

I'd wondered about the same thing with the red key vs yellow.. I certainly wasn't leaning forward over the handlebar with red because I was deliberately trying to avoid the speed limiter kicking in from what I'd read here.. Maybe I'll use yellow for a bit to remind myself just how leisurely I need to go, then switch to red to make sure it doesn't kick in.

As for places to stop. there are Dunkin Donuts'es all along the route, but I don't know how someone'd feel about me plugging in.. probably less of a problem at Starbucks, but there aren't any in my direct path.

There was one big hill that I went up/down that I think I can avoid, but I'm left wondering if it will gain me much, since the descent was supposed to partially charge the batteries up anyway.. I'm sure I'd gain something, I just don't know how much.

Anyone have any guesses how much the last hour or so matters for the charge? If I let it charge 10 hours, it'll probably be dark when I get home. Worst case my wife will meet me somewhere to eat and we'll throw it in the trunk..

I just turned it on to see how much it had charged since 8:45am (5 hrs) and it showed a red screen with beep BEEP beep BEEP.. gonna look that up right now.. :o

..Jeff

[LiketoWalk]

Fully discharging your battery like that will probably shorten its life. Once it's dead, you get to spend $1,400 for a replacement.

[jkeegan]

The beep was because I still had the charge cable plugged in when I tried turning it on. Again: doh.

Nice that they have the manuals in PDF format online.. Printing out pages 15-17,25,28-36 now (with all of the obscure status displays, etc)

..Jeff

[poohbear]

Is one direction more up/down hill? You should get better distance if there's more downhill.

-poohbear
http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~khartman/poohseg.gif

[Tarkus]

quote:Originally posted by poohbear

Is one direction more up/down hill? You should get better distance if there's more downhill.

-poohbear
http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~khartman/poohseg.gif


my thoughts also.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
See the original Tarkus for yourself.
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[Dragan]

Jeff, the discharge rates with Lithiums is far more linear that the NiMH batteries. Where the Nickels will sit for a long time showing no change, then suddenly drop off (think "plateau") the lithiums will discharge in more of a straight line. The suggestion of dropping your speed a bit, accelerting/deccelerating less aggresively will all help with the extending of range. Also, it's really worthwhile to check you tire pressure. If it's down even a couple of pounds it'll reduce your range.
Wayne

Segway of Alberta - Calgary
www.mysegway.ca

[voiceguy]

Jeff,

Sounds like a fun route!

In any event, my 1.5 cents....

I have indeed found that slower, more graceful starts and stops -- especially starts -- seem to extend the range a good bit.

Also, although you do get re-charge on a downhill, I would think that the mechanism wouldn't contain perfect efficiency.

Thus, for instance, if one had a moderate to large hill situation where the downhill portion was 10% greater than the uphill portion, I'd guess that there might still be more battery drain than if one were to go around the hill.

If the situation includes winding type roads -- and/or it's a real steep motha -- the actual distance traveled would potentially be more than staying on level terrain and "going round the mountain."

In any event, when trying to conserve power (if you were "gunning the throttle" from time to time) I'd say try slower starts and I think you may make it all the way to the office no problem!

Voiceguy

"Every journey of a thousand feet ... begins with but a single lean forward..."

Corporate and commercial voices www.isdnvoices.com

[W9GFO]

quote:Originally posted by jkeegan

I may try going home on the yellow key instead of the red one.

I think using a yellow key [u]speed</u> would help, but use the http://www.wingnut.com/images/redkey-web-logo-100px.gif (http://theredkey.wingnut.com). Otherwise you will be hitting the speed limiter more often.

Rich H

Red Key logo used without permission.

The Un-Official Segway Battery FAQ
http://www.spinfoot.com/SegwayBatteryFAQ.html

[KSagal]

You may be too green yet, but it is time for cruise control... I'll get to that in a sec...

First off, I agree with everyone else, do not use the yellow key but do reduce your speed by a few miles per hour...

If you do reduce your average speed from say, 11 mph to 7 or 8 mph (Keeping it out of speed limiter, it will drop your average speed by 20 or 30% and therefore increase your glide time by the same 20 or 30%. Plan for it...

I have a bike speedo on my machine. I live here in Wilmington. (Click on my name to the left and send me an e-mail) I'd be happy to help you install one, and that will give you a better way to monitor your progress, both in miliage and speed. Once you have it installed, you can plan and calculate way points that mark your progress. A shortcut to all this is portable GPS.

On a long trip, hills should equal out, ups and downs, in my opinion, relative to altitude. If Chelmsford has a higher altitude, to work is relatively more up hill than down. If Methuen is higher, the opposite is true. I believe that Methuen has the river and is closer to the ocean, so my guess is that it has a lower mean altitude than Chelmsford. The ride home should be more effecient than to work...

AND now for the Sagal-cruise control...

If you stand with feet out near the gear boxes, and centered on the center point of gravity, a slight lean forward will give you movement... This is segway 101.

Most people do not stand that way, with toes even. A comfortable and stable stance will often have feet about shoulder width apart and your primary foot forward. I has been my experience that most people are either left or right footed as they are left or right handed. If you stand with your primary foot forward from your other foot, usually it is only a few inches forward, maybe 1/3 the size of your foot.

If you stand with one foot slightly in front of the other, in addition to leaning forward, you shift your weight slightly to one foot or the other to vary your speed...

I suspect that with such a long glide, you were shifting your feet around anyway...

If you experiment with your stance, and do not stop yourself from having one foot forward, you will find a position that is moving a consistant speed that is not an obvious lean forward stance... By having one foot trailing, you can break quickly by shifting weight to the rear leg.

I don't glide that far because of my older batteries, but I do shift speed from the hip (Weight to one leg or the other) as often as I do from my ankles. (Lean forward)

I know this is a long post, but you will have a long time to consider it the next time you glide to or from work...



Karl Ian Sagal

Each road you travel should be just a bit better for having had you pass.

[yessir]

Thanks for the info, Jeff. Now we know much more about the Li batteries. I think you have a record for a one way commute that will stand for quite some time. I would have thought a 12-mile max commute. Two and a half hours running at speed is remarkable; this should make the Segway much more practical in the business world too.

[luckie]

So what happened on the way home?

Looking forward to hearing more... :)

----
Douglas B. Luckie, Ph.D.
Cystic Fibrosis Research Lab
Department of Physiology and Lyman Briggs School of Science
Michigan State University
http://surf.to/msucf
http://35.9.122.184/blinky.gif

[Tarkus]

He may still be glide'n.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________
See the original Tarkus for yourself.
http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/E/elp_tarkus.html

[JohnM]

FWIW
Altitude at:
12 Brookside Ct, Methuen - 159'
100 Apollo Dr, Chelmsford - 142'
The one unavoidable descent/climb on the route is the Merrimack River valley. The river's average altitude between the dams at Lawrence and Lowell is a flat 43'.



JohnM
Anything worth doing for 2 hours is 10 times more worthwhile if done for 20 hours.
RUSA #235

[jkeegan]

Will post details soon.. Wanted to record these URLs somewhere after 5 minutes of work (didn't see JohnM's answer yet):

Home (topo):
http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=42.768246&long=-71.18374&scale=11&theme=Topo&width=4&height=3&dot=Yes

Work (topo):
http://mapper.acme.com/?lat=42.598292&long=-71.328739&scale=10&theme=Topo&width=4&height=3&dot=Yes

[jkeegan]

Ok.. Haven't had time to reply for a while, but I carved out a few minutes..

The drive home had its ups and downs. The first good bit of news is that I made it home the entire distance, with battery life to spare (flashing one bar).

Things I changed:
1) Accelerated much slower
2) Rode much slower
3) Left my laptop at work
4) Took one shortcut in the center of Lowell
5) Instead of taking these two roads (Methuen St/Lowell St) to avoid Rt 110, I took Rt 110. Methuen St/Lowell St was a big hill. There's a waste treatment plant on 110, but luckily it wasn't running so I didn't have to endure any horrible smell (which I'd been worried about)

The downsides including arriving home in the dark, feeling like I wasn't enjoying my Segway enough on the slower speed, and the main one - Rt 110's sidewalk is 100% covered with bottles.. about half of those were broken before I got there, and the rest were broken soon after. Needless to say I avoided the sidewalk, but that meant I was in the breakdown lane of oncoming traffic on a busy winding road along the river. (My tires are fine, but I stopped to check them more than once). I won't be doing 110 again, even if it means I have to walk my Segway 200 yards at the end of the trip.

Haven't repeated the trip yet, but I wanted to last week.. Next time I see the weather report showing all sun on a day that I can do it, I'll try again. Very fun.. This time I'll leave at 5:30am, if not earlier.

After this post I'll post again including the URL of a Google Earth path showing my entire route, so anyone with Google Earth can see what my trip looked like. Google Earth is free, very fun, and only needs a PC with a good graphics card and broadband/dsl.

..Jeff

[jkeegan]

Ok, here's a Google Earth path of my entire trip. If you have Google Earth installed from:

http://earth.google.com/

then click the following URL, which should launch Google Earth.. Then click the Play button (a standard right-pointing play arrow under the Places panel on the left) and it will fly you along the entire route I took:

http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/download.php?Number=70552

The thread I posted this in on the keyhole BBS was:
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/70552/page/0

This being my first Google Earth post, I'd be interested to hear if anyone was able to successfully see the route, and what you thought.

..Jeff

[cmonkey]

Wow, that's really impressive! Now I REALLY want the Lion batteries! Ive been playing with earth google for a while and never knew you could do mapping like that.

I love my magic carpet!

[fredkap]

Jeff,

Your Google Earth posting is incredibly amazing. Previously, I had only used the feature to show my home and office. How do you load all of the info, what type of GPS etc? One of the things that are great about this chat site is the things you learn from the other posters that each bring their unique skills to this board.

Thanks,

Fred

[jkeegan]

quote:Originally posted by cmonkey

I love my magic carpet!

Wow.. How funny is it that that sentence is ambiguous in this context! I'm not totally sure which is your carpet - Google Earth's map flying, or your Segway. :)

[jkeegan]

quote:Originally posted by fredkap

Your Google Earth posting is incredibly amazing. Previously, I had only used the feature to show my home and office. How do you load all of the info, what type of GPS etc? One of the things that are great about this chat site is the things you learn from the other posters that each bring their unique skills to this board.

I haven't purchased a GPS unit yet.. (I plan to get a wrist-based one I can strap onto the handlebars).. When you DO have a GPS unit, Google Earth *Plus* (which costs $20 for a year's subscription) will let you import GPS data straight from the unit (I haven't done it yet so I have no idea what the interface is like).

What I did (which I believe you can do with the free version of Google Earth) is create a path (Add -&gt; Path) and draw the whole path out by hand.. (their UI needs improvement.. clicking and drawing makes a free-form map which isn't what you want.. instead you click one point at a time, drawing out the road, etc).

In this case I knew my route by heart (I'd memorized what I was going to do - I was worried about distance (rightfully so)) so I entered it by hand.. Ultimately it'll be way easier (I imagine) to dump it from my GPS and see what random path I took on a given day (you know, the 1 or 2 times that I ever try doing that). :)

[Jman44]

Wow that is quite a distance you traveled, thats putting the seg to use. :)

[jkeegan]

Made it!!

This morning I went from home to work, and made it the entire way! Even better, I still used the LowellSt/MethuenSt hill that I'd used that morning (that I don't want to give up, since the alternative road is covered in broken bottles).

The ONLY difference this time from my initial morning trip was that I didn't have my laptop bag with me - I left it at work last night. I didn't try driving slow, I didn't worry too much about acceleration.. I still had fun, I still went a good speed, and I made it to my desk.

:D

The only sad part is that when I stopped to talk to two cops for about 30 minutes, I couldn't give them a ride because I was low on power, but they seemd to understand. :(

Left the house at 7:33am, got to my desk at work at 10:13am, and had stopped twice (once at Dunkin Donuts to get iced coffee, and once to talk to those two cops).

My wife is picking me up later since I promised I'd be home early tonight, but I'm very glad I could make it the entire trip. Now let's hope my battery doesn't start going downhill such that I can't do that in the future. :o




..Jeff

[luckie]

Hey Jeff,

Way to go. Your commute to and from work is quite an adventure. You likely already thought of this, but to get a full charge you could leave your Segway plugged in at work overnight and drive it home the next day.

Doug

----
Douglas B. Luckie, Ph.D.
Cystic Fibrosis Research Lab
Department of Physiology and Lyman Briggs School of Science
Michigan State University
http://surf.to/msucf
http://35.9.122.184/blinky.gif

[MagiMike]

Jeff Keegan.
I have to tell you this. You are my hero.
I admire all the education you are doing over on the TIVO forum despite some of the doubting thomas types who "just don't get it (Segway FUN)"
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=250528&highlight=Segway